Ian was right

[puddlepirate]

Well, given Adrian F is a film maker then I stand corrected. And as Adrian's images were shot at the edge of the farmer's field then I stand corrected on that also... however it's interesting to note that even with a 200mm lens the light is so small as to be insignificant. I have to admit i've been to the field many, many times and have walked the entire length of the perimeter fence, scanning the horizon with binoculars and telephoto lenses making every effort to see the lighthouse, even standing in the spot Ian R specifically mentioned but I have never been able to see it The only place I thought it might be visible from was on the extreme far side of the field, along the southern edge of Oak Wood because at that point the land slopes away to the coast giving a clear line of sight, whereas from only yards further north the high ground between the field and the coast gets in the way.

That said, Halt has only ever said he saw a red light, not a white light and a red light is most certainly not visible from the field - unless he saw the red lights atop the BBC aerial masts. Also, there is no way that the lighthouse could be seen from east gate. Nor does it illuminate the forest with beams of light. In fact, as Adrian's video shows, it is so insignificant that it is highly unlikely that anyone in the forest would even have noticed it and once they'd crossed into the farmers's field it would disappear from view almost instantly because as can be seen in Ian R's and other photos, the ground slopes quite quickly downwards towards the farmer's house and the road at Capel Green.

[Daniel]

Just listened to the tape again and it sounds like there must have been many lighthouses out that night. Cherry pick all you like there wasn't only one light out there. Been nice to see the audio quotes time-stamped so that I can tell how far apart each segment was from each other, as well as any breaks that occured during that time. Also sounds like this light was may have been spotted from slightly within the forest.

PuddlePirate, is the land between the farmers house and the coast lower or higher? The second farmers field soulds like it was beyond the farmers house and across a 'creek' or small stream or ditch.

I just don't have the time to listen to the tape continuously again. Maybe I'll play with it during my nice holiday breaks throughout the year.

[Gordy]

. I have to admit i've been to the field many, many times and have walked the entire length of the perimeter fence, scanning the horizon with binoculars and telephoto lenses making every effort to see the lighthouse, even standing in the spot Ian R specifically mentioned but I have never been able to see it

Same here. The only time I saw a sweeping light was 3-4 years ago but that was about 90degs to the right from where the lighthouse is. It was a rotating white light right at the top of the line of trees in the Capel Green farmers field. I thought that was the Orford lighthouse (before I knew where it is), I guess it must have been a ship out at sea or a military exercise.

[puddlepirate]

Daniel

If you check an UK Ordnance Survey map (Explorer 212) you will see an area of high ground, approx 19m between the farmer's field and the coast. The field is at approx 29m and the light is 28m (heights above sea level). The light is 5.5 miles east of the farmer's field. If you make a scale drawing, profile view, of the heights, you can see that because of the distance between the light and the field and because the high ground is closer to the field than the to the light, the high ground blocks the view of the light. If you draw a line on the map from the farmers field to the light you will see it passes over the high ground. However, if you move only a few dozen yards to the south, to the southern edge of Oak Wood, which borders the southern edge of the field, the land falls way to the coast and the view is no longer blocked by the high ground. That's what led me to believe that whilst the light could not be seen from the field it might be possible to see it from Oak Wood but in either event, if you stand on the jetty at Orfordness, only about 4km from the light, it is a tiny speck just a few degrees off the horizon. In fact I was so astonished at it being so small that I asked a local in the Jolly Sailor pub who turned out to be a fisherman, if the tiny speck of light flashing every five seconds just above the horizon was the Orford Ness light - he confirmed it was.

The lamps have been changed over the years but if you want to see the original lamps from the lighthouse, they are are hanging above the bar in the pub... and even they are surprisingly small. Not great big things at all.

[Daniel]

Another thing to look at is the range of the Starlight Scope. The AN/PVS-2 has been mentioned in a previous post, but it's range would be limited. Without fully knowing what they were using it is difficult to know the full viewable range of the device.

The AN/PVS-2 Starlight Scope I employed on the hill in El Salvador was a device of just this type. Total length of the AN/PVS-2 is about 18.3 inches. It weighs just less than 4 pounds, and is powered by a 6.75-volt disposable battery with a continuous service life of 72 hours. The useful range in a moonlit environment is approximately 400 meters. With only starlight to illuminate the scene, the range drops to about 300 meters. Passive night vision equipment of this general design is called "first generation" (aka "Gen 1"). The Gen 1 image is clear at the center, but may be distorted around the edges.

Death in the dark: night vision devices: how they work, history, personal experiences and latest developments - Paragraph 17.

[puddlepirate]

Thanks, Gordy! So I'm not alone on that one then......

[stephan]

the main reason why I believe it was the lighthouse (in regard to certain passages on the Halt tape) and not other lights is the pupil thing.

@ AdrianF, I also thought that the color change might have to do with weather conditions but I was not sure if the lighthouse would be distant enough for a refraction/ scintillation effect.

@ puddle, I make films, too

damn, you people make me wish to go to Capel Green and film that damn lighthouse for myself. But that would be more than just a short trip to Cologne ... I've read somewhere that it is going to be turned off in 2011 once and for all but I dunno if it's true.

[stephan]

@ Daniel,

as it is a ''nightvision'' device I think that the range refers to other objects than lights. More like people and stuff. But when you look at a light the range certainly is much bigger and if you magnify and intensify the light of a lighthouse which btw is - by definition - meant to be seen from afar its flash will probably ''almost burn your eye''

[Gordy]

damn, you people make me wish to go to Capel Green and film that damn lighthouse for myself. But that would be more than just a short trip to Cologne ... I've read somewhere that it is going to be turned off in 2011 once and for all but I dunno if it's true.

You can get a Ryan Air flight from Frankfurt Hahn to Stansted for about 30 euros return, on for example 23 November. And as an added bonus you might get to fly over the whole area, East Suffolk & Essex are the stacking areas for Stansted.

[John Burroughs]

Stephen Here is my problem with you and others! You have not been out there you have not used that equipment and most of all have not used that equipment out there in the Forrest. You sit there and make assumption after assumption with out ever being out there. Ian did go out there and then twisted everything to favor his opinion and now others have gone out there and called him on it. Jump on a plane and check it out better yet show up on the 28th...

[puddlepirate]

The freakin' lighthouse is a navigaton mark for ships at sea... it is not for decoration or to be seen from landward. It is deliberately shielded to landward to severly limit the amount of light seen from that side. Even Adrian F's vid clips show how insignificantly small the light is. It is nothing.. a tiny little speck. Even then it can only be seen (apparently) from within a space of couple of yards at the far southern end of the field. If you are not in that precise spot it cannot be seen. Telephoto lenses will not count in this respect because if it was seen at all by any of the witnesses it was seen with the naked eye. In addition to that it is white, not red and it is a single light, not multiple lights moving around. Any refraction or lens abheration cannot count either because, as with the telephoto lens issue, the lights were seen with the naked eye. Also, when Halt first saw the lights he wasn't at the edge of the farmer's field, he was in the forest. The evidence of Adrian F's vid clips taken with a clear view across the field shows just how difficult it would be to see the light - it would be virtually impossible to see it from within a forest of closely planted pine trees with bramble and other stuff lining the perimeter fence some distance from Halt's location.

And of course, there is no way that such a tiny speck of light could be seen from anyone on duty at east gate. The lamp might have been a bit more powerful in 1980 but the light still faced in the same direction and it was still shielded by exactly the same amount to landward.

As you are a film maker then why not, as others have suggested, hop short flight to Stansted then drive up to the forest and see for yourself. With the 30th anniversary looming it would be an ideal time to make a documentary and once you've done the business in the field you can then go to the jetty at Orford and film the light from there.......

[ncf1]

If I go to my doctor and tell him I have a cough and he then says, "Well you have a cold then", I'd say he was a rubbish doctor. Could be anything, could be pneumonia, could be lung cancer, who knows - the thing is, you obviously cant diagnose something on one symptom when there could be others, all need to be looked at and an overall picture needs to be made. Yet here's this know-it-all who has a simplistic, one-dimensional theory, who doesn't even bother looking at all the testimony, wasn't even there as a witness, has total tunnel vision (fits in perfectly), doesn't even turn up to events he should yet with supreme arrogance claims to know better than countless witnesses and even has the nerve to berate them in front of others as shown in his latest little conference.

What I'd really, really love is to see a conference - but not one of those rubbish finger-pointing Powerpoint circus acts that preach to the already-converted, but one where Ridpath sits down face to face with the true witnesses, listens to what they have to say first and then he can respond to them - not have him tell them what they should know in his opinion. Trouble is, his ego wont allow it - NO WAY would it allow that, he gets as much attention as he likes already.

Those poor , poor cows that got hit by traffic as they ran away... from a lighthouse that was there the night before and the night prior to that. How utterly silly of them.. those stupid, stupid cows.

[Daniel]

But when you look at a light the range certainly is much bigger and if you magnify and intensify the light of a lighthouse which btw is - by definition - meant to be seen from afar its flash will probably ''almost burn your eye''

This would be true if it was coming from a direct beam of light. I've been hit in the past from high beam flash lights and it made me go blind for a second. Wasn't nice at all. Granted I was only 30m away. Don't think you would need to come just to film the lighthouse visibility as AdrianF has done that. Still you miss out on gathering your own evidence and not having to rely on other people to do the work for you.

Growing up on Military bases when I was little, I've come to know how professional Servicemen act while they're doing their job. I felt sorry for Law Enforcement, from the 81sps, going around the housing areas every foggy morning telling us kiddies to get back into our homes as another 2 hour delay has been called.

[John Burroughs]

The get together on the 28th at the east gate won't be like that ncF1! We want everybody to show up and listen to what we have to say go through with us what we had to face that night and see for yourself! Ian was asked to show up and declined. We also might being doing a speaking engagement in the town of Woodbridge before we go out in the Forrest that night!

[ncf1]

No no John I didnt mean the one on the 28th, I meant the one like Ian has up on Youtube at the moment!

[ncf1]

its precisely what I'm saying - why doesn't Ian show up to the one on the 28th? The IMPORTANT one?? Rather than stage his own little circus acts.

[John Burroughs]

I understand I'm just saying ours won't be like that! No finger pointing just talking about what happened and what we had to deal with.... Because we will show with witness it could not have been the lighthouse what we he do then??

[puddlepirate]

Just to drop back to the fire dept thing for a moment.. does anyone know if they were definitely called out and if so which was it the Suffolk brigade or the USAF; on what date roughly what time were they called out and by whom? Or is this simply a mistake and the FD wasn't called out at all.....

[John Burroughs]

Local fire with the British police on the night Jim and I went out

[stephan]

Gordy, John,

the problem is that I don't fly. Yes, I'm that kind of fearful when it comes to airplanes, I always call them flying coffins. However, there are other means of transportation. I'll have to figure something out but cannot promise anything.

John, as far as I know you have always said that you and Jim have no idea what it was what you have seen. So how can you be sure that it wasn't something mundane seen under very unfortunate circumstances and conditions. So you have to make assumptions as well! And so far I haven't even mentioned your eye-witness account in this thread. It's only about parts of the Halt tape at this point. What he observed doesn't necessarily have to be what you or Jim observed.

btw, only today I almost mistook the ISS for an UFO (see pic below). I say almost because I've seen it a couple of times before. But I have never seen it that bright for that long before. If there wouldn't be a website which provides information about the exact position of the ISS at any time (http://www.calsky.com) I would probably still think it could have been an UFO: