30 year reunion

[Andy]

Andy,

Did he look like this?



St.

I honestly cannot say, i wish i had seen him. My friend Sue did, but i will be seeing her in the next few days and will show her the photo. She described him as some 'hippy looking guy' however, someone else on this forum seemed to know the person i was describing (and PM'd me) and gave the name that my friend Sue said 'Woody.' and apparently it is not SR?

[Andy]

Hi Andy

Ref the comment in my last post:

Also, another contributor, Andy, stated his father and colleagues at the hospital where he worked saw US military guarding a sectioned off area of the forest.

did I get that right or have I made a mistake?

Hi mate, i typed in all the relevant details, took me ages as there was so much to tell you, pressed the post button and the f*****n thing cancelled out on me!! So frustrating! I can't type it all out again. As said, let's get a group of us to meet up sometime, i live in Ipswich, and i can explain all then. And those witnesses i speak of still live and i'm sure still open to further questioning. I have various other anecdotes from others who apparently were around at the time. Many of them i would have no reason to question their credibility, and they are interesting to talk to, but all my information is second hand, however, would quite willingly sit a polygraph test, to clarify that which i relay second hand is as accurate as it was told to me I honestly would make nothing up. I'm as intrigued by all this as the next.

[puddlepirate]

Andy - OK many thanks. I'll take you up on the idea of a meet in or near Ipswich...

Just a general comment to the forum and to throw a bit of a spanner in the works..

Given the RFI happened almost 30 years ago, is it really relevant now? Does it actually matter what happened - be it aliens, a a/c crash, an accident with a nuke or whatever? The Cold War ended in Nov 1989 and things have moved on. I'm just wondering if all the effort to solve something that happened a long time ago and is probably unsolvable, is actually worth the effort. After all, east Anglia wasn't turned into a nuclear desert, aliens did not invade nor did the Soviets. The twin bases were returned to the MoD, the nuclear protestors went home as did the Greenham Common 'wimmin' and a large part of USAFE.....just a thought

[slipX]

Getting to the truth always matters.

[AdrianF]

I walked over the area again yesterday, this time only reading the three original statements and a forest planting map as a guide. I now think that the FC were pretty close with their calculation as was Brenda Butler and I think that Jim Penniston should be forgiven for identifying a second site and with good reason ( apologies to Jim if it seems I'm putting words in his mouth ). I've come to this conclusion after being given a planting map by the FC, which shows how the designated areas were planted by year and tree type.

My aim is to produce a reasonably accurate animatic of the events from this planting map, using the original statements as a guide. All later comments I'm excluding, as the forest appears to have changed so much during the 80's that it would require a huge effort to recall exact locations. Having said that, most of the later statements now seem to make perfect sense including Larry Warrens route into the forest and the area where the lightalls were probably positioned on the 3rd night.

I've created a very rough overlay map, which I hope should give some idea of what I think might have happened here and why there is still so much confusion. IMO this stands the best chance of being resolved with the use of photographs or film footage from the time, as this will confirm how this particular part of the forest looked back then.



The area ringed in white is the approximate area now known as the landing site, the one investigated by Verano and Gulyas and subsequently Halts team. It potentially could have been a little further east, but is more or less what most people agree on being the landing site area.

The X marked A seems to be the area JP sketched in the statements. It should have looked then much like the X marked B does now, hence the confusion.

The 1st area ringed in green which was replanted in 75 is very likely the area referred to as the first clearing or field crossed.

The 2nd area ringed in green containing the landing site, was most likely the forest that was passed through before entering the second field.

The route taken beyond the farm house is still a little confusing, but I would think could be solved as this has changed very little to my knowledge.

Going over the statements at the site, they are actually quite accurate accounts of the ground covered, particularly John's statement.

[Andy]

Adrian i cannot view the map?? All i get is a box with a red X? I'm very interested to see what you have done. It's great that you have managed to get maps of the plantings over the years. I hope to get my hands on some, because my American colleague who i work with was stationed at Bentwaters a year after, and rumours were still flying around, (despite it supposedly being hush, hush? ) and someone took him into the forest and showed his the areas. He seem to recall a track literally a few yards down the road leading into the forest? And this would tie in with JB's witness statement, and also a diagram in BB's book showing the believed route the airmen took? That's why i would like to see a planting map from that time, to see if this path, whatever it was shows?


On a different note, he also remembers a huge, but dead oak tree in the field, but is gone now. He believes this is the one LW mentions and not the one that is commonly believed to be the one now, standing at the edge of the field, and is not what i would consider large, or even huge by any stretch of the imagination.

[slipX]

good work adrian.

[AdrianF]

Andy, I've moved the image now and hopefully the map should be viewable.

Your right about the track. If you take a right at the stop sign and go about 10-20 yards just as John said, there is the remains of an old logging track that leads into the forest. This is also marked on the map. The area on one side of the track was old forest at the time and on the other a mixture of saplins and beech I think. Then they would have come to the first clearing, which is now very dense forest, crossed the clearing and following the lights into the trees and out across the farmers field.

I did come across an oak tree at the end of the old logging track leading into what I believe would have been the first clearing, though not a very old or large one.

[puddlepirate]

Good work, Adrian. Many thanks for sharing it with the forum. However, would identifying the actual landing site really achieve anything? If someone has a metal detector and could scan each of the three sites and perhaps even LW's site in the farmer's field, in an attempt to some evidence of wreckage, anything at all, beneath the surface, then there is definitely a purpose but other than that I'm not so sure.

This isn't about dismissing anything out of hand, far from it. It's about using Adrian's hard work for a specific purpose. I'd be quite willing to travel up to Suffolk, meet up and look at the sites as suggested but only if there was a firm objective. I've wandered around the forest enough times now so another trip would need justifcation.

[AdrianF]

PP, SlipX, Thanks.

I've primarily done this to help me make an animated map of the events without a million different variations! But I've always felt that such basic things as the route taken, who was where etc. have never been answered thoroughly. I'm not sure the exact location of the site will ever be found, as this forest has since been replanted and so wouldn't bare any similarity to the how it was then.

If you take a metal detector and spade into the farmers field, be prepared to be shot at!

Did he look like this?

[Andy]

PP, SlipX, Thanks.

I've primarily done this to help me make an animated map of the events without a million different variations! But I've always felt that such basic things as the route taken, who was where etc. have never been answered thoroughly. I'm not sure the exact location of the site will ever be found, as this forest has since been replanted and so wouldn't bare any similarity to the how it was then.

If you take a metal detector and spade into the farmers field, be prepared to be shot at!

Did he look like this?

I share the same view Adrian, i agree that the route taken has never been answered thoroughly, and i would just like to know out of interest really. Over the years i think i have built up a reasonable idea after much reading and re-reading, and finding out details such as the Path my colleague Tex told me about. I shall have another look at the map and see if it works for me now. Many thanks for taking the time and effort to put it all together and post on here.

[Andy]

The map shows now, just had a look. Yep, very much the same conclusion i have come to. Also Bruni's pic with the light shining through the trees in the background would also tie in well. However, i think LW's path was different. I think he went down what was route 12 and near to the end of it near the farmer's field and then ventured into the forest on the left from there?

[Andy]

Evenin' all...

Re landings sites. My previous post was more of a general comment really. Just an observation of the confusion that exists with this case. from an analysis of what we know to be correct, it seems that by pure coincidence there was more than one incident, spanning two or more nights. The apparent plethora of landing sites and conflicting dates suggests this could be so (don't tell me east Anglia was under attack and nobody noticed!! ).

Also, does anyone know the trade specialisations of the key players sent into the forest? Halt, Englund, Verrano, Steffans and others? We know SP/LE were there - or was it only one or the other, i.e. only SP and not LE? I think it would be very useful to know the various specialisations that were present in the forest from Halt's night onwards.

We know about night #1 (JB, C, P, Ch early hours of Fri 26th Dec) and we know about night #2 (Halt and co late evening 26th/early hours of 27th) but for how long after these dates did activity continue in the forest? In previous posts LW mentioned the C5(?) arriving on the following Sunday 28th and departing on Wed 31st and that it had its own security and off loaded vehicles that went into the forest - presumably this was at Woody and the vehicles left by the east gate, taking the shortest route to the forest. Also, another contributor, Andy, stated his father and colleagues at the hospital where he worked saw US military guarding a sectioned off area of the forest. LW also mentioned something about a road block that had been set up on the main road, approximately half a mile after turning right at the end of the east gate service road, that was manned by Suffolk constabulary (from memory the source was a couple of lines in LAEG plus additional information provided by LW on this forum). This would put it somewhere near where the forestry centre is now. Is there any additional info on these events. Can they be corroborated?

And while we are at it, there was mention of Williams being handed canisters of 35mm movie film that had been, allegedly, exposed in the forest and which he flew to Germany in an F16. Does anyone know anything more about that?

Right will make another attempt.
1. Colleagues saw five orange balls of lights from the top storey windows of St Audys hosptial, having a clear view across the trees towards the base. The lights hovered over the forest for some time. In the end colleagues got bored watching and just put it down to 'Something going on at the base.'
Other colleagues of theirs ventured into the forest in the immediate days after and reported seen schorched areas.
2. Dad passed by i the immediate days after on a fishing trip. Military were guarding the edge of the forest along the road opposite East gate.
3. Another colleague's father worked on base at the time (he is British), and got to hear of it in the immediate days after, went into the forest with others and saw a fenced off area being guarded, but from where he stood saw three schorched areas and said it looked as if something had purposefully landed as opposed to crashed. He also commented that in the days immediately after the security was a bit lapse, but suddenly became more intense. Is this when my father passed by on his fishing trip? Probably was.

[Andy]

I can appreciate how confusing it must be though going back somewhere many years later. When i went with Tex a few weeks back he said how much it had changed since 1981 when he had been there, and you could see he was confused as we walked into the forest, because obviously it was so different compared to back then. However, when i took him to the FC site, he stood there for a few moments got his bearings and said that yes it felt right ie the place he had been shown.

Mind you, always amuses me that apparently the FC way back then denied anything had occured, yet many years later they are admitting that something must have happened by their actions of creating a UFO trail with the sites marked out, and one of them in particular various people attesting to it being within the correct area give or take a few yards

[John Burroughs]

One of the questions that has been asked me and i will throw it at you guys who have been out in the forrest. How did they get the lightalls out to the area in question that Halt party was at. We could not get to the area we were at except by foot. When i went back out there the 3 rd night I went back in the same way so what route would have allowed the light alls to be brought in and staged in the same area Jim Ed and I were the first night?

[Andy]

Now that is a juicy question, John I like it Can't answer that, i'm afraid? I dip in and out of the Rendlesham incident, and what i've red over the years becomes rusty. You've seriously got me thinking now I shall have to get the books out and review. That's what facsinates me about all this, you think you make that step forwards then suddenly find yourself taking another two steps back. Still, it all helps to keep us interested in this case. I would hate for it to die out and be forgotten.

[AdrianF]

However, i think LW's path was different. I think he went down what was route 12 and near to the end of it near the farmer's field and then ventured into the forest on the left from there?

Yeah, I think Larry described his route out to the farmers field quite accurately too. If he went down route 12, which is to the south of the field/clearing, went into the clearing from there ( which would have allowed them to take lightalls into this area) and then skirted around the southern edge of the mature forest, he would have ended up at the far end of the farmers field, exactly as he has said in the past.

Route 12 would have skirted the southern edge of the clearing and allowed access to this area for trucks/lightalls and would have allowed for those in the forest beyond to have had a well lit area while investigating the site.

John, I'll try and add this part to the map to explain what I mean.

[Andy]

Can someone refresh my memory. What were the events of the second night?

[John Burroughs]

Do you remember when he described the route and would they be able to get the lighalls and equipment in the same area we were in or was it where Halt said he was? And can you show on the map also where Halt has said he was when he was first investigating the incident?

[Andy]

However, i think LW's path was different. I think he went down what was route 12 and near to the end of it near the farmer's field and then ventured into the forest on the left from there?

Yeah, I think Larry described his route out to the farmers field quite accurately too. If he went down route 12, which is to the south of the field/clearing, went into the clearing from there ( which would have allowed them to take lightalls into this area) and then skirted around the southern edge of the mature forest, he would have ended up at the far end of the farmers field, exactly as he has said in the past.

Route 12 would have skirted the southern edge of the clearing and allowed access to this area for trucks/lightalls and would have allowed for those in the forest beyond to have had a well lit area while investigating the site.

John, I'll try and add this part to the map to explain what I mean.

Now that is the conclusion i have always come to also, going by LW's account, and using route 12. Lighalls could easily have been taken down that route, and the landing site from there (the south side) is not that far into the forest, and the powerful light of the light all would have given quite a good amount of illumination, i should imagine.