Possible John Burroughs visit summer 08

[puddlepirate]

JB. Excellent. Thanks.

I understand the C-5 was parked in an out of the way area and had its own security. Given the activity that followed its arrival - vehicles coming and going to the forest etc. Was anything actually loaded before it departed? I'm intrigued that the biggest airlift aircraft in the entire US fleet calls in at Bentwaters, appears not of offload anything, yet activity increases whilst it's there. Then just two days later it departs. If nothing was offloaded then something big, bulky and very heavy was probably onloaded - or why use a C-5? Did activity in the forest cease after the C-5's departure?

Thanks again

[John Burroughs]

I would say it could have been the vehicles and Helicopters and was not allowed out in the area it was parked. And yes the activity stoped after it left.

[redsocks]

John surely you know that the C-5's deliver weaponry to the bases to be put straight into the HAS vaults for quick arming and bomb storage,which is why the C-5 would have been at Bentwaters and had so much security, the security is immense I have seen this for myself hence all the activity,it simply did its usual delivery which it does to bases worldwide.I know you know this if you were with the 81st security.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Good point redsocks

I do know that NW are rotated back to the factory or where ever they are serviced on time schedules. This would account for the strict security round the C-5. and people inspecting the WSA at Bentwaters. The C-5 would have its own weapon conveyer vehicle complete with crews and a inspection team. I've seen it done myself [at a distance] and they ride shot gun on the conveyer with armed guards. The RAF had a similar protocol but it was all done with vehicles, not transport aircraft in the UK.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

It was not scheduled and Halt would have been allowed access to what was going on. Also we would have been involved in any kind of security and Halt has stated somthing happened to the codes!!

[Observer]

This gets better,

Perhaps the C-5 brought in [un scheduled] some new types of weapons that required the WSA to have new security codes. I think Halt knows what they were.

Obs

[Wolf]

John surely you know that the C-5's deliver weaponry to the bases to be put straight into the HAS vaults for quick arming and bomb storage,which is why the C-5 would have been at Bentwaters and had so much security, the security is immense I have seen this for myself hence all the activity,it simply did its usual delivery which it does to bases worldwide.I know you know this if you were with the 81st security.

HAS Vaults? Do you mean the WS3 system? If you do this was not installed at the twinbases.

See previous thread - http://rendlesham-incident.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=310&start=0

V/R

Wolf

[Wolf]

Also we would have been involved in any kind of security and Halt has stated somthing happened to the codes!!

As LE would you have been involved with weapons security and have had clearance to enter the WSA? I suppose maybe if a 15/5 or 30/30 was called, but on a daily basis or fro special duties?

V/R

Wolf

[John Burroughs]

I worked with Security rode to work with 2 Security guys and LE guarded the NSMA right across from Hot Row spent many mid night shifts in there. The codes Halt was talking about dealt with the munitions. And we would have went in on a 30/30 not a 15/5 security would have done that. We would have taken care of the airfield and a recall would have taken care of the 30/30......

[Andy]

John, you must often think 'Jeezus... what did i do to deserve this? I was only minding my own business and doing my job.' Really do appreciate your continued interest and help though. Your presence to the forum is an assett, appreciated, and much valued.

[puddlepirate]

Hi JB in one of your previous posts you mentioned:

It came in on Sunday night right after Sat night. On Monday night Tues night and Wed night I was posted on the East gate from 3-11. Gate was usually closed at 6 but left was opened because there was all kinds of activity going on in the woods. I beleive I posted this earlier. I was posted there because I was involved in the past incidents. I was ordered not to call anthing in on the radio just to use the phone. I also was ordered not to talk about anything I saw going on.

I'd just like to clarify the following to make sure I understand the sequence of events etc correctly:

The C-5 arrived at Bentwaters on Sunday 28th Dec, departed Wednesday 31st Dec (New Years Eve).
Activity in the forest commenced upon arrival of C-5 on night of Sunday 28th, ceased on departure of C-5 on Wednesday 31st Dec.
You were posted to East Gate (Woodbridge) from 1500 - 2300 (or 0300 to 1100?) on the Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday 29th to 31st Dec.
Gate usually closed at 6pm but remained open due to activity in woods which included helicopters flying overhead with searchlights and vehicles going into the forest.

My questions are:

Did vehicles pass through the east gate at Woodbridge?
Were the helo's from Woodbridge or Bentwaters?
If the vehicles / helo's arrived in the C-5, then they must have been driven/flown over from Bentwaters - is that correct?
The east gate service road is now unlit and the trees stand further back from the service road than in 1980. Was the service road lit in Dec 1980?
If the vehicles didn't pass through the east gate, was it possible to identify from the east gate guardroom, the types of vehicles being driven into the forest if they came along the road that passed the end of the Woodbrige runway, past Folly House?
Where they jeeps, pick-ups or larger trucks?
Were any vehicles fitted with lifting equipment such as crane jibs etc.?
If aircraft were up then a flyco was probably activated - was this the Bentwaters or Woodbridge tower or perhaps both?

...lastly, given the location of the east gate guard room, was it considered a 'spooky' place to be at night/early hours of the morning?

[Andy]

Forgive me here (and probably talking s***e, so as said, forgive me), as it's a while since being totally engrossed in the incident and having freshly gained reading and information in my head (and retained it), but now would need to refer to notes. However:
Roughly, this incident(s) spanned from the 26/12/80 - roughly 30/12/80.
Four days/nights?
I might have dreamt this but seem to recall Halt saying you spent time out camping in the forest post incident as you were so traumatised by it? Looking for UFO's. On the night of Halt's incident, just a day or two later, (again i might be wrong) but i seem to recall reading you were off duty but some sort of sixth sense/feeling (for want of a better word) told you something was going on, and you returned to the forest? And that's where your second UFO encounter took place?

I know it was a long time ago now, but
1. Did you camp out in the forest post initial incident?
2. Do you still have a copy of your duty rota from the 26th -30th period?

[Observer]

Hi all

This forum is very lucky to have John Burroughs as a witness. He is the only one from that incident that has seen fit to join this forum and he is our star witness. However, we should all remember that he is not in the 'dock' or on trial or at a courts martial.
Some times our questioning can be a little intense and throwing whole rafts of questions at John in one post is a little unfair. Put yourself in his shoes and see how you would feel.
We need John's input and so far he has been great but i suggest that we ask him fewer questions per post to give the poor lad some breathing space.

Obs

[redsocks]

John surely you know that the C-5's deliver weaponry to the bases to be put straight into the HAS vaults for quick arming and bomb storage,which is why the C-5 would have been at Bentwaters and had so much security, the security is immense I have seen this for myself hence all the activity,it simply did its usual delivery which it does to bases worldwide.I know you know this if you were with the 81st security.

HAS Vaults? Do you mean the WS3 system? If you do this was not installed at the twinbases.

See previous thread - http://rendlesham-incident.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=310&start=0

V/R

Wolf

Wolf I must be carefull what I say here as I too have signed the official secrets act and some of you know my involvement with security with the USAF.I know CND know about this so its ok to say,Some HAS'S have a vault for quick nuclear arming of the jets,all hell breaks loose security wise when these HAS's are "armed",let me tell you any problems they have with these HAS'S results in some serious activity, I was "jacked up" four times when I was at work and having a loaded rifle stuck in your face is no joke especially when its done by some nervous kid.................

Redsocks

Redsocks

[Observer]

Redsocks

Graham Haynes is probably the best person to explain the protocols of Bentwaters nuclear capability. From what i understand, the NW stored there were not for the A-10 based there but for other aircraft such as the F-15 Strike Eagle and F-16 ground attack variants that would move in when the A-10's had moved to forward positions in Germany. The NW at Bentwaters would then be fitted to these aircraft for ops over Europe.

From my memory, no squadron of either type occupied either base over the period in question.
Perhaps Graham can help us understand this.

Obs

[ghaynes]

That's correct Observer. Won't elaborate anymore as this has been discussed already on this forum.
Redsocks, as Wolf has already stated, none of the HAS's at Bentwaters/Woodbridge have vaults etc. for quick arming of nukes etc. This was not a requirement for A-10s.

Graham

Redsocks

Graham Haynes is probably the best person to explain the protocols of Bentwaters nuclear capability. From what i understand, the NW stored there were not for the A-10 based there but for other aircraft such as the F-15 Strike Eagle and F-16 ground attack variants that would move in when the A-10's had moved to forward positions in Germany. The NW at Bentwaters would then be fitted to these aircraft for ops over Europe.

From my memory, no squadron of either type occupied either base over the period in question.
Perhaps Graham can help us understand this.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Puddlepirate
Here goes came in the 28th at around 6:00pm. Activity was on 29 and 30. I was posted on gate 29-31. Gate was open late on 29and 30th I was posted 1500-2300. )On 31st 1500- 1800. Yes, Yes. Next set of questions Yes, Both, Yes, Don't remember forsure but I think only the gate area was lit,can't say or identify what came from the plane. Can say some of the Helo were from 67th. Can't say, Both Yes it was spokey there was a story about east gate charlie and when it got foggey it was a real evail feeling place. Also about the codes everybody talks about the only thing I know is Halt said the beames effected the codes on the munitions....

[John Burroughs]

Andy
No I didnot camp out in the woods and I was off duty and in Civ cloths on Halts night. No I don't have a copy...

[Observer]

John
That's interesting what Halt said about the beams affecting the munitions codes. The only science i know of that can do that is an EMP beam or wave. Remember the rumours about local cars at Orford having ignition trouble. Usually associated with electronic ignition systems or solid state circuits.

Its a science that does exist, but back in the 80's as an effective weapon?

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Not sure but sure would like to no more about that site that sits outside Bentwaters plus were there any 747 that were in the area working with the military.....