Cobra Mist

[IanR]

As far as the notebook Buren told him to write it all down after we met with him in the Am. He proably put the date he was writing it all down! I don't understand why the time was written down wrong!!!

The problem is that Jim makes it very clear in his interviews that he made those notes in the forest while he was examining the craft, not afterwards. Some people on this Forum have assumed he must have re-encountered the craft on the way back to base, after he had left you. But no one else saw it come back and land, and the way he talks in recent interviews, such as here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9aRPez8kGQ
he gives no indication of a second encounter. He also makes the extraordinary claim that over 80 Air Force personnel witnessed the craft take off. Where does he get that from??

The picture silvertop posted is from my statement. How do you explain that as the lighthouse, planets or stars? Or that I misunderstood what I saw? And yes I have always said I saw lights not a craft and that is what the drawing showed and it is from my original statement and has not changed over the years!

Yes, you have been an admirably consistent witness over the years and I have no quarrel with your statements.

Ian

[FMG]

Thanks Frank for your response about Arnold as I thought evidence weak as water. To return the favour I can answer your question. According to Timothy Good page 331 Need to Know the deep throat was Mike Sacks associate of Harry Harris. So not much of a deep throat! Also look on page 363 there is a report of a Soviet base where a UFO beamed lights on a weapons storage area!

[IanR]

Further to my post above, you can read Penniston's recent statement in its entirety here
http://www.freedomofinfo.org/national_p ... tement.pdf

Ian

[Frank]

And yes I have always said I saw lights not a craft and that is what the drawing showed and it is from my original statement and has not changed over the years!

John, I'm very glad you are following this discussion! I totally agree, both your statement and that of Jim have been consistent over the years. I also believe that both of you tell the truth about what you experienced that night.

What I would really like to know: Were you and Jim at any time seperated from each other during the events that night, and for how long? In know it must be hard to recollect this from memory after thirty years, but it may be the solution to the differences between your story and that of Jim.

Thanks!

[Frank]

So - even though he has the wrong date and time and none of the other USAF or local police personnel saw the supposed craft during his 45-minute examination there is no reason to doubt his word, right?

No, that is not what I meant. Strictly based on the evidence, the following conclusions can be drawn:
1. The part about the first night in Halt's memo is largely based on Jim's account.
2. Jim's notebook was written before Halt wrote his memo. It therefore was part of the event and has not been fabricated afterwards as false evidence. This is what I mean by "genuine piece of evidence".

Now whether the contents of Jim's story and his notebook is true or not remains a matter of personal opinion. I think John and Jim both tell the truth while you seem to have more trouble believing it.

Hopefully John and Jim can help to reconstruct the timeline of the first night.

[John Burroughs]

Frank
On the dates and on the memo. It is clear that the wrong dates were put down and I fought that battle for years and was finally proven right after other documents came to life! There was also 3 nights to this not 2 and if you go to earth files you will see more witness are coming foreword to back this up! It is also clear a attempt was made to lump this in to one event and if you look at Larry Warren early testimony he had everything happening in one night starting with our incident and going into Halts incident. He also told Bruni at one point he was taking picture of Jim and I while we had our encounter! He has also said LT Col Williams had a encounter with aliens and we helped repair there ship! I'm working very hard to get as many witness to come foreword old and new as I can and still would like to get us all together for some kind of reunion. It might surprise you that several of the witness also are having trouble remembering what the date was. On Coast to Coast Thur night a guy who was in the WSA tower on Halts night will be be interviewed and will talk about what he saw from the tower and it was not the light house stars or planets. Ian I think its time you Jim and I go on a radio show and talk about this!! Also Ian its been brought to my attention that you were not the first one to talk about it being the light house! Vince Thurkettle did and you just ran with it and took credit for it!

[Frank]

Thanks, John!

Jim also joined the forum and is answering questions now. It appears that when he actually examined and touched the craft he was so focused on what was happening in front of him that he has trouble recalling whether you were there with him at that moment.

Any memories of Jim examining the craft or of you and Jim being separated that night?

[John Burroughs]

Frank
Jim was the closest to what ever it was! Jim was in charge! Jim has always said from the beggining it was Mechanical in nature! His statement he wrote shows a drawing on it. I beleive the notebook and other drawings came later. As far as him touching somthing he was the closest but I didnot see him touch anything. We did split up for a brief period of time but not for 45 min. I donot beleive he had a different encounter than the one the 3 of us did! Jim has stated on the record go to Earth files last summer when he did a interview with Linda for Coast that I was there when he started to examine whatever it was!

[Frank]

Thanks for you quick and honest reply John!

Just some more questions to really get a clear picture of what was going on.
(Sorry, I don't mean to come across as "interrogating" you, but am trying to picture the scene in my head as clearly as possible)

Can you recall the approximate distance between you and Jim while he was examining the craft?
Did you split up before or after you saw the craft/lights? And for what period (1 min, 5, 15, ..)
Can you recall how much time Jim spent examining the craft?

Thanks in advance!

[John Burroughs]

I never saw Jim examining the craft so I have no Idea how close I was. We split up briefly after what ever it was departed! Again I would have no Idea how long it took for Jim to examine the craft. And you need to go to earth files and Listen to Jim interview last summer! Silvertop can you post that. I was there when he got close to it! John

[IanR]

Ian its been brought to my attention that you were not the first one to talk about it being the light house! Vince Thurkettle did and you just ran with it and took credit for it!

Crikey, John, I don't know how you can have avoided knowing that Vince was the first person to come up with the lighthouse explanation. That is one of its strengths: it was a local, who lived and worked in the forest and was familiar with it but had himself been fooled by the lighthouse. He tells the story of how he was out jogging one night when he was surprised by a flashing light between the trees. Like you, he hit the deck - although in his case he thought it was poachers.

You can find a link to my original BBC TV interview with Vince on this page
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/rendlesham1c.htm

He also told me what the 'landing marks' and the 'burns' on the trees really were. As he says in one of the TV interviews he did, there was nothing unusual about the site at all.

Ian

[John Burroughs]

The same guy who on Camera with Jim and Col Halt said after being showen the landing site by Jim it could not have been the Light house that we saw or encountered!

[IanR]

The same guy who on Camera with Jim and Col Halt said after being showen the landing site by Jim it could not have been the Light house that we saw or encountered!

Ah, but that was because they were at Jim's "alternative" site on the western edge of the forest. This first came out on the Sci Fi channel documentary with Bryant Gumbel in 2003. Jim's claim to have had an encounter at this entirely different site was as much of a surprise to Halt as it was to everyone else. As you know, Halt always had Penniston by his side whenever he did TV interviews, but since then I think he has lost faith in him and they have not appeared together again. From talking to Halt, it's clear that he does not believe in this second landing site. He cryptically says that Jim was "messed with". By this I think he means the supposed interrogation with the sodium pentothal, but I'd say that it was actually the hypnotherapy that did it.

Ian

[John Burroughs]

Ian
So you were there and know where Jim said the landing site was is wrong!

[pupil88]

Hi JB,

I would cut Larry Warren some slack. Remember... he and a few others were held as prisoners, unlawfully held, and subject to psychological torture...Memory and behaviour modification. Are you familiar with the experiments made into a movie called THE mANCHURIAN cANDIDATE? Your attitude towards him is a sign that those modifications were successful.

[IanR]

Ian
So you were there and know where Jim said the landing site was is wrong!

Well, we have Halt's word that Jim's site wasn't the site he investigated. The site Halt investigated was on the eastern side of the forest. You were there that night as well so you must know it was that site.

This site on the eastern edge of the forest was also the site that the police were taken to in daylight after your encounter and which Vince was shown some time later. And we have your word in a posting on this page that you do not believe Jim had a different encounter from yours. Like you, I think the notebook and other drawings came later, but he says the notebook was made at the time (he hasn't yet answered my question about the other drawings). I have been guided by what you and Halt have said, so I think we are all skeptical of Jim's "alternative" site on the western side of the forest, which no one else seems to have known about.

Ian

[larry warren]

I dont need any slack cut for me by any one! but thanks for your acccurat views.
Once again i see john on the attack, and once again armed with inaccurat or incomplet information! with reguard to myself! and i fear that no matter how often john is corrected on
those matters, he will continue to say what he says about me ! i loved the picture one,!
fine and good, John, please present those same views when we do the part two of the rendlesham radio show on CBS in june! i feel it would be an fine forum for you to do what ever it is you are trying to do? and i will answer your charges once again and for the last time.
this is NOT that forum!.
good to see JP correcting the light house fan!
oh on a productive note, i have posted alot of unpublished Bentwaters photos on my Face book page! feel free to have a look.
im just greatful that in my 27 years of keeping this thing out there{no pention you see!}
ive never played the governments game of disparaging other people that went thru this stuff
at bentwaters! and ya know what, its a good feeling.
Cheers Larry

[John Burroughs]

Pupil88 and Larry Warren
I have only posted what Larry has gone on the record saying. I have over and over asked him to clarify those remarks and have been met with a barage of insults or why does it matter I was there and I was the one who got it out. I'm trying to understand why he said what he said and to top it off he also has stated he didnot say there was alien contact and now he is back saying he did. You have been all over the board with this and if you want to say you don't know for sure and have been messed with thats fine! What is the truth Larry do you even know? I'm willing to work with anyone involved when they want to come clean. John

[Frank]

Thanks for the links Silvertop!

I'm on a course the next few days - bad timing ..

Will the unaswered questions in the "Post your questions to Jim" topic be transferred to the "Putting this to bed .." topic?

[larry warren]

OK John, first, im not insulting you nor do i intend to, again i am on the side of the wittinesses
and always will be.
i am happy to cover ANY of your issiues with my account, i feel the radio interview would
be a good area to do that, as typed words can be misunderstood, a real time conversation
between two people cant be beat !
one of the major issiues in this whole thing, is Human issiues! as for on the record statements by me or others, i would caution you to the fact that some writer, researchers on this matter
have agendes, and have caused more problems for this case than any government could hope
too! further, media is not much better, as time passes, you and jim should be awear of this
the more the two of you become public with your account, as you WILL have your words
rearanged aswell.
further some people that occupy this site have agendes and ive been told who they represent
that said i wont go there !in this forum.
wishing you well as always, but isint telling someone to come clean, somthing cops ask
criminals durring interagations?
what are you trying to suggest?
cheers larry warren