The landing site [later general discussion]

[Andrew Pike]

Hi Puddlepirate

I am a qualified astronomer (well astrophysicist if we want to split hairs). This December will mark 40 years of skywatching for me and I can say I have never (yet) seen stars behave in the way the Halt patrol mention in the tape. Yes some details are similar to stars, but not when you look at the bigger picture.

What I have seen during that time are several unconventional nuts and bolts craft (call them UFOs if we like). The top one being the 'Rendlesham type' flying triangle complete with pipes and boxes on five occasions (three of which there were others astronomers with me). It really is as eerie and strange as they say especially when it hovers and crawls over your head at a snail's pace, so slow you feel it will fall out of the sky onto your head!

Now not many astronomers will admit to that one!

I have a lot of time for people who see these things, but exactly what they are I have not decided yet, I'm still looking into it. Having said that, followers of my writings in UFO publications will know that I don't believe they are extraterrestrial.

[Andy]

Andy i had been posted at east gate or down at east gate on patrol at night more times than I can remember over the year and half I had been stationed there. I had never seen anything like that before. Also one more thing Ian please explain the blue light that sent a beame down at Halt's feet and the blue light that flew over my head and shoot past us and went through a pickup truck plus made the lightallls come on. It was not the lighthouse. Give up on that please I to this day can't say if it was man made ie military testing or from somewhere else but it was not the lighthouse or stars or stationary objects. These objects flew at us beamed lights at us lit up a large area and moved up into the sky. It seems everytime somthing moves forword the same people come out and state the same crap with no backup ie what we the people who were out there saw. look at what the military could have been doing to cause this and you will find part of the answer and you can still say it was not ailiens......

I may, and possibly have misinterpreted what was written, and apologies if i have, and please correct me, and don't think i'm being pedantic, or antagonisitic in any way, as i don't know any of you personally, and vice-versa... or would honestly never wish to intentionally offend anyone.... i just enjoy this forum, the debates and the hopes of getting nearer to the truth. However John, in the final part of your post 'look at what the military could have been doing to cause this and YOU WILL FIND PART OF THE ANSWER.' Does this suggest YOU have an answer? If so, why not tell us what you know?

[Observer]

Andy
John has said this several times, Look at what the military might be doing. Its a valid point.
I do know that early Star Wars experiments were being carried out [but not sure where globally] and i also know that the UK was involved in some of the research, Maggie/Regan agreement.
I'm not sure how far down the road the system got to but the Ruskies kicked up over it and that was one of two reasons why it was put onto the back burner.
I don't understand the workings of Star Wars, but if some body could explain with out baffling us with science, it may give us something to work on in respect of John's suspicions.
As we all know from John's posts, he also suggested that some sort of 'beam' weapon experiment may be to blame and he pointed the finger at the BT research centre at Martlesham Heath and Orfordness. We did as a group look into this but came up with nothing.
John also mentioned the spate of British ELECTRONICS scientists around that period who died in mysterious circumstances, one of which worked for a short while at the BTRC.

Of course, none of the above may have any connection to the RFI but we havn't really proved that 100%
well not yet.
Obs

[Dave100]

Thanks for your comments observer to my previous comments on this thread.You write some thought provoking comments on star wars type technology and beam weapons and lots of interesting things written by several people.I'm sure there are some very weird and wonderful experiments that the military get up to and you cant completely discount some involvement in these incidents but I still have a problem of them doing some kind of strange testing during the very peak of the cold war when the base was on alert condition during a holiday period.Also would they keep carrying out some kind of exercise given the panic it created over the three nights when the public too were witness to some of these inexplicable events.I have an open mind but find it terribly hard to accept at this time that it was ultra advanced military activity.
I keep going back to the witness statements,some of the objects split into three or five seperate objects from one object silently and flew off in different directions and of course flying at high speeds and fast right angled turns,I don't think a human could take the g forces that this must have created,so Colonel Halt said they were under intelligent control,but think about this,each object that seperated from one object would surely have its own power source to enable it to fly,personally I find that truly amazing,could the military really have that capability back in 1980?,I simply dont think it possible.You would have thought military hardware would have been tested at somewhere like area 51 or a desert area or out in the ocean not in an English forest but if I'm proved wrong fair enough.
I know its controversial but if witnesses did see non human lifeforms in close proximity to themselves then this would surely rule out Star Wars or beam weapon experiments or any type of black ops.I personally believe witnesses did see something associated with these craft.
As for stars as an explaination,I give up,iv'e been to loads of skywatches and in the forest on clear nights for many hours and have never,ever seen stars behave in such a fashion.
Further still I find it alarming to think that Colonel Halt and his men could have somehow hallucinated to mistake stars for something else over such a long period of time.

[Observer]

Dave
In a way the statements from Halt and Penniston and a few others does put into question the incident was man made. This of course is if they are telling the truth. I don't wish to call them liars, but what they saw could have been mistaken for some thing else, and i don't mean the light house. They all saw something that defies explanation but it may have been some thing very simple that none had thought of at the time.
Perhaps some side ways thinking is needed here, think out side the box.
I agree, that no man made science to my knowledge could do what Halt described but you never know.
Bit of a mystery.
Obs

[Admin]

I know its controversial but if witnesses did see non human lifeforms in close proximity to themselves then this would surely rule out Star Wars or beam weapon experiments or any type of black ops

Colonel Halt seems to enjoy leaving us with clues. For the last few years he has been adamant that some of the witnesses were "messed with".
Is it possible that 'aliens' were planted in the witnesses' memories to discredit the story and lead investigators in the wrong direction?

Someone said (possibly Halt, I can't be sure) the most important part of the case was the aftermath of the UFO incident. I assume that would mean the 'clean-up operation'.
No one seems to be sure what happened after the UFO sightings. Some of the witnesses are not willing to walk about it. After what John Burroughs has said on the forum, I am beginning to think this is a very crucial piece of the puzzle, which has been overlooked many times.

[puddlepirate]

Re Halt and others telling the truth. It is my view that there is a very big difference indeed between the military needing to put out a cover story in situations that require absolute secrecy and any of us telling porkies to our wives or girlfriends about our whereabouts after having been out bonking the barmaid from the Fox and Dogs...... One is essential for national security or to keep developments in military hardware/software secret. It also requires a trust that those involved will ahere to the secrecy agreements they have signed. The other is out and out lying and an utter betrayal of trust . Nobody is hurt by the first - probably the opposite - by lives are destroyed by the second. If Halt and his men were required to make statements as part of a vital cover up operation then there was very good reason behind it and if they are still required to maintain those stories, it does not make them liars in any way, shape or form. Frequently in matters of the military and specifically in the area of 'black ops', there is a need keep information out of the public domain and I strongly suspect the RFI was one of those occasions. With the introduction of technologies such as the internet there is now an expectation that we should be told everything and that no government should have anything to hide. The reality is that they have - and often for very good reason. Reasons that are not clear to us because we have no need to know.

Hypothetically, if the USAF had dropped a nuke off one of their aircraft whilst overflying Rendlesham Forest in 1980 and had the cause of that been a malfunction generated by covert 10Mw radar experiments on the 'ness or at RAF Bawdsey and had that weapon landed in the forest, with the media - then us - knowing all about it, what would have happened? Would we have picked up our morning newspapers and simply shrugged and said 'Goodness me! Tut tut. Some radar boffins caused an American F111 out of Lakenheath to drop a nuke! Nearly turned east half of Anglia into a radioactive desert! I didn't think the Americans had any nukes in the UK. Most surprising, what. I wonder if it landed near to old Chuffy Mortimer's place. Best give him a ring later. More tea, dear?" I don't think so. There would have been uproar. None of this happened of course but if it had, then there would have been a cover story issued and that story would have been maintained for years.

[Observer]

Hi
I agree with puddle and also admin, Halt has been dropping clues and changing his story for years but holds back with any punch line. His comments are at best tantilising and at worst unhelpful. I'm sure as puddle said, he must be operating under the same system as the UK's OSA but more to the point is he is possibly part of the disinformation team [Well he was a trusted Officer] and this forum is just a pain in their butt.
As admin said, the time post RFI is quite empty as far as information goes.
We need to look at this area in more detail.
We also need to establish what would be serious enough to warrant disinformation for 28 years. Puddle has suggested an accident with a nuclear weapon which to my mind is the front runner, but i will add to that a scenario that involves the Russians, but i'm not sure what.
The B-47 that crashed while carrying a NW at RAF Lakenheath never had the cloak of secrecy over it for the length of time the RFI has, which is puzzling to say the least. Graham Haynes might be able to tell us how long it was and under what circumstances when it became public knowledge?
One last point, i think Halt has been warned not to get involved with this forum for obvious reasons as he must surely know about us.
It would be very useful if some of the other ex USAF servicemen involved in the RFI came and joined our forum, but they too could have been warned not to get involved or they are simply not interested.
Obs

[robert]

Hi
I agree with puddle and also admin, Halt has been dropping clues and changing his story for years but holds back with any punch line. His comments are at best tantilising and at worst unhelpful. I'm sure as puddle said, he must be operating under the same system as the UK's OSA but more to the point is he is possibly part of the disinformation team [Well he was a trusted Officer] and this forum is just a pain in their butt.
Obs

Obs,
I tend to think the same about Colonel Halt but why then would Gordon Williams be giving him such a hard time. Is that a sham to add emphasis to the cover up or is Halt genuinely out of favour with the Top Brass?

Robert

[Observer]

Robert
Probably because Halt is going public all the time with interviews and seminars, where as Williams isn't. Williams is possibly afraid that Halt will say too much one day and give the game away so to speak.
This infers that both Halt and Williams no a lot more than we do.
Obs

[Andy]

I know its controversial but if witnesses did see non human lifeforms in close proximity to themselves then this would surely rule out Star Wars or beam weapon experiments or any type of black ops

Colonel Halt seems to enjoy leaving us with clues. For the last few years he has been adamant that some of the witnesses were "messed with".
Is it possible that 'aliens' were planted in the witnesses' memories to discredit the story and lead investigators in the wrong direction?

Someone said (possibly Halt, I can't be sure) the most important part of the case was the aftermath of the UFO incident. I assume that would mean the 'clean-up operation'.
No one seems to be sure what happened after the UFO sightings. Some of the witnesses are not willing to walk about it. After what John Burroughs has said on the forum, I am beginning to think this is a very crucial piece of the puzzle, which has been overlooked many times.

Enjoy leaving us with clues?? He's not seemingly the only one.

[Andy]

I think if you quickly review the following, anything that corresponds to a light house or distant lights of any description would seem to me to be somewhat elusive.
There is also a sketch in the second link that again corresponds to nothing that would seem to resemble a distant light or lights.

I've put in the statement at the end by Ralph Noyes with apologies to all our hardworking investigators but it is nice I'm sure you would agree, to get as many views as possible for our own perspective.

Robert


BBC link as below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/3033428.stm

US Air Force Sergeant John Burroughs said: "The blue lights coming down from the sky... I still have never heard of any technology capable of doing what I saw happening."

"The original stuff we saw cannot be taken for a police car. There's no way possible."

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... t/1980.htm

In addition to Col. Halt's summary, testimony was provided by the USAF patrolmen involved in the case. Law enforcement airman John Burroughs wrote an official deposition of his experience after spotting some lights while on patrol near Woodbridge's East Gate

"We stopped the truck where the road stopped and went on foot. We crossed a small open field that lead into the trees where the lights were coming from and as we were coming into the trees there were strange noises, like a woman was screaming, also the woods lit up and you could hear the farm animals making a lot of noise and there was a lot of movement in the woods. All three of us hit the ground and whatever it was started moving back towards the open field and after a minute or two we got up and moved into the trees and the lights moved out into the open field''

In a 1990 interview, John Burroughs described the object as:


"A bank of lights, differently colored lights that threw off an image of like-a-craft. I never saw anything metallic or anything hard."


Yet the most interesting part of his testimony is not the presence of the lights, but rather his sensation of an altered state of consciousness:


"Everything seemed like it was different when we were in that clearing. The sky didn't seem the same... it was like a weird feeling, like everything seemed slower than you were actually doing, and all of a sudden when the object was gone, everything was like normal again."

British author and researcher Ralph Noyes was for four years the head of Defense Secretariat 8 (DS8), retiring in 1977 with the rank of Under Secretary of State. He wrote regarding this case:


"Our worried skeptical colleagues have already had to advance an extraordinary hotch-potch of explanations: space debris, a bright meteor, a police car, drink and drugs, a lighthouse, other lights on the coast, dear old Sirius.

"Occam, you will remember, urged us to cut away unnecessary complications in our attempts to explain phenomena and to look for the simplest explanation. The simplest explanation of Halt's memorandum is that he was reporting - as precisely as wondrous events permit - what he and 'numerous individuals' encountered on December 29/30, together with such facts as he had been able to ascertain from his subordinates about the occurrences of December 26/27."

We stopped the truck where the road stopped and went on foot.

1. The end of the East Gate road?
2. You turned right at the East gate road and followed the main road through along until you were opposite the previous route 12 that lead into the forest?
3. You managed all of the above and followed route 12 until it ended, which to me would have been where the farmer's field commences (at the end of route 12)

Which one was it?

We crossed a small open field that lead into the trees where the lights were coming from? To my knowlege there are no fields within Rendlesham, or ever have been, so i assume you mean the farmer's field at the end of (the previous) route 12?
Across the farmers field and to the side of and behind the cottages in the field (Boast et al's) there are trees, is this where you saw the lights? This is also the area of Larry Warren's alleged sighting.

As you came into the trees there were noises like a woman screaming? Could this have been a fox? I've heard many over the years, but one that sticks in my mind was one at the back of my cottage. It sounded like someone being mugged or sexually assaulted, and sounded very much like a human.

You could hear the farm animals (granted if you are in the field as described above) and a lot of movement in the woods?..... What woods? The few trees surrounding the cottages?.... or in Rendlesham forest proper, on the other side of the field?

All three of us hit the ground and whatever it was started moving towards the open field......... from what direction?....... The forest (ie Rendlesham) or from the direction of the cottages in the field which you would seem to be describing?

[Dave100]

Couple of nice links from Andy there,the Kevin Conde episode always amused me but a lot of folk were happy to believe that one unbelievably even after he admitted he did the prank during an exercise after the holiday period and had nothing to do with the incidents,this was discussed on that professional pilots forum some months ago and some people still think the cop car explained the whole thing ,so we can all go home and stop worrying then...
Ralph Noyes said some interesting things and like Colonel Halt and Gordon Williams probably knew much more but wouldn't or couldn't say more(for now).I recall in some publication way back he recalled USA and British intelligence officers meeting to view gun camera ufo footage,so it was and is taken very seriously of course.
Back to Colonel Halt,of course he has left us clues and has sort of nudged researchers into the right direction at times without telling all but for me the admission that he has more audio tapes that he says the public will never be able to hear is possibly the most important comment he has made years after he first went public(detailed in Georgina's book,)maybe just maybe Gordon williams is worried these recordings will at somepoint enter the public domain and reveal incredible information that implicates himself and others in the incidents.
Colonel Halt did say on live TV he would undergo a lie detector test to verify he wasnt part of a cover up to do with the incidents but couldn't absolutely say it wasn't one.
I personally think Colonel Halt and all the other witnesses,Jim Penniston,John Burroughs,Larry and others have been very courageous in what they have said over the years.Was this just a very clever cover up of some very advanced military hardware and everyone and his dog was in on it.No, Iv'e never thought it was and never will unless some firm evidence comes out to say so,for me the technology on show was way to advanced ,wherever it comes from!
The military are very good at covering things up like this though and they have had a lot of practice at it so they should be good at it! .Think of the Roswell incident and Walter Hauts affidavit(to be released after he died) that the incident was a cover up of a cover up,it was very cleverly done indeed and his affidavit is worth reading.The military will have a plan A,plan B etc to put into operation after such events whether its an experiment gone wrong or craft landing that don't have "made on earth" written on them so to speak.
Its always strikes me as odd about that mystery Galaxy aircraft that flew into Woodbridge after the incidents and parked at the end of the runway offloading several personnel that went straight into the woods.They had no insignia apparently and Colonel Halt didn't have the clearance to know what they they were doing,in other words he didn't have the "need to know" and thats the deputy base commander.Were they gathering evidence in the forest(very likely)or part of the cover up operation that swung into gear very quickly,just odd to me that this aircraft parked at the end of the runway.On that Proffesional Pilots forum,one guy wrote that this plane flew in from Cyprus and had a Cosmic 01 or 2 call sign if I recall rightly,he seemed genuine and knew a a bit about the incidents.I think Colonel Halt first mentioned this after a talk he did back in the mid 90's in Leeds when asked if he could remember any other details.Maybe someone from that flight will come forward one day with a tale to tell(probably wishful thinking)

[larry warren]

hi guys,
Halt is hard to read, granted but ithink he wants to tell what he really knows, i senced some guilt
in the man when we met inDC, i also think he might be trying to get the info out in small bits, he has a pention
as do others in this to worrie about, a mans got to eat.
some AF heavys at the disclousure 2001, to me i got into so much crap because i diddent know how the machiene
worked .
i also dont think any of the first nights guys ie, John, JIM, or Ed madeup, or changed a damnd thing,
these guys were F..ked with by what ever was inside the craft they saw! it wouldent just sit there and
let the fellas studie it, no way!
those boys were lured out into the forrest so it, could grab and then study them.
i mean no offence to the guys and i hope they know i really give a damn aboutem!!!
but lets cut to the damn chase, its a scary thing to have happen, but it wouldent be the first time
to the guys , youll be ok.
but what came to that forrest had purpose, and the USAF could do nothing to stop them.
in the after math , that Halt talks about, thats when the damage control began and many of us burned for it!
funny that the officers dident get touched, and if they did? then nows the time to talk, set the record right
and make amends to all the young airman that the feds f..ked with wilst they stood on the sidelines.
cheers.

[Observer]

Dave just a small point re the C-5. It landed at Bentwaters not Woodbridge as only BW had a secure aircraft parking area, which is not axactly at the end of the runway. The C-5 had its own security crew and no one was allowed near it including Halt. JB said that 'stuff' was taken off and put on it while it was there and some crew inspected the WSA, but my guess is that it was just the Nuke weapon exchange plane. They had short shelf life and had to go back to the factory for refurb every so often so it was an old for new system carried out by the C-5. It was policy not to let people near NW, common sense, we were the same in the RAF.
Obs

[Observer]

Larry
That's interesting what you said, "Those boys were lured out there". Maybe it was the lights on the 'object' that lured them into the forest I suggested this last year in one of my posts. You also mention that SAC bases had similar events in the US? Does any one know about these incidents?
I don't buy the theory that this was only happening at nuke bases because there were other nuke bases including RAF bases not that far away in Norfolk where these incidents didn't happen. So why pick on US nuke bases and not RAF? Very selective don't you think, must be a reason.
Obs

[puddlepirate]

interesting re the C-5 c/s.....cosmic = NATO top secret. Probably a coincidence.

[robert]

Obs

Plenty on the web about the interference at the SAC bases.
Well documented. Can't give you a link at the moment but the Steven Greer guy has one or two guys on his site, (ex Military on the SAC bases,) who have come forward as witnesses to that effect.
I have seen the 'lights' circling the test weapons as they were lifting off. Don't know what speed was involved but as the Missiles were going vertical the 'lights' were circling around the missile!
Again on a Documentary but there should be a link.
Try SAC Missile UFO on Google. Should get some info.

Robert

[puddlepirate]

the c/s turns out to be:

COSMIC F-16 119th FG,138.1 am (NJ ANG air to air Victor-19)

source; http://members.cox.net/giantkiller-1/callad.htm

So why would a C-5 be using a c/s assigned to the F16's of the 119th Fighter Group? Perhaps c/s were re-assigned at some point?

[robert]

PP
Re Cosmic. Cs

Air National Guard
119th FW- Fargo, N.D. (F-16A/B)
Based in Fargo, North Dakota.
http://www.globemaster.de/govsearch/index.html


Also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/119th_WingAircraft Operated[4]

The first overseas deployment of the North Dakota Air Guard occurred in 1983, with six F-4s and 120 support personnel deploying to Keflavik, Iceland. Eight Russian TU-95 Bear bombers were intercepted by Hooligan pilots during the deployment. In 1986, the 119th Fighter Group became the first core unit to assume the USAF Zulu alert mission at Ramstein Air Base, Germany. Referred to as "Creek Klaxon", the 119th and other Air Defense units stood continuous alert for one year, providing air sovereignty in Europe for NATO

Aircraft Operated

C-27J Spartan (2010?)
MQ-1A Predator (2007-Present)
C-21 Learjet (2007-2010)
C-26 Metroliner (1992-199?)
F-16A/B Fighting Falcon (1990-2007)
C-130B Hercules (1987-1992)
F-4D Phantom II (1977-1990)
C-131 Samaritan (1975-1987)
VT-29 Samaritan (1972-1975)
F-101B Voodoo (1969-1977)
C-54 Skymaster (1967-1972)
F-102A Delta Dagger (1966-1969)
F-89J Scorpion (1959-1966)
F-89D Scorpion (1958-1959)
C-45 Expeditor (1955-1959)
T-33 Shooting Star (1954-1987)
F-94A/B/C Starfire (1954-1958)
L-5 Sentinel (1948-??)
C-47 Skytrain (1948-1968)
B-26 Marauder (1948-??)
AT-6 Texan (1947-??)
P-51D Mustang (1947-1954)