Moving on...

[puddlepirate]

While the lighthouse has been done to death and the statements and allegations of the key witnesses have been examined and pondered over in great detail, the one thing that is never mentioned or discussed anywhere is what were the 40+ personnel out in the forest doing? We know what Halt was up to, we know what JB, JP and LW saw but apart from this small group of witnesses we know almost nothing about what the larger group was doing - why they were there or what they found. LW referred to guys in lab coats; there have been vague references to a C-5 landing complete with it's own security team and off loading vehicles which were driven out to the forest but other than these snippets the focus is always on what JB, JP and Halt saw. Why is that? Surely the bigger puzzle is what was everyone else up to? Is this a genuine case of not seeing the wood for the trees? Is our attention being diverted away from the main event to what, in the grand scheme of things but obviously not when it comes to JB and JP, are perhaps the lesser events? Perhaps even fabricated events?

[Admin]

Good call, Puddle. It seems several witnesses are still yet to emerge, Larry mentioned this just recently. Even some of the witnesses we know of have yet to speak out - Bruce Englund for example.

The witnesses to the first night of events are all accounted for - Cabansag, Burroughs and Penniston, with others back at base. In relation to the questions you pose, if we're after more pieces of the puzzle, the second and third nights of the incident are probably the most important. I find Gregory Battram's testimony interesting, in particular his description of the yellow fog and "thrumming" noise, seeing as his group was the first on the scene on either Halt's night, or Larry's night.

John recently mentioned the blue lights, one of which apparently navigated its way through a vehicle's window. Other people must have been hanging back with the vehicles and malfunctioning light-alls - what did they see?

[larry warren]

Ah, sorry i saw greg as we went out, he saw me, its the same night Halt was out there, and could be no other, also i never saw people out there in lab coats? cheers

[puddlepirate]

Oops. Apologies, Larry. In LAEG you say that soon after arriving in the forest you passed a group of people, some of whom were in uniform and some in civilian clothes. Not sure where I got lab coats from - must have been mentioned somewhere but not by you.

[larry warren]

hey alot of people have said alot of things over the years ! and latley im the guy that people accuse of saying it ?
such is life ! cheers pal, hope your well

[Frank]

Not sure where I got lab coats from - must have been mentioned somewhere but not by you.

Maybe here:
http://ufoupdateslist.com/1999/apr/m07-001.shtml

[puddlepirate]

Frank.... thanks. I knew I'd read it somewhere. Follow the link Frank posted then scroll though the text and you will find this:

when we went out the East gate back to Bentwaters, leaving
Woodbridge, there were many people, including numerous people
in typical lab coats making an analysis of the area. You could
see out the vehicle to the right side, that there were many
people examining the area, searching, looking for something.

I won't repeat them here but the text and all statements within it are fully credited - the bold is mine. The style of the text is very similar to that of LAEG so that's probably what led me into making the mistake. That or a crap memory!

[puddlepirate]

Does anyone happen to know if any of the personnel in the forest were wearing NBCD suits?

It's always struck me as being a bit odd that Halt took a gieger counter with him but neither he nor his men wore protective suits. That suggests he or others already knew the risk was low and that perhaps the gieger counter was more for show than anything else. Surely, if the level of radiation was not known but it was necessary to take a gieger counter to measure it, then they should have been wearing PPE....pretty foolhardy not to, given what was known to exist on at least one of the bases at that time.

[Frank]

Funny thing is: From Ted Conrad's interview on Clarke's weblog, we learn that Halt went out to the forest twice. On the evening/night of 26/27 and on the night of 27/28.

26/27:
Sometime between 2100 and 2200 on [26 December 1980] members of the Woodbridge SP shift appeared at a Christmas party at the O’Club where Lt Col Halt and myself were in attendance. They reported the events of the previous night and thinking there might be a recurrence, Halt decided to ride along with the shift leader, which he did. Aside from that, nothing unusual happened.

27/28:
By the morning of [27 December 1980] I contacted Maj Zickler for information of the alleged sighting. His information was all second hand and sketchy. Those with first hand accounts were citing career concerns as justification for remaining silent. (...) We decided that a brief in-house investigation was in order. (...) The rest of [27 December 1980] saw Lt Col Halt assemble our meagre assets. These were a Geiger counter, starlight scope (night vision device) and trained SP investigators out at the site in Rendlesham Forest. The investigation lasted until late evening where the site was starlight scoped, after which all went home except Lt Col Halt and some unknown SP’s. This was the night of Halt’s famous audiotape. He also had a two-way communication radio, which allowed me, and the SP’s to monitor his reports.

Just to reiterate, if Penniston's encounter on day 1 was at approximately 0300 hrs. the notification at the party was 18 hours later at approx. 9:00 PM, also on day 1. Penniston's interview occurred the morning of day 2, and shortly there after we decided to investigate. Halt spent most of that day with the investigators, the starlight scope and Geiger counter. After sundown he went back to the forest with his tape recorder, and reported seeing lights that night. This was actually early morning of day 3 and approximately 48 hours after Penniston's encounter. Take your pick for day 1,either 0300 26 Dec. or 27 Dec.

Halt always told that his night started unexpected at the Christmas party, with the announcement that 'it was back'. Nevels, however, told that the third night started with a top secret investigation. Now Conrad confirms Nevels' story.

[Daniel]

I've sometimes wondered if they went into the investigation with some sort of guide that told them how to document any 'UFO' landing. Was the landing site, on the audio tape, the same one as Jim and Johns? I still feel there are some bits and pieces missing from betweeen the point of 'the lights are back' to the start of the audio tape. Bit weird to re-investigate the first landing if it was already looked at during the day. Just wish I had plenty of time to sit and think about this all.

[Frank]

Bit weird to re-investigate the first landing if it was already looked at during the day. Just wish I had plenty of time to sit and think about this all.

Exactly my feeling, Daniel. Investigating it 48 hours later in the pitch dark does not make any sense. Maybe a lot more happened in between. We don't have much information about the evening/night of 26/27 and it has always been considered to be a calm night (apart from a blue light that entered a vehicle), but was it really that calm? After all, according to Conrad they were investigating the forest on december 27, and:

"The investigation lasted until late evening where the site was starlight scoped, after which all went home except Lt Col Halt and some unknown SP’s. This was the night of Halt’s famous audiotape."

They also decided to call in and interview Jim Penniston on the morning of december 27, and started a top-secret investigation involving Nevels that afternoon. What triggered those events if nothing of interest happened on the night of 26/27?

[puddlepirate]

Frank said: [quote]They also decided to call in and interview Jim Penniston on the morning of december 27, and started a top-secret investigation involving Nevels that afternoon. What triggered those events if nothing of interest happened on the night of 26/27?[/quoteI

That is exactly my question - what happened on night two and why. Let's not forget the visitors to RAF Watton - apparently Americans who wanted to view the radar film; the fact that the film was 'faulty'; the increase in 'flash over-ride' traffic on the Autovon system; the allegation that either Williams or Conrad flew a canister of film to Ramstein, etc.. Getting bogged down with who was where, who was reporting to whom, who saw what on night one is a distraction from the main event on night two.

By stating that, in my opinion, the cards were stacked in favour of Armold's view (now supported by Buran and Conde) it seems I've stirred a hornet's nest of in-fighting. Whilst it's good to have both sides express their opinions about night one, there are equally important statements from others that suggest something of importance occurred on night two. Any attempt to shift the focus from night one to night two and to explore in more detail the events of that night, is constantly being thwarted by diversionary intervention that manages to keep night one in the spotlight. This raises my suspicion that something remains hidden and others want it kept that way.

To me at least, night one is finished with. Nothing more to be said and nothing to be gained from arguments that go nowhere.