CIA using us

[John Burroughs]

Sorry I never said it was a object. Just bright lights. In my statement I tried to show what the lights looked like. Penniston was the one who said it was solid and warm to the touch.

[John Burroughs]

Deep Purple
Was there underground facilities at the base not sure! Thats why I would like to go back and take a hard look at the area. As far as off base goes we were told there was a underground site towards the coast. I beleive all kinds of testing went on in that area all the way back to WW 2. Why would it be the US only as far as I know your Country took the lead in radar and other test. The Nsa and your Branch could have been working on somthing. Remember what Thatcher said to Bruni. Also Williams is on record on a tape called Out of the Blue saying he did not see Halt's memo before it was sent and would have looked at it closley because there was stuff in it that could not be defended. Why in your Country Mod files did it say Gen Garibal came down and collect all of the evidence 3 days later? Things don't add up nobody has really tried to look at all of the stuff that went on behind the scenes. All most people want to do is argue weather it was a ailien ship or was it the ligjht house and note I said most this group seems to be trying to look at other possibilities but its also important to look at the surroundings also.

[Observer]

Hi
I think that Graham Haynes is the best person to talk about alleged undeground facilities at the twin bases. Graham to my knowledge has dismissed this idea quite strongly as i do.
As for other secret places in the area, Gordon Kinsey is your man. he has written a quite explicit and revealing book about the ness and surrounding area. I have not read it myself but will when i can get a copy.

There is a couple of good websites about the ness with photos of all the military and AWRE buildings inside and out.
If you want some thing really wierd, check out the British Polaris Chevaline programm on the web and tell me what you think of the pictures of the PAC re entry warhead that was tested on the ness.

Observer

[John Burroughs]

OK but has he checked inside the command pos I can tell you there was a underground facility there and tunnels. There was one in the old one and from what i was told a even bigger one in the new one. Thats what I want to look at

[ghaynes]

OK but has he checked inside the command pos I can tell you there was a underground facility there and tunnels. There was one in the old one and from what i was told a even bigger one in the new one. Thats what I want to look at

Hi John,
Yep. Our museum is in the Command Post. We know every square inch of that building (including under the floor). There are no entrances to undergound facilities in the command post that we know of. We have yet to find an underground facility anywhere on the base. You are more than welcome to come and visit us and show us where you think the entrance/s were. Think you may be disappointed though.
Edit...having thought about this for a while I'm wondering if the 'alleged' underground facility is actually the semi-underground ops room in the command post (known as the 'pit'). This is one of the rooms we've restored to its operational appearance. This could be where the confusion lies?
Regards.

Graham

[ghaynes]

Deep Purple
Was there underground facilities at the base not sure! Thats why I would like to go back and take a hard look at the area. As far as off base goes we were told there was a underground site towards the coast. I beleive all kinds of testing went on in that area all the way back to WW 2. Why would it be the US only as far as I know your Country took the lead in radar and other test. The Nsa and your Branch could have been working on somthing. Remember what Thatcher said to Bruni. Also Williams is on record on a tape called Out of the Blue saying he did not see Halt's memo before it was sent and would have looked at it closley because there was stuff in it that could not be defended. Why in your Country Mod files did it say Gen Garibal came down and collect all of the evidence 3 days later? Things don't add up nobody has really tried to look at all of the stuff that went on behind the scenes. All most people want to do is argue weather it was a ailien ship or was it the ligjht house and note I said most this group seems to be trying to look at other possibilities but its also important to look at the surroundings also.

Hi John,
There was an underground facility near the coast at Bawdsey. I was based there for a time when I was in the RAF. Nothing 'sinister' happened there, it was only an air defence radar/bloodhound missile base.
Regards.

Graham

[John Burroughs]

Graham
Thanks! Not sure if that is the room but is the old command post still there? The reason why I am asking is from what I have been told is that Halt is now saying that Penniston and others including myself were taken to a under ground room and given the once over by OSI. As far as the underground facilitie off base goes was there any kind of weapons testing going on? Was the Facility tied to Bawdsey and maybe the poloris missle's at orfordness, and was there any other Facitities in the area?

[John Burroughs]

Graham
How close have you looked at the Weapons storage area's at both Bentwaters and Woodbrige? They were both set up the same way and used the same way at different times! The first time was before the A-10 came in IE F-4 and right before the base started drawing down to close. At one point before the drawdown Woodbridge and Bentwaters operated seperatly for the security police. I can't say much more than that but the bunkers that held the weapons did have tunnels and a underground area!!

[Observer]

John

Re Polaris on the ness, they were not complete missiles, it was parts of the war head system that were tested there to see if they would stand up to the high 'G' forces on submarine launch and re entry on to target. This was done by a centrifuge and this machiney was housed in the 'Pagoda' style buildings that you can see from the main land. There were other weapons tested there for the same reasons.

The only part of these war heads that interests me is the decoy systems that they deployed on re entry. There could be a connection, but you would need a scientist to unravell that.
There was never any test firings done as these would have been from a submarine or at one of the missile test ranges.
As for any other work going on there, i'm not sure but i guess there could have been.

[John Burroughs]

I do not know anything about that. From time to time I have read that in articles about the case but I never heard that or saw that myself durning that time frame.

[ghaynes]

Graham
Thanks! Not sure if that is the room but is the old command post still there? The reason why I am asking is from what I have been told is that Halt is now saying that Penniston and others including myself were taken to a under ground room and given the once over by OSI. As far as the underground facilitie off base goes was there any kind of weapons testing going on? Was the Facility tied to Bawdsey and maybe the poloris missle's at orfordness, and was there any other Facitities in the area?

Hi John,
The old Command Post has long since gone. From what I can gather it was on the domestic side of the base. The 'new' Command Post was built as part of Creek Standard and came on line at around the same time the 81st TFW switched from the F-4D to the A-10. All the other hardened buildings were built at the same time.
The underground facility at Bawdsey was used to operate a Flight of Bloodhound missiles as well as being an Air Defence Radar site. Never saw any of these weapons test fired though.
Regards.

Graham

[ghaynes]

Graham
How close have you looked at the Weapons storage area's at both Bentwaters and Woodbrige? They were both set up the same way and used the same way at different times! The first time was before the A-10 came in IE F-4 and right before the base started drawing down to close. At one point before the drawdown Woodbridge and Bentwaters operated seperatly for the security police. I can't say much more than that but the bunkers that held the weapons did have tunnels and a underground area!!

I studied Bentwaters a lot closer than Woodbridge. Both bases had a CAS (Conventional Ammunition Store) but only Bentwaters had a WSA (Weapon Storage Area) containing the Hot Row igloos. Bentwaters also has the unique storage igloo that contains a high security walk-in safe. It required three different people to open this safe (there were three locks) so no single person could gain access to its contents. The safe contained EDM (Emergency Destruct Munitions).
Regards.

Graham

[puddlepirate]

Hi John, good to have you on board...

Chaps

I think we are looking in the wrong place for the wrong things. We need to look beyond the twin bases. Whatever happened in Rendlesham forest in Dec 1980 was the product of events elsewhere. Understand that and the required response to those events and we should find ourselves on the right track. It won't provide the solution but it will steer us toward it.

[Observer]

EXACTLY, couldn't put it better myself.
Puddlepirate is right, its what happened else where after the event that we should be looking at. Its the reactions of the authorities, Maggie Thatcher etc. that must reveal clues to the direction we need to take.

As for the TV Documenteries, quite honsestly, you are not going to get a programm thats that accurate or adheres to the facts and figures unless a high profile maker like the BBC's Panorama does one on Rendlesham.

They will be more interested in the facts than viewing figures.

Observer

[John Burroughs]

Graham
What about the Weapon storage areas at both bases? Have you been in them?

[John Burroughs]

Graham
Sorry I missed one of your post but Woodbridge had more in it than you think. It was set up just like Bentwaters twice. They had F-4's on alert before the A-10 and F-16 during the big build up with Reagon. There were 2 SP squadrons one at Bentwaters and 1 at Woodbridge totally seperate of each other. I spent allot of time out there because while I was there LE took care of it. It is a very interesting place and there was a underground area with tunnels if you can take a look around they use to have a large K-9 section there and they had dogs walking around the storage area at night while the F-4 were there.

[ghaynes]

Graham
What about the Weapon storage areas at both bases? Have you been in them?

Hi John,
Yep, been in them both. As I said in my earlier post there was no WSA at Woodbridge, only a CAS. If you look at aerial photos of both bases the difference between their respective storage areas is very noticeable. On the ground, the security set-up at Bentwaters also appeared to be considerably more substantial than at Woodbridge.
Regards.

Graham

[John Burroughs]

Start by looking for a large power source. If this were man made it would need allot of power to make it work. There is a Nuclear power plant up the coast. If there are major lines that lead to a Base on the Coast that might be a start. Also could the light house beam have been used as a source to trigger some kind of effect. Again they would need allot of power and there would br cables going out to the ness. I have read Radar beams can cause a vortex effect plus people have talked about plasma again a engery source. Also that area has had allot of strange events besides ours.What do the locals have to say? It was also reported the people in the farmers house were moved after the incident. finding them would be interesting. Also have there been a large amount of cancer cases in the area?

[ghaynes]

Graham
.....It is a very interesting place and there was a underground area with tunnels if you can take a look around they use to have a large K-9 section there and they had dogs walking around the storage area at night while the F-4 were there.

Hi again John,
Forgot to mention that the tunnels at Bentwaters and Woodbridge are part of the runway drainage/soak away system. The system at Woodbridge is particularly substantial due to the considerable size of the original WWII runway.
Regards.

Graham

[redsocks]

[quote="John Burroughs"]I took a look and that is not what I saw.[/quote]

Thanks John for clearing this up the ARRS theory is now officially dead! Just one thing you said all you saw were lights but Penniston claims he saw a craft?strange if you guys were both together why Penniston would come out with this.I totally agree with Puddlepirate here that we should be looking futher afield for the answer,we have been concentrating to much on the Rendlesham area for sure the origins of this whole deal start way back somewhere else.I feel now that we are in the right area with the weapon theory after all everything else has been so dismissed and we could not have done this without John so a big up for coming on here and wanting to put sense to this whole story,theres no way without somebody coming forward who was actually there could we have got anywhere we were as suggested here "chasing our tales".I think we need to get right into the weapons programs of that era and get somebody's knowledge of what possilities this incident could have been,it will be a process of elimination.Obviously a lot of this is going to be top secret stuff but as time goes on things becomes less and less secret and thats when this whole deal will be sorted.

Redsocks