Chris Armold's comments on Facebook

[AgentAppleseed]

I didnt say Arnold was wrong, I said that what he says doesnt prove anything, nor are the cards stacked in his favor, as you claim! You said earlier that his word was good, irrespective of the fact he has something against Burroughs, Halt, and Penniston. Well in my book, thats a ridiculous thing to say and if thats true, and he does have a grudge, well that makes him biased, but sure bring him on anyway, Im not going to judge a guy Ive never met, Well see what he has to say!

[AgentAppleseed]

PuddlePirate, in your opinion, Arnolds word, along with what you claim to be a lack of evidence, is good enough for you to accept that nothing happened, or at least that there was no craft. Thats o.k with me. Thats your opinion. Thats fine! I dont agree. End of. The part that bothered me, is that you claim earlier that irrespective of whether or not Arnold has a grudge against Burroughs, his opinion is good. I dont buy that. Thats what got my back up, because if he has a grudge against any of the witnesses, then hes biased. Thats what I had a problem with. I dont have a problem with the fact that you believe there is no evidence. Thats your opinion, like I said.

[arvd]

Blimey, this forum is on fire !

[Frank]

Armold was not there at the moments the other witnesses say they saw something, so his opinion is as good as anybody’s.

Excerpts from http://ufoupdateslist.com/1997/sep/m07-029.shtml

On the first night (25/26) he arrived after the fact:

“after getting a negative reply from the British Cops [he called them after 04:00], my flight chief asked me if I wanted to head out to Woodbridge to meet up with Burroughs and see what was up.
(…) [so he arrived after 04:00, when the object was long gone] There was absolutely nothing in the woods. (…) [and found an alleged landing site in the dark] Eventually we found three depressions in the ground, about the diameter of a coffee can in a triangular pattern. However, there was no damage to trees or scorch marks, or any damage to any plant life in the area. We noted the location of the impressions and departed the area.”

The night he was out in the woods with Halt was the second night (26/27), when nothing of interest happened:

“Halt essentially said he planned on coming out to the site in the evening [following his night with Burroughs, i.e., the evening of 26 December] and one way or another several of us said we'd keep him company. The guys I remember were John Burroughs, Adrian Bustamante, and me. I think another officer joined Halt, I believe it was Lt Bruce England.
(…)
I brought a camera with me and I think Halt had a tape recorder. We were out there for hours and someone noticed some lights in the distance. While they often seemed to be very close in reality as we tried to approach them we discovered they were very far away. [nothing of interest happened that night]
(…)
In the end I would say we were in the woods for 4 or 5 hours. The next morning we went home and "B" flight went on break (our three days off). Three days later we returned to work [so Armold was not there on the night of 27/28, the famous Halt night].


Ted Conrad confirms that Halt went out the second night (26/27) and nothing of interest happened that night. So I can fully imagine this is a non-event in Armold’s perception.


Further, Armold confirms that radiation levels were measured after the first night:

"In the morning several of us were asked if we would return to the area to point out the depressions to some folks who I believe were from environmental health. They did have some type of instrument for detecting radiation and I believe they did detect some measure of radiation, however I don't think it was a significant amount."

And he gives an interesting description of Halt’s character:

"I would say he rode with me 10 or 12 times during my time at RAF BW. I considered him a very friendly, relaxed individual and very down to earth for an officer."

.. not the type of guy who confuses stars for UFO’s ..
We now know Halt had already been in the woods for several hours on the night of 26/27. The stars, light masts, and the lighthouse were already there that night! Yet he found nothing of interest .. strange ...

Given all this I would say Halt's tape is pretty convincing evidence!

[stephan]

@ puddle, AgentAppleseed,

it's Armold - not Arnold. I don't kow how often I wrote the name wrong until I finally noticed how it's written

I will pass on the following from Armold:

“I was also out there the night of the recording, I took photographs (they were crap, just an occasional spot of light in a black background*)... England, Steffens and others are not interested in talking about this as the fact is there is nothing to talk about.

[...]

England, Steffens, and the hundred other people who were working that night will tell you the same thing. It's all bullshit. I'm not in contact with Bruce and he made it very clear to me that he has zero interest in this non-issue.”

Lt Buran, who was in charge at Central Security Control on the night of the first sighting, is of the same opinion as Armold, but he puts it more politely. I’ll let Buran tell you in his own words now that he is on this Forum.

so we have at least five people - Conrad, Armold, Buran, Steffens, England - who were there on the nights in question and who either vehemently deny, contradict or simply ignore the claims made by the protagonists of this case. Then we have HUNDREDS of other base personnel who were stationed there at the time and who mysteriously have no interest in events that were of such an extraordinary nature. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they would have popped up in the meantime ? Not necessarily as witnesses but as people who would verify that the stories we hear of today where heard of then, on the base itself. But they simply don't care! Imo that behavior would be illogical if there had really happened something ''out of this world''.

[Frank]

Stephan,

See my previous post: Armold was not there on the third night and missed the events on the first night - there is no doubt about that. He simply was not there when it happened.

The case was compartmentalized, and if you were a witness and had guys like Armold as your collegues, would you tell everybody you just saw a UFO ..? Not unless you like to be called a goof-ball ..

If you were a witness now and saw how the witnesses that did come out are called liars and goof-balls, and saw all the discussions and debunking efforts that haven been going on for almost 30 years now (even among the witnesses themselves), and realized they will probably go on for another 30 years, and saw how certain witnesses tell stories you can't remember, ... would you step in?

[stephan]

If you were a witness now and saw how the witnesses that did come out are called liars and goof-balls, and saw all the discussions and debunking efforts that haven been going on for almost 30 years now (even among the witnesses themselves), and realized they will probably go on for another 30 years, and saw how certain witnesses tell stories you can't remember, ... would you step in?

yep, definitely. With an event allegedly that big I definitely would come forward. However, if you asked me the same question and I knew that nothing extraordinary happened I would definitely not.

[puddlepirate]

AgentA: It's worth taking a look at what Buran says on the 81st Facebook page.....Then once you've read his comments perhaps you might like to tell him he's talking rubbish. I'm pretty sure I know what his response will be.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-f ... l&filter=3

[puddlepirate]

For info this is what Buran says:

Skip Buran
I was the shift commander the first night. Then SSgt Penniston had every opportunity to report everything as it happened. There was no pressure to do otherwise. There was no panicked call for assistance, no incredulous description of a...n unknown object, nothing. They went, looked, and came back. No one was traumatized by the event. No one requested medical help. The Suffolk Constabulary constables who responded also found.....nothing. Folks, this is a non-event, at best a hoax, and is being blown way out of proportion by people who may have self serving motives. It's too bad dissenting opinions don't last long here.

[AgentAppleseed]

Its interesting PuddlePirate, but Im not at all convinced.

[stephan]

Skip Buran
[...] It's too bad dissenting opinions don't last long here.

does this indicate that Armold did not delete his own posts ?

[IanR]

...and all his posts have now gone.

It was a pretty fair bet they would be taken off so I captured them before they went as I knew you wouldn't want to miss them. You can see the page(s) here in PDF format
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/Justice%2 ... cebook.pdf

This was the page as it stood shortly before 6 pm Saturday night Nov 13. Armold might even had added something else after I took this capture but by then I'd gone out. I can assure you he did not remove them himself!

Ian

[stephan]

... he also said it:

It's interesting that I was invited to join this group yet for some reason my posts seem to disappear.

[IanR]

... he also said it:

It's interesting that I was invited to join this group yet for some reason my posts seem to disappear.

I posted the message (or one of the messages) he was referring to on page 1 of this thread – you can find it towards the bottom under the title "FACEBOOK PAGE –– THE MISSING MESSAGE".

Ian

[Ignis Fatuus]

Classic. The band continues to play as the ship takes on water. Beautiful.
A message from Chris:

Re: Help us set the record straight
The record is straight. Nothing happened other than a few lights in the woods. There is nothing to correct. The ball is absolutely in the court of the liars. I looked at the website you pointed me towards. Most of the information contained in the "evidence" tab is not evidence. It's information that fails to confirm or deny anything. There is not one piece of evidence, not one, that confirms the presence of an alien ship. No radar signature, no heat, no blast zone, no footprints, no alien soda cans or cigarette butts. All you ahve are a few guys who are trying to get their 15 minutes of fame on the backs of a lie. C'mon you people, if you want your UFO hobby to be credible you MUST toss out the clearly bogus events and this is one of them. To say this is "England's Roswell" is to admit that very little of substance actually happened at Roswell because nothing happened in the woods at Rendelsham except for a few Air Force cops stomping around in the woods. By the way, NO ONE who was in teh forest on either night was armed. We NEVER took firearms off the base, not even when we went downtown to pickup American's who had been arrested by the British Police. These guys are frauds and for those of you who are serious about UFO investigations it's your responsibility to call BULLSHIT on frauds not empower them remaining silent and not challenging them. Can you (or anyone) tell me ONE PIECE of no-shit solid evidence that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there was possibly a UFO in the Rendlesham Forest?

[Admin]

Thanks for the PDF, Ian.

I can't find Armold's latest messages, I assume they have been deleted from the Facebook page. It appears that some of you are in contact with Armold. If so, he is welcome to join up here and say what he thinks without his messages being deleted.

Buran too. If you're out there, join up. Make a statement, short or long. I will not delete any posts without good reason.

Looks like Kevin Conde is back on the scene too. He does not mention the hoax he once claimed to have pulled.

Besides the well known names like Warren, Pennsiton and Halt there were others there. There was a whole squadron. I worked for Bruce Englund. Bobby Ball was the security flight chief opposite me. I was almost certainly the Woodbridge patrol or the LE flight chief the night of Halt’s expedition. All I remember was ...the laughing about the people seeing UFO’s. It was not treated seriously at all. You can throw all the rocks, make all the claims you want, belittle the non-believers until you are blue in the face. It does not change the fact that it was a non-event when it happened, and the stories of the believers are the ones that have morphed over time. I’ve been married to the same woman for going on 37 years. She also retired as a SMSgt, and was with me at Bentwaters/Woodbridge. She does not remember one word about UFO’s being mentioned while we were in England.

so we have at least five people - Conrad, Armold, Buran, Steffens, England - who were there on the nights in question and who either vehemently deny, contradict or simply ignore the claims made by the protagonists of this case.

• Buran's statements are important IMO. He was not in the forest, but he was in radio contact with the witnesses. However, the claims he now makes disagree with his initial witness statement of Penniston reporting a definite object. Who's changing their stories now?
• Englund has never gone on the record. Several others have yet to. It does not mean he "ignores" the incident.
• Steffens again has never gone on the record. It would not be wise to put words in his mouth.
• Armold went out afterwards - Frank posted his original statements. Enough said.

[stephan]

I can't find Armold's latest messages, I assume they have been deleted from the Facebook page. It appears that some of you are in contact with Armold. If so, he is welcome to join up here and say what he thinks without his messages being deleted.

I gave him the link to this forum (replied to one of his comments on fb) yesterday and told him that some people would like to hear what he has to say.

[Admin]

Thank you, Stephan.

I need to add that I have not been able to confirm Skip Buran is who he says he is. I also find it strange that Conde, Buran and Armold all simply appear on the Facebook group's page within a matter of hours of each other. Tread carefully.

[stephan]

I have no doubt they are who they claim they are. The reason why they are all turning up all of a sudden would certainly be the attention the case gets at the moment (30th aniversary). To me it looks like they see an opportunity here to both put things straight and reach as many UFO maniacs as possible at the same time. As you said yourself, some of them certainly don't just ignore the whole issue and followed it in the background...

[stephan]

I do not see why Halt should have gone twice to the forest to investigate. Armold doesn't mention the dates and I suppose that IF he thought it was the next evening then this was due to the fact that nothing had happened on the night of 26/27th. He simply left that day out.

I'll also quote from the document and make a few comments (green) / stress interesting passages:

After midnight, John Burroughs radioed the LE desk and reported he
had seen strange lights in the outside the East Gate on RAF
Woodbridge. I was actually on RAF Lakenheath hanging out at the Law
Enforcement Desk at the time. Burroughs, who liked to draw attention
to himself, often over-reacted to situations and was considered very
unreliable, wanted to know if there were any reports of downed
aircraft.

[...]

In any case, after getting a negative reply from the British Cops,
My flight chief asked me if I wanted to head out to Woodbridge to
meet up with Burroughs and see what was up. I grabbed the back gate
keys, and took the back way to RAF W/B. I met Burroughs at the East
Gate of WB. We left our guns with the guy riding with Burroughs and
drove to the end of the long access road. We left our vehicle and
walked out there.

There was absolutely nothing in the woods. We could see lights in
the distance and it appeared unusual as it was a sweeping light, (we
did not know about the lighthouse on the coast at the time). We also
saw some strange colored lights in the distance but were unable to
determine what they were.

Eventually we found three depressions in the ground, about the
diameter of a coffee can in a triangular pattern. However, there was
no damage to trees or scorch marks, or any damage to any plant life
in the area. We noted the location of the impressions and departed
the area.

the triangular pattern may have simply been coincidence. If you look at the night sky for example you'll find a lot of stars that form a triangular pattern. In fact, whenever you have three points you'll always end up with a triangle if you connect them (exception: they lie in a row)

[...]

In the morning several of us were asked if we would return to the area to
point out the depressions to some folks who I believe were from
environmental health. They did have some type of instrument for
detecting radiation and I believe they did detect some measure of
radiation, however I don't think it was a significant amount.

[...]

Halt essentially said he planned on coming out to the site in the
evening [does not indicate which one] and one way or another several of us said we'd keep him
company. The guys I remember were John Burroughs, Adrian Bustamante,
and me. I think another officer joined Halt, I believe it was Lt
Bruce England, but I'm not absolutely certain and maybe two other
guys (Possibly one named Pennington, just can't remember for sure)
There was however, no army of USAF guys out in the woods.. No fleet
of vehicles, no towed light rigs, just a half-dozen or so of us
stomping around goofing off.

I brought a camera with me and I think Halt had a tape recorder. We
were out there for hours and someone noticed some lights in the
distance. While they often seemed to be very close in reality as we
tried to approach them we discovered they were very far away. Now
don't confuse what Ijust wrote. Little balls of light were not flying
around us or getting closer and flying away. We initially thought
the lights were closer than they actually were.

In the end I would say we were in the woods for 4 or 5 hours. The
next morning we went home and "B" flight went on break (our three
days off). Three days later we returned to work and made fun of
Burroughs for screwing up our radio fun with his bogus UFO sighting.

considering the above it would not make much sense to spend another 4 hours in the woods doing practically the same thing as the night before. Furthermore Halt does not mention he was out there for two consecutive nights - at least not to my knowledge.

[...]

There were no secret debriefings, no threats, no sudden assignments.
Nothing. It was no big deal.

[...]

Let me say categorically that there were no space ships, no flying
saucers, no little green men, no encounters with aliens, nothing of
the sort.

Sadly many UFO enthusiasts seem to have focused more on what they
would sorely love to hear rather than what actually happened.
Unfortunitaly John Burroughs and Col Halt seemed to have recognized
that and took these "believers" for a ride. In any case, I
seriously doubt that what I tell you will have any effect on the
history of the incident.

... and if you look at the whole text you'll find that it's pretty much the same that Armold says now.