Left at East Gate, questions to Larry Warren

[AgentAppleseed]

Larrys event, does not fit with the timeline of events, as they have been established up until now. No matter which way you look at it, Bustinza was with Halt all night, he simply couldnt have been with Larry, and he certainly didnt go out into the field with him. If Bustinza did go out to the field with Larry, then Larrys event must have occurred before Halts event, in order to give Bustinza enough time to rush over to meet Halt for their trip out to the field, and thats ridiculous, for various reasons. Bottom line, Larrys story is John Burroughs story, the full details of which, have probably yet to emerge, and that is why the Air-force mistook Larry Warren for John Burroughs. This also goes to show, that the Airforce knew the whole story, including the part about Burroughs and Bustinza encountering the UFO, at close quarters, on the ground!

[Frank]

Larrys event, does not fit with the timeline of events, as they have been established up until now. No matter which way you look at it, Bustinza was with Halt all night, he simply couldnt have been with Larry,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the timeline in LEAG, Larry's night was 28/29 dec.
LEAG, p39: Early on 28 December, I got away from the base for a day.
Later that day, i.e. the night of 28/29, Larry's encounter takes place.

So we have:
-25/26 dec: Jim, John, Ed
-26/27 dec: The incident with a blue light entering a vehicle
-27/28 dec: Halt's night
-28/29 dec: Larry's night

No need to reconcile Halt's night with Larry's night, then ..

[stephan]

@ AgentAppleseed,

as both people you mention ie. Bustinza and Halt are not involved (at least not officially) in any discussions here on the forum it would be difficult to check your assumptions. I think that the exact timeline cannot be established after all these years anyway unless all witnesses agree about such a timeline or unless there would be documents which put it beyond question. Btw, there may have been even further nights of events later on. As far as I know Steve LaPlume witnessed an incident about three weeks later in 1981 which allegedly also involved General Williams.

[Admin]

he [Bustinza] certainly didnt go out into the field with him [Larry]

Bustinza supports most of what Larry Warren says, which may be why Halt first denied that Bustinza was with the rest of his patrol (Nevels, Ball, Englund etc.). Bustinza describes a yellow ground-fog, in which an object appeared to be sitting. He has also mentioned the object being surrounded by people, some with "camera equipment".

If Bustinza did go out to the field with Larry, then Larrys event must have occurred before Halts event, in order to give Bustinza enough time to rush over to meet Halt for their trip out to the field, and thats ridiculous, for various reasons.

It is complicated. There were several groups of people out there at different times. 'Things' were seen before Halt was in the forest, or even alerted that the UFO had returned.

Larrys event, does not fit with the timeline of events, as they have been established up until now.

It may.

From Battram's perspective:

• First, Greg Battram and "three other guys" were at RAF Woodbridge on a perimeter patrol.
• They saw lights in the sky, which then appeared in the forest - they thought it to be a fire at first.
• I assume CSC are alerted. Bruce Englund may have overheard.
• The four men enter the forest and come across a yellow "fog", unusual lights and static electricity.
• The men "turned around and took off" and met up with (or bumped into) Bruce Englund and others, who were in a vehicle (Battram claims Larry Warren was with them).

From Bustinza's perspective:

• Bruce Englund received, I assume, radio reports stating that there were lights in the forest.
• Englund alerts Halt, interrupting the Combat Support Group dinner. Halt departs on his own to change clothes.
• Bustinza drives Englund to the forest, collecting Bobby Ball on the way.
• Now at the forest, they meet with Greg Battram and others, who report a strange mist and unusual lights.
• Bustinza drives Englund to collect and refuel 'light-alls'.
• Halt arrives, begins recording his tape. Bustinza is heard over radio.
• Bustinza returns and apparently joins Halt's group. He remembers standing next to Nevels at one point.

When Bustinza was interviewed by Larry Fawcett on 20 April 1984, he confirmed that a craft had landed in the field, which later "turned into a ball of light" and "flew toward the wooded area." One of the point's I am making is that Bustinza was not with Halt the whole time. He was with the group at some point, but I am not sure how long. This would explain how he and John were able to meet up.

In "Left At East Gate", Larry Warren claims that he was picked up by Bruce Englund and Adrian Bustinza, who went to deal with the 'light-alls' and then continued to the forest. Essentially, it fits. The only problem is that the above 'timeline' merges the second and third nights together.

[AgentAppleseed]

Im sorry! I really, really am; but all of my conclusions are based on the evidence available in the public domain. There is nothing wrong with the logic I used to come to the conclusions I have. Everything I have said is based on what people said, and when they said it recently and over the course of the last thirty years.
If you read back through this thread, and watch the video posted, there is enough evidence even there, to back up what I say about Larrys encounter vs Bustinza, and Burroughs encounter. Larrys event is completely disjointed from the rest of the nights events.I think we all agree on one thing at least; Larry needs to explain the situation!

[John Burroughs]

Well here is the problem with that! England was in the Forrest with Nevils working for Conrad and Zickler! Larry has stated they came and got him out of the Barracks like a recall and posted him on a PP post. Bustinza right something did go down into the field and there was a ball of light that did fly into the woods after some of it exploded into the small balls of light! Adrian said Williams was never out there just Halt. It was Adrian and I who was out in the open field.Why did the government think it was me who was telling the story not Larry? Larry was running around talking about what happened in the field not I! It shows the government was aware of what happened in the field! If you look at what Halt has said he talks about the object exploding into more than one object! Larry has stated he was covering for Bustinza that they agreed the story needed to come out and Larry would be the one to tell his story! And Larry Adrian was not on my flight and to top it off was security and I was LE. I also lived downtown so that was the first time I was with Adrian as far as I guess you would call it working with him!

[Frank]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the timeline in LEAG, Larry's night was 28/29 dec.
LEAG, p39: Early on 28 December, I got away from the base for a day.
Later that day, i.e. the night of 28/29, Larry's encounter takes place.

So we have:
-25/26 dec: Jim, John, Ed
-26/27 dec: The incident with a blue light entering a vehicle
-27/28 dec: Halt's night
-28/29 dec: Larry's night

It seems you missed this earlier post (?)
According to the dates mentioned in LEAG, Larry had his encounter on the night following Halt's night.
Bustinza was a witness on both Halt's and Larry's night.

But maybe Larry can clear things up a bit?

[John Burroughs]

There were only 3 nights so nothing happened on the 28/29 December. Halt got the date wrong at one point Larry had everything happening in one night he stated he was called out to the forest after Jim ED and I incident started!

[AgentAppleseed]

Im aware of your post Frank, and I am also aware that over the years, different claims have been made, as to how many nights there were. For the last few years now, due to dilligent work on behalf of a lot of people, the incident has generally been accepted as being a three night event. We are talking about Halts night here. There doesnt seem to be any way at all for Larrys event to have occurred on Halts night. Larry needs to comment.

[Frank]

OK, just based this on LEAG and on the contents of the website hosting this forum (the old website, the new one is not finished yet - http://rendlesham-incident.co.uk/old/rendlesham.php). Unfortunately, the night of 28/29 december is called the third night there.

It would explain a lot, though. My devious mind was already developing a conspiracy theory: Maybe the date error in Halt's memo was deliberate, to shift the first three nights over Larry's night. This would create the perfect coverup of the most problematic night (that of Larry). It would also mean that Halt's memo was a deliberate action and Larry was destined to uncover it (how did Larry know the memo even existed in the first place? Had somebody passed this info to him 'by accident'?). Talking about devious conspiracy theories eh..?

[stephan]

It was Adrian and I who was out in the open field.Why did the government think it was me who was telling the story not Larry? Larry was running around talking about what happened in the field not I! It shows the government was aware of what happened in the field! If you look at what Halt has said he talks about the object exploding into more than one object! Larry has stated he was covering for Bustinza that they agreed the story needed to come out and Larry would be the one to tell his story! And Larry Adrian was not on my flight and to top it off was security and I was LE. I also lived downtown so that was the first time I was with Adrian as far as I guess you would call it working with him!

would make sense if that was true. You said that back then you and the other witnesses (except Adrian and Larry) had no desire to go public with what happened to you. So Adrian and Larry decided that the story was simply too big to be swept under the carpet. I would have agreed with them to be honest! And if Adrian was too shy or too anxious to go public himself they decided that Larry would tell his (Adrian's) and your (John's) story because you two were together out there and because both of you told your stories to him. Tricky, and if true, wow.

[stephan]

how did Larry know the memo even existed in the first place? Had somebody passed this info to him 'by accident'?

you'll find the answer to that here:

The memorandum first surfaced in June 1983, after a Freedom of Information request from CAUS (‘Citizens Against UFO Secrecy’) who were only aware of Larry Warren’s story at the time. When the document was finally released, CAUS forwarded a copy to one of their investigators, Robert Todd, who we assume began circulating the document.

So Larry caused CAUS to obtain the memo. Without Larry no memo - at least not at that point in time.

[John Burroughs]

Larry started talking about the incident after he was discharged from the Air Force and one of the groups he was working with got the memo released through freedom of information! I never got with Larry and told him to talk about what happened! According to Larry Adrian and him got together in there dorm talked about it and Larry was the one chosen to get it out! I met with Larry in LA because Brubaker had both of us fly out to talk about doing a show! I didn't tell him to talk about what happened!One thing that catches my eye is why was Larry filled in about what happened to me before he departed Bentwaters? I'm not saying it didn't happen but why would he do that? The person who did that was the same person who told Bruni that if Adrian said he was out in the field with Halt then he was. Halt was trying to say both Adrian and I were not out there. After the tape came out he had problems with that story. He also is on tape saying to Larry and Peter when he was discussing with them who was out there saying it was Burroughs who came foreword not you. The date and story was put out to mislead so was the stories that went out into the pub! Larry did what he felt he had to do. Its very easy mixing up dates times and other things that happened when your trying to cover for somebody else! Does that mean he was not out there that night no it just means what part did he play while he was out there! If its Bustinza story we helped repair the ship not Larry and mind control on being taken under ground that who was in the party that Larry said surround the craft who was in charge of the team and what happened when they did?

[stephan]

Does that mean he was not out there that night no it just means what part did he play while he was out there! If its Bustinza story we helped repair the ship not Larry and mind control on being taken under ground that who was in the party that Larry said surround the craft who was in charge of the team and what happened when they did?

so you confirm that Larry was out there, correct ? I think that's very important. What exactly do you mean by ''what part did he play'' ? As far as I understand he did not do anything, just observed things. If part of his observations were actually those of you or Adrian it would be also very interesting and important to know which those particular observations are. One thing - the part where you allegedly rode on the UFO and which probably did not even happen in this way - was not observed by him as we have recently found out. But the ''beings'' part and the UFO sighting itself are certainly his own experiences, maybe a few details were added by others but which are those details.

[John Burroughs]

No I never saw him out there!According to Larry it was Bustinza who had that experience so I'm not sure where he fit in or who was with him! He said it was Bustinza who said we helped repair the ship with Williams not him! He also has now said he just threw in the British commander name! So who was out there when did this encounter happen where was Bustinza England and Halt? Who was in charge and what were they doing? By saying I never saw him out there does not mean he was not out there and I would like to know more about who was and what happened! Its clear in Larry posting it happened on the 3rd night Halts night! But I will say this Bustinza and my encounter happened out in the open field not in the staging area as Larry has been saying!

[stephan]

have you tried to contact Adrian so he could help clearing up things ?

here's what Larry said earlier this thread about the repair issue and re Q9:

Busty is a great guy, i was with him, he NEVER told me to tell his experiance, im not a dummy

[...]

i dont know what to say about the repair bit, it does not make alot of sense to me. further what happened to him and john was after i went back to base and he never discused that with me, as far as i can recall, would he mak things up? if so there was a reason.lets call them threats perhaps.

[larry warren]

Man, go to work and get home to this? Steve to date you are the only one that has read my book, why do i say that? because
the way john twists stuff up, i wasent pulled from the dorm, to go to the woods, i was told his close contact happened at the parking area, i dident know other wise ! Halt has finally said i was there on the paul eno show, ! further steve i was not knocking your experiance at all, just lettin settle down a bit , i think you have tracked this much better than some of the others our date in the BOOK is a best estamate at the time we wrote it, all ive ever known is that it was after Xmas and before
new years, at the time that date worked for me, not for you all, tough.
Look we named names in the BooK, if my account does not fit this time line thing its really not my problem, as i to have a time line, big deal! if some of you think im stupid and told Bustys tail great, if you think i was in it for the money, great !
(it was the woman) if ya think im a stone cold lier, thats cool, perhaps im CIA and jackin ya around? hmmmmmmmmm
its not an issiue for me, what i dont do well appleseed is take an ultamatum from any one! ,can you dig it man ! so you are history to me ok! Steve, you got down man, and you have used the BOOK as a counter balence, and a tool, good work.

[AgentAppleseed]

Larry, no ones giving you an ultimatum of any kind. Your story, as you have explained it here in this thread, does not add up. I havent called you a liar, or claimed your C.I.A or anything else. I have too much respect for you to say any of that to you. What I want to know is, how does what you have to say make any sense ,in light of what youve said yourself, throughout this thread and in your book. All I want is an answer to the contradiction I have illustrated in this thread. Thats all, just an answer that makes sense of the situation. Its not much to ask, Larry.

[larry warren]

Damn, one more thing ! john, as written in the BOOK, as explained adnauseum, and even to LMH, when i talk about telling bustys experiance, its the underground bit that was mindcontrol, when he denide it happened to him but happened to me i put i back on him, its been explained over and over, the majority remaine silent, why dont you simply call me a lier! discount all the evidence i brought to the table (Caple Green) ect ect physical damage, documents all of it , just say we made it all up and move on dude, at least we wont have to engage in these repetitve internet exchanges! as to some others on this you do the same, DISPROVE, my evidance, and call those that said i was there liers, life is to short for this geek crap. cheers

[larry warren]

Ive said this before aswell, i dident start telling about this AFTER i left the service John ! i told my mother in a phone call with battram the next am, then in a letter dated jan, 6th 81. so i was trying to fool my mother? 30 years of this crap, id rather eat a bag of crystal meth, and appletree or seed, ive delt with pasive agressive folks for years, see them at 1000 yards sorry
its the new york in me, stick with what ever version you like! further i never ran around talking about this Either, again discount what happened to me and some others, ! i , and im sure they thank you.