The clue's on the words

[Observer]

Hi all
Tired, bewildered, out of sensible ideas and ready for councilling but here is a few points worth considering.
In one post it was said that Both the US and UK governments would be embarrassed if it was revealed what happened. Not angry, not annoyed, not ready to press the button, just embarrassad?
This implies that both Governments know what happened and it was NOT of defence significance.
Maggie Thatcher's words to Georgina Bruni, You Can't Tell The People and you must get your facts right.
Yes, i have said this before but i don't think we should ignore it. This implies she also knew being the PM but again no concerns over defence.

No USAF person at that time has ever said then or subsequently that this incident was of defence significance to my knowledge! Please correct me if i'm wrong as the brain is fading fast.

Taking the witness statements at face value implies there was an incursion into British air space but the MOD said it was of no defence significance. This implies they also knew what had happened.

Every ex USAF person i have talked to who was serving at those bases have said NO WAY DID A STEALTH AIRCRAFT visit or base there.
When i ask about Nuclear and other weapons, there mood changes and they will not reply directly.
Puddle is right, they/and some of us are still bound by the OSA and you are still bound after retirement.

So i put it to the forum that this incident was either an accident, a prank that ended up as an accident or it was a real UFO. Blowed if i know.
Obs

[larry warren]

real UFOs dang it!!!!
the CIA told me to say that.
cheers

[Observer]

Hi all
Using google, find the web site headed, SECRET AIR FORCE MACH 50 PLANE AND OTHER EXOTIC CLASSIFIED. In the article it mentions anti gravity and British involvement.

Obs

[robert]

Ben Rich, stated during a 1993, Alumni Speech at UCLA, "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."

Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works


MACH 50 and Anti Gravity?
http://robocat.users.btopenworld.com/updates.htm

Lockheed-Martin does not say too much about its winged, delta-shape X-33 VentureStar, the single-stage-to-orbit, reuseable National Spaceplane, except to say that "we are building it." To be at that stage of development for its public-program Spaceplane, clearly Lockheed-Martin has already long since built prototypes, as well as an unacknowledged military version, which I have dubbed the X-33A. The A suffix stands for antigravity. Colonel Donald Ware, USAF (ret.) told me that he recently learned from a three-star General that the X-33 has electrogravitics (antigravity) system on board, [as the unacknowledged military version I estimate exists must surely also have.] This antigravity electrogravitics system has already been operationally proven on the B-2 Stealth bomber, which Colonel Ware has revealed also has electrogravitics system on board.

As for the "large base in the West" which your Mach 50 airplane operates from, that leaves several possibilities. If the mystery Mach 50 craft is the Aurora, NSC's Dr. Wolf says that the Aurora operates out of Area 51, (Groom Dry Lake Air Force Station), at the northeast corner of the Nellis AFB Range, north of Las Vegas, Nevada. The late Colonel Steve Wilson, USAF (ret.), Skywatch's founder, stated that military astronauts trained at a secret aerospace academy separate from the regular Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs, Co. These military astronauts operate out of Beale and Vandenberg Air Force Bases, Northern California From those bases, these military astronauts regularly fly trans- atmospherically and into space. One of the aerospace craft they use, Colonel Wilson reported, is the X-33A, a two-man antigravity discoid ship. Whether they also fly the Aurora and the military version of the X-33A spaceplane has not been confirmed, but likely.

[robert]

Additional note to above.

We already know there was a Colonel Spring involved with the nights in question at Rendlesham.
We know there was a Colonel 'Woody' Spring who was a military pilot flying 'experimental aircraft' out of Edwards Air Force Base who went on to Fly Space missions for NASA.

Was he involved in a experiemental Aircaft that also involved Anti Gravity.

If they can move a B2 vertically, a smaller experimental Stealth Aircraft would have been easier?, and this Guy might have been the chap to fly it.

Robert

[robert]

The A suffix stands for antigravity. Colonel Donald Ware, USAF (ret.) told me that he recently learned from a three-star General that the X-33 has electrogravitics (antigravity) system on board, [as the unacknowledged military version I estimate exists must surely also have.] This antigravity electrogravitics system has already been operationally proven on the B-2 Stealth bomber, which Colonel Ware has revealed also has electrogravitics system on board.

Come on Silvertop.You've only got to read a few lines!
Don't tell me you're already having sleepless nights!

LOL

Cheers
Robert

[Observer]

Folks
If you read Bill Gunston's [famous aviation expert and writer] account of the B-2, he will tell you and its in the public domain that the engine power/thrust/weight ratio of the B-2 is very poor indeed, thus it is drastically under powered, yet its performance is way above average. Bill suggests that some form of 'assist' anti gravity system is on board, hence its multi billion Dollar price tag per plane.
This is not conjecture as other well known aviation experts such as Bill Sweetman have said the same.
No it can't go vertically but it can lift one hell of a weight for its size.
Obs

[robert]

''Bill suggests that some form of 'assist' anti gravity system is on board, hence its multi billion Dollar price tag per plane.''

Would we be right in thinking if it can 'assist' a B2 it can do alot more with a craft of 11ft by 7ft.

Don't forget you are reading about the stuff already in the Public Domain and has been (B2) for many years.

I think Ben Rich was on the button when he said you can only dream about the gear they already have developed at the 'Skunkworks'.

Robert

[robert]

One additional note.

It is highly unlikely that anyone would risk an experimental craft 'landing' at night in the middle of a Forest. Risky to say the least and impossible to comprehend as intentional.

However what if it did lose control and made a forced landing.

You are then back to LWs initial report to the News of the World where they made the seemingly outlandish report at the time, that they made a rendez vous with the craft and some of the people around the craft were effecting repairs on it!
And also the other suggestion, at the time, that some of the Officers seemed to expect the situation and weren't non plussed as the enlisted guys obviously were.

But there again if you were a Piloting a plane in trouble would you aim for the forest or a clearing outside the Forest. Especially at night!
And then of course you would have to explain the 'return' on the third night.

Back to the drawing board!
Robert

[Observer]

Robert
Just staying with this subject a while longer, and yes it is a bit Sci Fi so don't beat me up just yet.
Does the US have such craft? Was it an early model that had just flown a recci mission over Russia but had a technical problem. Woodbridge could have been the nearest friendly base on their flight path and don't forget that Woodbridge was a designated emergency landing strip for the Shuttle, fact.

Perhaps they just could not make the runway and ended up in the forest. Were the men in silver suits as described by Larry Warren the flight crew. Williams was reported talking to these beings/entities as described, i presume in English!

Was the NASA chap who came to the base part of the enquiry? Was there some Photo recci film taken off the craft and flown to Germany. LW said he saw a 16mm film cannister. Was a spare part flown in from Germany?

The sketch that Penniston drew is similar to the nose/cockpit section of the Aurora or similar hypersonic spy plane. Check the web sites.

The description by Penniston of a smooth glass like finish could just be the heat resistant ceramic skin of the craft.
The electro atmosphere as described by Penniston and others was a biproduct of its anti gravity system.

The object Larry saw in the field covered all over in what looked like tiles could have been the quilting on a special high speed parachute.

The local prison and one other establisment were put on EVAC standby, so some thing was expected that was in trouble?

The lights and dripping molten metal as described by Halt could have been some of its systems going off due to a heavy landing in the forest.

Leave it there for the moment.

Never say Never.

Obs

[robert]

Robert
Just staying with this subject a while longer, and yes it is a bit Sci Fi so don't beat me up just yet.
Does the US have such craft? Was it an early model that had just flown a recci mission over Russia but had a technical problem. Woodbridge could have been the nearest friendly base on their flight path and don't forget that Woodbridge was a designated emergency landing strip for the Shuttle, fact.
Never knew that Obs!
Perhaps they just could not make the runway and ended up in the forest. Were the men in silver suits as described by Larry Warren the flight crew. Williams was reported talking to these beings/entities as described, i presume in English!
Again that fits as well.
Was the NASA chap who came to the base part of the enquiry? Was there some Photo recci film taken off the craft and flown to Germany. LW said he saw a 16mm film cannister. Was a spare part flown in from Germany?
NASA guy is Colonel Spring.Still not ascertained which Colonel Spring was there on the nights in question(Two of them around at that time in the USAF)Good point about where the spare parts would come from. Volkswagen?!!
The sketch that Penniston drew is similar to the nose/cockpit section of the Aurora or similar hypersonic spy plane. Check the web sites.
With you there. A good fit so far.
The description by Penniston of a smooth glass like finish could just be the heat resistant ceramic skin of the craft.
The electro atmosphere as described by Penniston and others was a biproduct of its anti gravity system.
Yes ,you would expect that to be charged with atmospheric particles.
The object Larry saw in the field covered all over in what looked like tiles could have been the quilting on a special high speed parachute.
Larry's picture is entirely remaniscent of the front end Tiled Nose Cone of the Shuttle. IE Tiled all over, with the exception his drawing is of a vertical craft
The local prison and one other establisment were put on EVAC standby, so some thing was expected that was in trouble?
Again as you say implies forward planning, warning and a liason of some sort
The lights and dripping molten metal as described by Halt could have been some of its systems going off due to a heavy landing in the forest.
Experimental Tile heat resistant material not quite sticking to the craft and some of the Tiles are loose(no sarcastic comments please) and hence the actual material behind the Tiles or the Tile 'adhesive' is melting?
Leave it there for the moment.

Never say Never.

Obs

All fits together nicely Obs, including the transport plane to load it up afterwards, except; the taking off again and the third night of a Craft (return?) and the multitude of lights seen by Halt.

Still we might be getting a bit nearer. I noticed Ralph Noyes made great play of the Space connection in his 'Factional' book about Rendlesham.

Robert

[robert]

Before the two or three nights theory I seem to remember some of the Journalists reporting that there were two craft and that after one had 'landed' the other came 'down' to effect repairs.

May have been in the News of the World . Can't be sure.

Robert

[Observer]

Come on Robert, Volkswagen? more Audi i think, but if they wanted a trouble free flight they should have gone to Toyota.
Don't forget that the German's were working on anti gravity during the war and that is quite well documented.
I have a theory about the Phoo fighters of the second world war and why the same balls of light are seen today, but another time maybe.
Obs

[Observer]

Just as a point of interest and there may be a connection. Both Russia and the US have been working on the plasma 'wave' [probably the wrong words] technology for hypersonic flight.
In a nut shell the aircraft projects a beam in front of it that alters the molecular structure of the air atoms that it is about to fly through. This in tern reduces the amount of air/suface friction which in turn reduces drag and the airframe temperature and allows for hypersonic flight. Apparently Russia is ahead on this research and has had working models for decades. There are some web sites on this subject.
Obs

[robert]

Heard a similar thing quite some years ago. Before 1996 I think. They were trying to create a vacuum in front of the craft to get rid of air resistance. Never mentioned what they were using to create a vacuum but it sounds very similar in theory to what you are saying.

Maybe Hitler and his Volkswagen company were going to make a Mk 2 version but the Russians got hold of the technology when they got into Berlin first!

Robert

[John Burroughs]

You want to look at what the Germans were working on in WW 2 look at one scientist by the name of Schumann Resonances. Then take a look a closer look at the fact they found out the earth is alive and the effects that ELF has on it !

[Observer]

Yeah, the Schumann resonance theory, was sound waves that can make particles move in different directions. They did a test on TV with sand on a steel plate and bombarded it with a special frequency sound/vibration, all the sand moved into pretty patterns. We did it at school in the science lab.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Go a little deeper and see what effects ELF has and what it can cause!!

[Observer]

John
I have read a lot of the web sites on this subject and it can mess with your head and cause lots of hallucinations etc. etc.
Fist of all why would any body want to do that to just a small number of guys over Christmas and where was the transmissions being sent from? It does not make sense unless of course it was the 'enemy' doing it!!!
Penniston said he heard a 'humming' noise in the forest!! Was ELF being transmitted from the object in the woods although you said you only saw lights not a craft.
Puddle has done more research on this than me.
Obs

[robert]

Synopsis.
A bit long winded I know but basically NATO wern't too happy with the Warsaw Pact in those days. A lot was happening. Poland. Aghanistan invasion. Iraq/Iran. US Hostages, failed rescue of etc.
The withdrawing of Nuclear weapons from NATO by USA.
Plenty of reasons for both sides to be on the 'Edge' at that time.
Enemy intrusive tactics with non leathal, non escalating, but disruptive weapons are a perfectly understandable reaction by either side. An excuse for the Boffins to work their magic at the time?

Robert


http://www.nato.int/docu/comm/49-95/c801211a.htm

Final Communiqué
Chairman: Mr. J. Luns.
Synopsis
Indivisibility of détente - Poland - Berlin - Afghanistan - Iraq-Iran War - Middle East - Warsaw Pact military build-up - Economic assistance to less advanced member countries - South-Eastern flank - CSCE - Conference on Disarmament in Europe - Arms control and disarmament - MBFR - SALT - TNF modernization - Extracts from the Minutes.



I.
The North Atlantic Council met in Ministerial Session in Brussels on 11th and 12th December 1980, against a background of growing uncertainty and tension in international relations.

Ministers agreed on the following:

1. The continuing military build-up of the Soviet Union, its clear willingness, as seen in Afghanistan, to use force in disregard of the principles of the United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Final Act and international law, and the Soviet menace which hangs over Poland give cause for grave concern to the members of the Alliance and to the entire international community.

Allied strength and cohesion are thus essential to the maintenance of stability and peace. United in purpose, the Allies are determined to meet any challenge to the freedom and well-being of their peoples and to make the efforts and sacrifices required for deterrence and defence. In this way they do their part to preserve the basis for détente.

Genuine détente must be worldwide in scope and indivisible. It can succeed only if the Soviet Union strictly abides, in Europe and elsewhere, by the United Nations Charter and the principles of the Helsinki Final Act in their entirety. Allied efforts to persuade the Soviet Union to change its policy from one of intervention in the affairs of other states to one of respect for their sovereignty serve the general interest of the international community. The Allies will keep open channels of communication and be ready to respond positively to concrete steps by the Soviet Union to cease aggressive activities and to restore the basis for constructive East-West relations. In this connection, the Allies remain committed to the pursuit of effective, balanced and verifiable measures of disarmament and arms control.

2. détente has brought appreciable benefits in the field of East-West co-operation and exchange. But it has been seriously damaged by Soviet actions. It could not survive if the Soviet Union were again to violate the basic rights of any state to territorial integrity and independence. Poland should be free to decide its own future. The Allies will respect the principle of non-intervention and strongly urge others to do likewise. Any intervention would fundamentally alter the entire international situation. The Allies would be compelled to react in the manner which the gravity of this development would require. Therefore, the Council will keep the situation under close and continuous review. At the same time, genuine Soviet efforts to restore the confidence necessary for détente will meet with a ready response from the Allies.

3. It is important, particularly in the present circumstances, that the calm situation in and around Berlin should be maintained and that the positive effects of the Quadripartite Agreement of 3rd September 1971 should not be impaired by unilateral measures. The international situation as a whole cannot fail to be affected by the situation in Berlin.

Recent measures introduced by the German Democratic Republic have substantially reduced inner-German travel and have had a particularly adverse effect on travel and visits of Berliners. This development constitutes a setback in the relationship between the two German states. The Allies support the efforts of the Federal Republic of Germany to achieve the withdrawal of these measures so that relations between the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic could develop further in the interest of stability and co-operation in Europe and of those affected.

4. The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is unacceptable. One year after the Soviet invasion, the Afghan people still suffer from repression by foreign troops on their soil. The use of military force by the Soviet government to impose its will on the people of a neutral and non-aligned country belies its oft-repeated professions of friendships for the nations of the Third World, creating distrust about its future intentions. An overwhelming majority of the United Nations General Assembly has again called for the immediate removal of the foreign troops from Afghanistan. Despite the efforts of the Islamic Conference, the quest for a political settlement has made no progress because of Soviet intransigence. Such a settlement must provide for the total withdrawal of Soviet troops and enable the Afghan people to exercise fully their rights of independence and self determination.

More than one million Afghans have been forced by the Soviet occupation to flee their homeland, causing great human suffering and placing a heavy burden on neighbouring countries. In the spirit of the United Nations Resolutions, Allied governments, in common with a number of neutral and non-aligned countries, are contributing to humanitarian aid to alleviate the plight of these refugees.

5. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan has major implications for the whole of South-West Asia, an area of paramount interest to the international community and the security of the Allies. Members of the Alliance are prepared to work for the reduction of tension in the area and, individually, to contribute to peace and stability for the region, while protecting their vital economic and strategic interests.

The Allies deplore the war between Iraq and Iran, which causes further concern for the stability of the affected region. In this connection, they underline the importance of maintaining freedom of navigation.

Recalling positions previously taken by the Council, the Allies reaffirm the need for early achievement of a just, lasting and comprehensive settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

6. The enormous growth over a number of years of Warsaw Pact and in particular Soviet military power gives rise to legitimate concern in Europe and throughout the world. This buildup contradicts the frequent assurances by the Warsaw Pact countries that their aim is not military superiority.

Under present circumstances there is particular need to look to deterrence and defence. The Allies will therefore take, individually or collectively, the defensive measures to meet the growth of Warsaw Pact capabilities and to deter any aggression.

7. The strength of the Alliance lies not only in its defensive capability but also in its cohesion and the readiness of its members to give one another political and economic support. In particular they have greatly benefited from the practice of frank and timely consultations on a broad range of issues. They will vigorously pursue this practice with the object of underscoring their solidarity on all matters affecting their common interests. They will continue Allied programmes to strengthen the economies of the less advanced member countries, undertaken in the spirit of Article 2 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which have gained additional significance and urgency.

The deterioration of the situation in South-West Asia underlines the necessity and urgency of enhancing the defence posture of the South-Eastern flank and of maintaining stability and a balance of power in the Mediterranean region as a whole.

The cohesion of the South-Eastern flank has been strongly reinforced by recent positive decisions regarding this area, and the capability of the Alliance for deterrence and defence has thereby considerably improved. These developments may, at the same time, be considered as a welcome step to the restoration of mutual confidence between Greece and Turkey, and they enhance the prospects for success of the bilateral efforts of the two governments.

8. The Allies attach importance to the process initiated by the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe (CSCE) as a valuable framework for improving security and developing co-operation in Europe on the basis of full implementation of the commitments entered into at Helsinki. They remain committed to the continuation of the CSCE process beyond the present Followup Meeting in Madrid. This meeting is taking place in the shadow of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the continuing suppression of human rights in the Soviet Union and elsewhere, which are clear violations of the principles proclaimed in the Helsinki Final Act. In condemning these violations, as during the thorough discussion of implementation, the Allies are seeking to preserve the integrity of the Final Act, to which they remain dedicated.

In the same spirit, they are presenting important new proposals in all areas covered by the Final Act, including human rights, human contacts and information. In the security area, the Allies strongly support expanding and strengthening confidence building measures within a framework that ensures they will be militarily significant, verifiable and applicable to the entire continent of Europe, including all of the European territory of the Soviet Union. In this regard, recalling their previous declaration in Ankara, the Allies took note that the proposal of the Government of France concerning a mandate for a Conference on Disarmament in Europe, under the aegis of the CSCE, has been tabled in Madrid where it has been welcomed by many delegations.

9. Sharing the widespread international concern at the continuing increase in armed forces and armaments throughout the world, Allied governments have put forward proposals in various fora in which arms control and disarmament are discussed. These efforts are made more difficult if agreements already in force are not fully observed. In this connection, the Allies welcome all constructive efforts by the contracting parties aimed at ensuring the effectiveness of existing accords. The negotiation of new agreements must provide for adequate verification. The Allies will continue to seek agreements establishing greater security for all nations at lower levels of forces and armaments within the United Nations framework and elsewhere.

10. The Allies engaged in the negotiations on Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions remain determined to achieve a more stable and equitable balance of forces in Central Europe through reductions in two phases leading to genuine parity in military manpower in the form of a common collective ceiling, based on agreed data. The Western proposal of December 1979 provides a realistic framework for a mutually beneficial Phase I agreement involving United States and Soviet reductions and associated measures. Although the Eastern countries have recently made some limited moves towards an interim Phase I agreement, as proposed by the West, they have regrettably still not provided the information necessary to reach agreement on the size of the forces of the Soviet Union in Central Europe, which is an essential prerequisite to a Phase I agreement. Nor have the Eastern countries responded adequately to Western proposals concerning associated measures which are designed to ensure verification of force reductions and limitations and to enhance stability

11. Assuring strategic balance between the United States and the Soviet Union is central to the security of the Alliance. The Alliance supports further negotiations and remains deeply committed to the SALT process as a way of achieving meaningful mutual limitations on United States and Soviet strategic nuclear forces that will help enhance Western security and preserve East-West stability.

II.

12. The Allies who participated in the decision of 12th December, 1979 on Theatre Nuclear Forces (TNF), having received a second report from the Special Consultative Group on progress in arms control involving TNF, expressed their satisfaction with the close and fruitful consultations which have taken place within the Group. They noted with satisfaction the serious and substantive character of the recent discussions between the United States and the Soviet Union. These Allies expressed their support for the United States negotiating approach, elaborated in intensive consultations among them on the basis of the December 1979 decision. A date for resumption of US-Soviet exchanges next year will be set through mutual consultations.

The continuing implementation of the modernization element of the December 1979 decision was noted. The Soviet preponderance in longrange TNF (LRTNF) deployments remains cause for serious concern. The SS-20 bases already identified would alone support more warheads than are planned for this entire modernization programme. Allied solidarity in support of both modernization and arms control involving TNF remains key to achieving progress toward agreed limitation. The scale of NATO's long-range TNF requirements will be examined in the light of concrete results achieved through negotiations.

The withdrawal of 1,000 United States nuclear warheads from Europe as an integral part of the LRTNF modernization and arms control decision has been complete