Underground Facility

[SouthyR1]

Does anyone have any info regarding the underground complex at bentwaters/woodbridge?? it is relevant to the case as Larry Warren and others were taken to this complex.
Someone must know someone who was involved to making this facility as tunnels dont dig themselves!! its an interesting subject to think about.
I have been to rendlesham once and went on the ufo trail, and as mentioned by someone else on the forum who also took photos of it there is a concrete structure in the middle of the forest!! whats it doing there??, does it connect to the tunnels below? also the concrete manhole covers dotted along the trail? are they there for a reason or were they used, as described in Warrens book, for secret test as in the cloud buster?
Surely, with the freedom of information act we should be allowed access to what is under these bases, what they were used for, and most inportantly, are they still being used.
I did find an article which stated that one of the bases was being used as a industrial estate? but why would an industrial estate have security on the gate? i work on an industrial estate, we dont have security!!
Either its to stop people snooping around?, or its so the complex and the buildings which connect to it on top are being used by companies for the use of the underground complex, and running a ligitamet?? buisness on top?
In Warrens book he said that during a shift change, the shift taking over were told that a man had been spotted in the Weapoms Storage Area, they crew taking over pretty much spent the whole shift looking for him!! could the WSA be connected, and could they be connected to the structure in the forest, and even the concrete man holes?? Were they used to move weapons underground? if so we should have knowledge of this? Moving Tactical weapons underground?? i would want to know about it!!

[Observer]

Hi

According to the curator of the Bentwaters aviation museum, there are no under ground tunnels ot bunkers. He has worked on the base when it was active and since closure as the curator. He knows every square inch of the base and has access to all areas. He is a friend and i have no reason to doubt his word. Bentwaters is privately owned and the owners who have sub let some buildings for various enterprises have seen fit to keep up a level of security only as a crime prevention.

Secondly, there were no nuclear weapons stored at RAF Woodbridge only Bentwaters had them as the HOT ROW storage system which was installed by MOD contractors was only at Bentwaters.

The tunnel entrance described by Larry Warren and Georgina Bruni in their books is the door way to the aviation museum's store room.

If you don't believe all this then get yourself a conducted tour by the museum's curatore who will put you straight.

He finds most of our theories about the twin bases quite amusing.

Observer

[SouthyR1]

Thanks for the info, will probably do what you suggested. Still doesnt answer the question about the man holes, brick bunker in middle of forest? they are there for a reason, but what??
Not knocking your claims, but if Halt and others were sworn to secrecy, does this mean your friend would have to abide by these rules himself if he was stationed at the base? If there is something connected to the incident then it should be brought up. This incident happened a year before i was born, and i will be interested in it until im no longer here!! It is fasinating to think that something happened, and by reading books, everyone comes up with their own theory.
As for mine, i dont no what conclusion to come to? I do believe something happened in the forest and it just so happened that military personnel were involved, but as it has been said many a times, they were not making it up, why would they?, for the sake of risking their own reputations?? Government know something happened, but what? Other accounts i have read on the site include a wind up by the APRS who were stationed there, plausible story but again wouldnt they risk court marshal for doing things like that? Then we come to Larry Warren, i have read his book from front to back, twice, and if what he says is true then we all should wonder, why did he not get the same treatment as Halt? Not being allowed to talk about it etc. If he is able to write a book why cant Halt say what he knows?
I hope nothing i have said has offended anyone? If it has i apoligise, but, for me to come to my own conclusion, and it will take a while, and a visit to the museum as suggested, i am establishing all the facts.

[Observer]

Hi SouthyR1

The man holes and brick bunker in the forest are not that significant. I think that Admin can enlighten you on these.

My friend who worked at Bentwaters was a British civilian contractor.

It has been suggested that Lt Col Halt is not telling the whole story because he is protecting his military pension.

The ARRS HH53 crew who i think pulled off this 'caper' were transferred out of the UK not long after the incident. The Apollo training capsule was also shipped out not long after.

Quite a few statements in Larry's book Left at East Gate have not been substantiated by other witnesses.

The 5 balls of light seen by most witnesses has yet to be explained.

It often pays to talk to people who are not UFO believers or are part of the discussion forums just to broaden the scope of enquiry. You thus get new angles on things that should be included in the investigation.

I would love this event to have been an alien visit, who wouldn't, but i see more and more evidence suggesting it was a man made incident.

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Admin

Nice to see you on the forum and thanks for the pictures.

I asked the Bentwaters aviation museum curator a straight question. I said is there or had there been an underground bunker system at Bentwaters. If there was had it been sealed up.
His answer was no and he could not see any place that remotely looked like it had been sealed up. He then quoted his store room door as the one that Larry Warren had said was the entrance to the bunker.

He again pointed out that he has access to all areas and knows every square inch of the old base. He also remarked that he would have known about any sealing up operation as he lives locally and was involved with the base before it closed and subsequently after it closed.

I suggest that those who suspect there is a bunker make an appointment with the curator who will show you round so you can see for yourself.

Observer

[SouthyR1]

Again, thank you again for all the contributions to help me piece together what i think happened.
I cant help coming back onto my original theory of an underground complex and that it did have something to do with the case.
Yes, the curator says there isnt one, but that cant be concrete evidence.
I have been looking at other pages on the web regarding underground complexs, RAF Rudloe Manor being one of them.
I do remember visiting this place when i was in the local Fire Cadet group and went on a trip to Wiltshire to visit the fire service training college. We visited Rudloe, we went down with a fire officer into a part of the complex that stored bottles of wine for clients, some in the region of £1000, as the humidity was controlled and the wine was preserved.
Now to the point, they say this complex is not used for anything, apart from when i was younger and i visited, but, the security mentioned in other pages i read says that the guards on the gate etc were armed, and some people taking photos were held at their position while there identity was checked!! There is rumour that the queen would be taken here in the event of a nuclear dispute? whether this is true or not i dont know. You can find these pages by seaching for Rudloe Manor on google.
But that brings me back to Bentwaters, an underground complex like this can exist, with out knowledge of others, including the curator.
The pictures in Warrens book clearly show a mound with ventilation shafts protruding through the top, what are they for??
Im not saying anyone is not telling the truth, but for me, i do believe there is something there, until i get concrete, visual, or written proof that this is the case, then so be it.
In light of this, adding it all together, i will eventually come up with a theory, but i do believe IF there is a complex under Bentwaters, i think i definatly has something to do with the case!
It would make perfect sense to have a underground facility at this location, due to where it is, the volume of people working on the base in the event of an attack, and the ammount of hardware that it housed, ie A10's etc.
I have read rumourous times that the SR71 made landings on a secure flight line at either Bentwaters or Woodbridge? It was then lowered into a classified hanger, well if it was lowered, where was it lowered to??
No-one, including Military personell at the bases were allowed anywhere near it, why?, i know from research that the material it was made from was so loose that fuel would leak out of it, until it reached a certain tempurature and would seal itself up, so when it landed it would be red hot!!, possibly the safest time to lower it in to a hanger when it wasnt spilling it fuel load everywhere and when no one would be able to get near it.
I am not judging any of the comments that have been left, nor am i disputing what the curator has told anyone about there not being nothing there. The fundamental conclusion is: No one can prove nothings there but also no one can prove there is something there.

[Observer]

Hi SouthyR1

Your post is interesting, however, i think you should consider one or two things before you get too enthusiastic about under ground bunkers and now a subterranean hanger for the SR-71.

Bentwaters did receive the occasional visit from the SR-71 as did Woodbridge which was much more often than Bentwaters. For the record, the U-2 and the earlier RB-57 Spy planes also visited RAF Woodbridge.

Woodbridge was initially considered by the CIA as it was very secluded.
Due to the then politics between the US and GB, neither base was used as the British government at that time was over sensitive to spy flights taking place by US aircraft from British soil over Soviet territory.

By 1980, most spying was by satelite over the soviet union as over flying was too risky. Spy flights over other parts of the world was a different matter.

In later years this policy changed and USAF/CIA spy flights took place from other RAF/USAF bases such as Boscombe Down and Mildehall.

With this in mind, i cannot see a multi million Dollar under ground hanger being built at either base just to house a spy plane that was at best going to visit perhaps twice a year.

As for the under ground bunker system at Bentwaters, don't take my word for it, go to the museum, ask the curator to show you around and make your own mind up.

He will if you talk to him nicely, give you a tour of the base where you can ask him what the different structures scattered around the air field are.

Regards

Observer

[Wolf]

RE - The pictures in Warrens book clearly show a mound with ventilation shafts protruding through the top, what are they for??

Hi SoutheyR1

From memory the mounds that are pictured in LW's book are earth covered fuel storage tanks. There are several around the east and south east parts of the base, along with the associated fuel regulation and pumping systems.

V/R

Wolf

[Wolf]

Just another point, all military flightlines are secure areas. The term flightline was normally used to describe the technical side of Bentwaters, as the domsetic site is seperated from the technical site by a public road.

There was talk of Bentwaters having the underground WS3 weapons survivability and storage system, but this never happened, but I believe that the system was installed in some of the TABS (HAS) on Lakenheath.

See - http://www.bits.de/public/pressreleases/pr290501e.htm for more gauge on the subject.

V/R

Wolf

[Wolf]

As for the under ground bunker system at Bentwaters, don't take my word for it, go to the museum, ask the curator to show you around and make your own mind up.

He will if you talk to him nicely, give you a tour of the base where you can ask him what the different structures scattered around the air field are.

Has anyone got an email address for the museums curator? PM me if you have.

V/R

Wolf

[Observer]

Hi Wolf

Graham Haynes is the curator and his e mail address is:ghaynes@pathways1.freeserve.co.uk

If this does not work get back to me.

Observer

[Wolf]

Many thanks

V/R

Wolf

[ghaynes]

Hi Wolf

Graham Haynes is the curator and his e mail address is:ghaynes@pathways1.freeserve.co.uk

If this does not work get back to me.

Observer

Interesting! I am not the curator.....we don't have a curator at the museum. I'm the Technical Advisor and the person responsible for starting the museum project seven years ago. Now my attention has been brought to this thread, there are a few points I would like to clear up. First of all, I was never employed at Bentwaters as a civilian contractor. I served in the RAF for nine years as a radar/avionics engineer on the F-4 Phantom. My only connection to Bentwaters prior to starting the museum, writing a book etc. was as an aviation enthusiast.
As such, in response to SouthyR1's comment, I have nothing to hide about Bentwaters and I am not subject to any 'rules.' I have only ever stated my own findings and theories.......the ARRS capsule being a theory that was started at the museum a very long time ago.
Observer, no offence, but please get your facts right in future posts. I have never met you and only corresponded with you a few times outside this group. I have absolutely no idea how you thought that I worked at Bentwaters when the base was operational.
Yes, I may know virtually every square inch of the base and no, there are no signs of underground bases. The owners of Bentwaters have also come to the same conclusion, having gone to great lengths to find one!
Anyway, to clear up some SR-71 info in this thread....no SR-71 ever landed at Woodbridge and the type only ever landed at Bentwaters twice (both occasions being weather diverts from Mildenhall). I can find out the dates from the museum archives if anyone's interested but they were both approx. mid 80s. I find the suggestion of a subterranean SR-71 hangar at Bentwaters or Woodbridge very bizarre since the Det. 4 hangar at it's home base (Mildenhall) was just a 'normal' hangar. Think it even had an SR-71 painted on the front of it!
Thanks for the PM Wolf. I'll see what I can sort out for you.
Regards.

Graham

[ghaynes]

For the record, the U-2 and the earlier RB-57 Spy planes also visited RAF Woodbridge............................

Hi Observer,
Do you have any evidence of this? I would be very interested for some info as, as far as I'm aware these two types have never visited Woodbridge? I've certainly never seen any photos and we have nothing in our museum archives to back this up.
Think your RB-57s were in fact the EB-57Es assigned to Air Defense Command’s 17 Defense Systems Evaluation Squadron (DSES) from Malmstrom AFB, Montana. Four of these aircraft deployed to Woodbridge on 14 May 1978 until 13 June 1978 for Exercise Dawn Patrol.
The previous year (13th April 1977) also saw five Martin EB-57Es deploy to Bentwaters for Exercise Dawn Patrol (yep....same exercise name!). The aircraft involved were 55-4278, 55-4280,55-4287,55-4290 and 55-4292. The EB-57Es departed to NAS Sigonella, Sicily in early May, along with a number of 81st TFW F-4Ds. All aircraft had returned to Bentwaters approx. two weeks later and the EB-57Es returned to CONUS on 29th May.
Regards.

Graham

[Observer]

Hi Graham

Wow, a lot of questions, i will try to address them to the best of my knowledge.

Firstly, in your first post you mention that i said you worked at the bases [Bentwaters].
As far as i can remember, i never said that, i said you had been 'involved' with one of the bases meaning that you either had an interest in them or had possibly visited them. I didn't mean to imply with the word involved that you worked there.

I used the word 'curator' loosely as i have no idea what your position was at the museum. It was a word that our readers could associate with a museum and a knowledgable figure head that could be approached for techinical and historic information. The word curator was an accademic appointment by me and i appologise if it offended.

It was a friend who had told me about the SR-71 visiting these bases and he had led me to believe that it was Woodbridge. As it turns out he was wrong, and as you say, it was Bentwaters on 2 occasions for a weather divert from Midenhall.

Again it was an aircraft spotter friend living local to the bases that informed me of the B-57 [whatever derivitive] and the U-2.
The Royal Observer Corps were given to believe that Woodbridge was considered for U-2 Ops, Local spotters had remarked that a couple of night ops were tried out but i cannot substanciate this or find the person who said it, it was in the late 60's or early 70's.

Regards

Obserever

[SouthyR1]

Wow, its great to see alot of replies going on my post.
Firstly, as i have said before, i still believe that there is something under Bentwaters/Woodbridge. Its interesting to read that Graham has said the new owners of the bases have tried, but failed to find any evidence that there is an underground facility.
What did they do?, just have a nose around??
If anyone has seen the channel four program Time Team, you will see that they use equipment to scan for any abnormalities in the soil under the earth and by reconstructing this they know where to dig a trench etc.
Secondly, if this is The Biggest UFO case in Britian, dont you think someone, whether it be a university, a private researcher who has access to this equipment, go down to the bases and try. In Warrens book he says he spoke to someone who had access to all areas on the base and states that there were two water tanks, which to him looked like dummy tanks, and if a crane was brought in to remove them, then there might be something underneath???!!.
Again, i am very sure there is something there, whether it may be connected to the incident, which i believe it is.
And finally, a bit off the point, but why did the military have two RAF bases near enough next to each other, and were they shut at the same time??
I live about 25 miles from RAF coltishall that was only shut last year, i think, so why shut two large bases and leave Coltishall operational?
The only bases which i am aware of around my area are Lakenheath, which if i have read correctly, still have operational nuclear weapons, and Mildenhall.
RAF Watton, which im not to far from, and where the sightings on radar were picked up, is in the process of being demolished to make way for housing.
I believe it is still used as an operational drop training ground, supported by the Hercules aircraft i see flying iver my house and work place nearly every evening.
Any way, hope i havent waffled on to much, thanks for reading, and i hope to recieve some more interesting reading soon.
Regards.
Andy

[Observer]

Hi Andy

Graham Haynes will no doubt be able to answer your questions concerning B/Waters & W/Bridge. He has a good knowledge of the bases history and why they were so close together. Check him out.

RAF Coltishall from what i'm led to believe is going onto a care and maintenence level after all the Jaguars have retired. It may then re open as a Typhoon base as and when more aircraft are produced to form new squadrons. The defence publications are if anything rather vague about this.

Check the internet on this subject.

Regards

Observer

[ghaynes]

Wow, its great to see alot of replies going on my post.
Firstly, as i have said before, i still believe that there is something under Bentwaters/Woodbridge. Its interesting to read that Graham has said the new owners of the bases have tried, but failed to find any evidence that there is an underground facility.
What did they do?, just have a nose around??
If anyone has seen the channel four program Time Team, you will see that they use equipment to scan for any abnormalities in the soil under the earth and by reconstructing this they know where to dig a trench etc.
Secondly, if this is The Biggest UFO case in Britian, dont you think someone, whether it be a university, a private researcher who has access to this equipment, go down to the bases and try. In Warrens book he says he spoke to someone who had access to all areas on the base and states that there were two water tanks, which to him looked like dummy tanks, and if a crane was brought in to remove them, then there might be something underneath???!!.
Again, i am very sure there is something there, whether it may be connected to the incident, which i believe it is.
And finally, a bit off the point, but why did the military have two RAF bases near enough next to each other, and were they shut at the same time??
I live about 25 miles from RAF coltishall that was only shut last year, i think, so why shut two large bases and leave Coltishall operational?
The only bases which i am aware of around my area are Lakenheath, which if i have read correctly, still have operational nuclear weapons, and Mildenhall.
RAF Watton, which im not to far from, and where the sightings on radar were picked up, is in the process of being demolished to make way for housing.
I believe it is still used as an operational drop training ground, supported by the Hercules aircraft i see flying iver my house and work place nearly every evening.
Any way, hope i havent waffled on to much, thanks for reading, and i hope to recieve some more interesting reading soon.
Regards.
Andy

Hi Andy,
I doubt whether any University or researcher would attempt to get funding (or permission) to look for an underground base on the basis of one speculative comment in a largely fictional book! These excavations are usually based on historical fact. The alleged underground base is not really an important part of the Rendlesham UFO case. It is more of a 'secondary' spin-off.

The owners of Bentwaters have used various methods to detect a possible underground base, including the Time Team method (radar/sonar)and excavating equipment. They even excavated and discovered the well from which the name 'Bentwaters' was taken.
Not sure where the two water tanks are that you are referring to. There are several tanks located around the base. If you can find out where they are I will have a look at them.

Re. the close proximity of Bentwaters and Woodbridge.....the bases had two very different uses when they were first built. Bentwaters was the one that was used operationally (and offensively) by an RAF fighter wing during WWII. Woodbridge was built as an emergency landing ground (ELG) for battle damaged aircraft returning from raids over Germany (due to it's close proximity to the coast). Obviously, it wouldn't be beneficial to offensive operations if Bentwaters was continually closed by aircraft crash landing on its runway....hence the reason for Woodbridge. There were a number of ELGs dotted around the coast.....Manston being another one.

Bentwaters and Woodbridge were closed at around the same time (Woodbridge first) as both bases were operated by the 81st Tactical Fighter Wing as a Twin-Base complex.

The RAF never took on Bentwaters or Woodbridge after the USAF departed for financial reasons....allegedly. At the time, the MoD stated they didn't want to move to Bentwaters due to the costs involved converting all the facilities from a 110V to a 240V electricity supply. This was an utter lie as every building on the base is supplied via dual voltage. There were obviously other financial factors involved.......or they just couldn't be bothered.

Yep, there are definitely nukes stored at Lakenheath.
Hope I've answered all the questions
Regards.

Graham

[ghaynes]

Hi Andy

Graham Haynes will no doubt be able to answer your questions concerning B/Waters & W/Bridge. He has a good knowledge of the bases history and why they were so close together. Check him out.

RAF Coltishall from what i'm led to believe is going onto a care and maintenence level after all the Jaguars have retired. It may then re open as a Typhoon base as and when more aircraft are produced to form new squadrons. The defence publications are if anything rather vague about this.

Check the internet on this subject.

Regards

Observer

If only Coltishall were to become a Typhoon base!!
The base was purchased by the Home Office and they intended to turn it turn it into an immigration centre. The last report I saw in the local paper said this idea had fallen through and Coltishall was now likely to be developed into a new town or a tourist attraction of some description. I guess, in reality, no one really now what will happen to Coltishall at this time!!
Regards.

Graham

[Observer]

Hi Graham

Thanks for that info on Coltishall. Is there no end to this governments paranoia on shrinking the RAF. They won't be satisfied until there is just one base in Scotland and one base in England and then they will proudly announce all the money they have saved which will no doubt be squandered [nothing new there then] on some hair brained scheme to get votes. They will then say we can still defend ourselves. 'Tossers'.

Could you briefly out line the history of B/Waters & W/Bridge. I believe that Woodbridge was initially built as an emergency landing strip for returning allied WW-2 bombers after raids over Germany?

Regards

Observer