Charles Halt, Press release.

[Sacha Christie]

I agree. I'd like to know what exactly it was he say's he saw. So far all we have had is a press release stating it was an ET event. I'm waiting for Gary to get in touch I'll ask him. Hopefully not everyone is being precious over their ideas and theories.

Andrew has a habit of hitting the nail on the head

[Andrew Pike]

Andrew has a habit of hitting the nail on the head

Thanks to all my fans!!

Actually, I had a habit of doing that when I worked for UFO Magazine, poor old Graham Birdsall (the editor) was always asking me how I did it, gave him a few scoops, wrote things in my column which would be big news in the main press a month or so later. Broke the news about ALH 84001 six months before NASA went public, for example. Told him why Ray Santilli could not be trusted, so Graham refused to back the Roswell footage and what have we now discovered!! I just told him it's better to talk to the right people and avoid the sceptics, they live in an isolated little bubble of ignorance.

[Deep Purple]

Problem is most of the skeptics home in one or two details, like a barrister to try and disprove it, and thus discredit all the evidence provided by that witness/ source/ view point. However like a court--- the guilty may get away with it.

[John Burroughs]

Sacha
There is proof that the government could have been up to somthing. When I first saw what I saw I was pretty sure we could not have done it! But we have found they were working on Star Wars they had a plane that could shot lazer to the ground. They had UAF that could have been used they were using EM at the time and there were scientist working at Bentwaters and Martshalm Heath. They moved some of the Cobra mist people to Bentwaters and look at the sat light dishes just outside Woodbridge. The NSA was at the nest and look at Zickler bio and what he has done. Chuck DeCaro was looking at the Marconi company and EM and look where he has now works. Then there is what has come out under hypnois plus what the Russian were doing to include Tesla Balls. The thing is we all need to get together and talk about what happened. We need to get tested for Radition it can be done. OSI and Zickler need to answer some questions. This needs to go before Congress and Col Halt has helped that by saying we had a ET encounter and also that there was a cover up. He would know if there was a cover up! I understand how people feel and its great that we all look at things differently. My only point is this you had to be there to understand and the thing thats the hardest is being told what we saw by someone who was not there! Getting as many people together to talk about it is the most important thing to include the people who live around the base who also had there encounters!

[IanR]

Ian R's lighthouse theory that proposed Orfordness lighhouse as the primary cause for Penniston's, Burrough's and Cabansag's excursion into the forest has been proven to be incorrect because it is not possible to see the lighthouse from east gate.

I have never suggested the lighthouse was the prime cause of P, B and C's excursion into the forest, nor have I ever suggested that it is visible from East Gate, and I don't understand why you would think otherwise if you have read what I have written. I'm sure we went over this at least once before last year, but clearly to no avail as it's evident that you are still going round in a circle of incomprehension.

[John Burroughs]

Ian
Answer my question why can't you even consider it could have been some kind of Military operation or test??

[IanR]

Ian
Answer my question why can't you even consider it could have been some kind of Military operation or test??

I have considered the possibility but have rejected it because there is no evidence for it.

[IanR]

Ian,
RE: the two British suits who paid a visit to Vince Thurkettle in his forest dwelling, a day or so after the incidents. This was before Halt sent his memo to the MOD - so how did they know !?
Were they astronomers?

More likely they were local journalists who had heard about it from the local police. This is a very normal line of communication in local newspapers. Indeed, once the police had been informed it would have been surprising if some local journo had *not* picked up on the report (Unusual lights seen over Christmas? Great!). Had there been a real story, those guys should have got the local gossip at the time. Evidently they found nothing, because no story was published. Adrian Frearson has combed the local newspapers for signs of any news items - he will correct me if my memory is faulty but I don't think he found anything until after the News of the World report appeared in 1983.

And did the locals complain to the base about the supposed disturbances over Christmas 1980? As the British base commander at the time, Don Moreland, told Dr David Clarke when he investigated the case some years ago: "I knew many of the local farmers and we didn't talk about that [the UFO incident], we talked about his carrots or the water from the runways flooding his fields, or American airmen making a mess of his fields or smoking dope, but we never talked about that."

[AdrianF]

Had there been a real story, those guys should have got the local gossip at the time. Evidently they found nothing, because no story was published. Adrian Frearson has combed the local newspapers for signs of any news items - he will correct me if my memory is faulty but I don't think he found anything until after the News of the World report appeared in 1983.

Ian, you are correct, well sort of. On 27th December a small, single paragraph article appeared in both the Evening Star and the East Anglian Daily Times. The article, which was identical in both papers, explained that reports of UFO sightings over Christmas had been confirmed as being caused by a meteorite. I don't have the scans with me, so I'm going from memory and notes here. I checked the papers through a few months following the incident, but found no other mention of UFO sightings in the area.

On the men in black, it could be equally likely that they were local CID casually following up on the police reports, before hitting the greasy spoon.

[AdrianF]

Therefore, if it cannot be proved that no helicopters were flying or hovering over the field - and to simply say I think it's hilarious to suggest that a Col and his men couldn't recognize a helicopter with a search light on right over them. ON AN AIR BASE???!! Gimme a break. is NOT proof, then it cannot be discounted.

This is another differing viewpoint of what happened. Adrian Bustinza has stated in interviews that helicopters were up at some point during the incident. So were they or not?

[IanR]

Adrian Bustinza has stated in interviews that helicopters were up at some point during the incident. So were they or not?

Halt has always said not. He was specifically asked this question in his online interview with Salley Rayl back in 1997. This is the transcript, as sent to me some years ago by James Easton:

>>
HALT: There were approximately 120 to 125 A-10s. There were I'm
trying to think, about 12, 14 C-130s, several H-3s it was in a rescue
squadron, plus the A-10 squadrons. The A-10 squadrons were done for
the holidays. Not flying, doing any night flying. The rescue squadron
was done. In fact, the rescue commander at that time, a good personal
friend of mine, really chastised me for not calling him immediately,
cause he said I could have gotten a chopper in the air within an hour
or two. I kind of don't believe that because, you know, you'd have
trouble finding a crew and get one free-flighted, but there was no
aircraft activity. In fact, the tower at Woodbridge was down.

RAYL: Well, it was Christmas time, too.

HALT: Yeah. It was Christmas time. In fact, the tower at Bentwaters
was manned only for an emergency. In other words, there was a standby
crew up there, but it was not active.

RAYL: So, there were no jets, helicopters or any other aircraft,
American aircraft, that were scrambled at that time.

HALT: There were none that were scrambled from Bentwaters, and I knew
of nothing in the air at that time.
<<

[AdrianF]

Thanks Ian, I don't remember seeing this part of the interview before, but do remember a statement to this effect.

[puddlepirate]

But Halt's response only applies to American, i.e USAF, aircraft based at Bentwaters / Woodbridge. It is not impossible but probably highly unlikely that he would have had knowledge of any British, either Army or RAF, aircraft movements. Plus there were many more airbases in the east Anglian region than Bentwaters/Woodbridge. Therefore, just because the twin bases were virtually closed for the holidays, as was Lakenheath, it does not mean that all RAF stations were closed nor does it mean Mildenhall was closed.

Let us not forget that Bruni mentioned a substantial increase in high precedence 'flash overide' telephone traffic (flash overide being a function of the Autovon system, apparently and flash being the highest precedence for signal messages); nor should we forget the number of personnel and vehicles assigned to the forest. If there was in increase in telephone traffic there was probably also a significant increase in signal message traffic. A substantial increase in comms traffic, either telephone or signals, originating at a time when the bases were all but closed down and with no aircraft movements, suggests there was a bit of a flap going on. As does the off base deployment of a large (anything from between 40 to 70+, apparently) number of USAF personnel and vehicles. The personnel deployed to the forest took with them a number of lightalls and you don't go looking for 'odd lights' with floodlights. In fact, if you didn't know what you were looking for and wanted to keep your night vision intact, you wouldn't use floodlights at all. Then of course, there is the question of the RAF Watton radar tapes (film?) that unknown US persons, allegedly NSA or similar, wanted to see.

[Wolf]

HALT: There were none that were scrambled from Bentwaters, and I knew
of nothing in the air at that time.

Does this mean there was something scrambled from Woodbridge? just being picky. Quote should also say PRE-FLIGHT.

V/R

Wolf

[IanR]

Does this mean there was something scrambled from Woodbridge? just being picky.

Since Halt says Woodbridge tower was down I suppose it's understood that nothing would be scrambled from there. But as PP correctly says, this does not preclude British choppers from elsewhere. Someone would need to spend a lot of time going through the MoD file to see if they looked into this possibility, but their 'investigation' barely scratched the surface so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

Quote should also say PRE-FLIGHT.

Makes sense. Not sure who compiled the transcript - possibly Salley Rayl herself.

[IanR]

Actually, of course, the discussion about helicopters is irrelevant because we already know that nothing was flying in that area at the time of Halt’s night out. Halt called Easter Radar at RAF Watton repeatedly while the event was going on but they saw nothing. As I think you know, Adrian, a Radio 4 reporter called Gerry Northam interviewed the duty officer that night, squadron leader Derek Coumbe, back in 2003. The discussion went like this:

>>
DC: Absolutely nothing at all in the area at all at that time.

GN: If it had been an object from outer space would you have seen it?

DC: Any return of an object moving in space in that area would certainly have shown up on this radar. The radar had extremely good coverage for the Bentwaters and Woodbridge area. Aircraft taking off from either of those bases would show up within half a mile of the end of the runway.

GN: Was Watton an important radar centre?

DC: Watton was extremely important from the United States Air Force point of view in that it controlled nearly every airfield run by the USAF in East Anglia including half a dozen RAF airfields as well. 90 percent of all the traffic on the military base at Watton was USAF military aircraft.

GN: What was the smallest object that you would be able to paint?

DC: Well usually it was so sensitive that it could pick up large flocks of birds for example, and even small weather balloons showed up quite frequently.

GN: So something coming from outer space could not have been missed?

DC: I can't see how it could have been missed at all. It would have certainly shown up.
<<

snip

>>
GN: The story is that American intelligence came to investigate this evidence and took it away afterwards. Is that right?

DC: It would well be that the USAF or their investigators could have come to the base. But this was a normal occurrence after any type of incident with American aircraft. They would come to the base in conjunction with the American liaison officer who was permanently based at RAF Watton to scrutinise tapes or even view the films from the radar.

GN: So if they did that was nothing unusual?

DC: It was nothing unusual at all.

GN: So the idea that the spooks were coming to seize evidence that was so dramatic that it couldn't be made public, what do you make of that claim?

DC: Absolute nonsense. Nothing was ever taken away, nothing was ever forwarded to anybody in any shape or form. If they came to investigate they came purely to view what we had as our own holdings and they would have taken down any evidence which they wished to see, but they certainly wouldn't have taken anything away with them.
<<

snip

>>
GN: What was the tone of the phone calls that came through [from Bentwaters]?

DC: They were very jumpy and quite panicky. In fact the first call I remember initially was just to scrutinise the radar and was there any unusual return in the area. However subsequently it went on a bit and they went on to be a bit panicky as if to imply that there should be something, that we should be seeing something, and really not wanting to take no for an answer. But in the end it sort of calmed down, but there was a bit of jumpiness about the whole situation on the telephone.

GN: When you had the suggestion that you should have a radar trace of something from outer space what went through your mind?

DC: Well nothing really. I couldn't imagine that if there had been anything we wouldn't have seen it and certainly we scrutinised the radar time and time again completely, and kept a watch on it through the whole period when these phone calls were going on and nothing was seen. Nothing at all.
<<

So we have ET craft invisible on radar but drawing attention to themselves by gaily flashing multicoloured lights... Queer folk, these aliens.

Thanks to Dave Clarke for the transcript.

[slipX]

'Queer folk these aliens"

A typical kind of response to anybody who has an open mind about aerial phenomena is that they MUST believe in aliens.

I always approach it from the angle that if credible witnesses give accounts of an incident such as the RFI then it's worth examining all possibilities i.e terrestrial/non-terrestrial, manufactured/natural.

I hope that eventually we can move away from the scenario in that relating to others a story of an unusual aerial sighting automatically elicits the response of he/she believes in 'little green men'.

However I don't think that day will be soon. ho hum.

[puddlepirate]

Ian - many thanks for posting the transcript of the GN/DC interview. This question and the subsequent response is most interesting:

GN: The story is that American intelligence came to investigate this evidence and took it away afterwards. Is that right?

DC: It would well be that the USAF or their investigators could have come to the base. But this was a normal occurrence after any type of incident with American aircraft. They would come to the base in conjunction with the American liaison officer who was permanently based at RAF Watton to scrutinise tapes or even view the films from the radar.

GN: So if they did that was nothing unusual?

DC: It was nothing unusual at all.


And specifically this statement by DC: But this was a normal occurrence after any type of incident with American aircraft.

If a visit from USAF investigators was a normal occurence following an incident with an American aircraft and as it would seem that USAF investigators visited RAF Watton to examine the radar tapes / film, then it has to follow that there must have been an incident with an American aircraft.

Earlier in December 80 - from memory it was Dec 12th - and in response to a request from PM Margaret Thatcher, the USAF agreed to permanently base an SR-71 at Mildenhall as part of Detachment 4, with aircraft rotating on a 20 day basis and its covert missions being directed by the PM. Covert missions had been flown from Mildenhall since April 76 but UK permission was required for each sortie, then in Dec 80 things changed. The aircraft flew covert missions as requested/directed by the PM. It is known that some U2 flights had British pilots. This was, apparently, to get around an agreement which prohibited the USAF from overflying Soviet airspace. Could it be that the SR 71 operating out of Mildenhall also had British pilots and that somehow this might be behind the panic?

Poland was hot at that time so it quite likely that SR 71 missions were being flown to monitor the Soviet response.

It is also known that various radar / EM experiments were being conducted in the Orfordness area, probably from RAF Bawdsey. If you go to RAF Bawdsey today, although the site is mostly deserted, there is still a sign on the guardroom wall whch can be read from the main gate warning contractors and others not to climb above a certain height due to powerful microwave emissions. The first part of the sign actually reads: "Everyone entering these gates is to be aware that a microwave radiation hazard might exist at heights over three metres above the ground".

Not sure how all this fits together or even if it does fit together at all but there seems to be a substantial number of coincidences - covert flights involving SR71 start on a regular basis from mid Dec 80; US investigators (if that is what they were) arrive at RAF Watton; some kind of flap involving USAF personnel that requires they conduct a search with floodlights in Rendlesham forest; an increase in high precedence telephone traffic; claims and counter claims that helos or alleged helos, are conducting a grid search of some kind - or not; odd lights in the forest observed by LE/SP guards; Soviets massing armour on the Polish border and just down the road our chums at RAF Bawdsey are mucking about with microwaves....

[Deep Purple]

I think the quote from DC during the interview says a lot.
"They were very jumpy and quite panicky. In fact the first call I remember initially was just to scrutinise the radar and was there any unusual return in the area. However subsequently it went on a bit and they went on to be a bit panicky as if to imply that there should be something, that we should be seeing something, and really not wanting to take no for an answer"

Think about this, something was causing panic in those young men , who would have been used to a night time airbase with all its lights etc. They didnt call just for fun. If nothing could not been seen on radar , this does not mean nothing was was there, we are entering the era of stealth, which could not easily be seen on radars of the time.
I'm not sure it would have involved an SR71, I never saw one flown but correct me if I'm wrong but one landing or taking off would be very noisy. I've seen Concorde many times and its a lovely loud old girl, sadly missed.
But thinking along the same lines did Have Blue the prototype stealth fighter pay a visit. It was operational by then. What better time to test the Russian ability to detect it, little air traffic fly it out over the USSR border and see what happens. Check whether our radar saw it as well. Its a quiet aircraft and could fly without lights. Land it , take it off and back to the US. Create a UFO flap for anyone who saw something triangular and strange landing.

But something caused panic whether it was a weapons test, covert aircraft landing, or ET really coming to visit

[puddlepirate]

St/DP thanks...

There is some interesting stuff on Have Blue on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Have_Blue

The article states that the two prototypes crashed during testing with the wreckage being buried in the Nevada desert. I came across something elsewhere regarding the next level of prototype (there was another name for that I believe) that said there was only something like five or perhaps six test flights (I could be wrong) then a big gap between testing and production and the test flights were not free flights as such but piggy backs off other aircraft to test surface controls, perhaps a couple where the test aircraft was detached to land on its own to test landing gear and brakes....can't remember the details nor can I find the link to the relevant info. However, a lengthy gap between testing and production is somewhat unusual, surely. Especially if the testing does not include free flights.

It is known that these aircraft had a very angular fuselage in order to deflect radars and sharp angles in anything mechanical be it an aircraft, ship or motor vehicle are stress raisers. The early models of the Comet airliner failed due to the angular windows on the early versions creating stressed areas that eventually failed through metal fatigue, with the result that the aircraft suffered violent decompression when a window blew out. Could it be then, that an ultra-classified prototype of the F117a was being put through its paces in a real world environment, when the airframe or fuselage failed? This would certainly cause a huge flap and most certainly USAF investigators would want to know what was seen on radar...

It was also unstable in all three planes - pitch, roll and yaw - and could only be flown by computer. Although there was quadruple redundancy, flying through intense microwave radiation might not be a good idea. Could it possibly be that it was decided to pit the aircraft against the most advanced radars available, at possibly the quietest time of the year...but with disasterous results. The microwaves either totally wrecked or severely impeded the onboard computers and the aircraft became unstable. The aircraft was of such an advanced, unusual design that anyone not involved in the project and coming across it on the ground, especially the wreckage of one that had crashed, could easily mistake it for an alien craft. The boffins then think it might have been picked up on radar and attacked as an incoming bandit so they check the Watton tapes/film.....I could go on but I won't. But thinking along these lines and balancing that with much of what the witnesses stated plus known activity in the forest and claimed activity on subsequent days, well...it sure seems that quite a few of the pieces fit.

All of this is pure conjecture of course, hardly a shred of evidence to support any of it but from what has been posted of late it looks more and more like an American aircraft was involved somewhere.