RADAR Development

[robert]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2347/Electrom ... 20bomb.pdf

Gorbachev concerns never reach U.S mainstream Press.

BBC Summary of World Broadcasts,1986, january 21. Press Conference on Gorbachev's Nuclear Arms Elimination Proposals. Tass for abroad. Part 1 The USSR; A. International Affairs; SU/8162/A1/1. Lexis-Nexis.

'' Weapons based on new physical principles would include, among others, means in which physical principles which have not been used hitherto are used to strike at Personnel, Military Equipment and Objectives.

Amongst weapons of this kind one might include Beam, Radio-Wave, Infrasonic, Geophysical and Genetic Weapons. In their strike capabilities these types of weapon might be no less dangerous than mass strike weapons. The Soviet Union considers it necessary to establish a ban on the development of Arms of this kind.''

Gorbachev

[robert]

ST
Thanks for posting those pictures again.
Robert,
Most of us already knew the BT RC history as we threaded it last year and PP worked for BT so we had first hand knowledge from a forum member not to mention that i had friends who worked there.
Obs

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=377&p=2142&hilit=martlesham+heath#p2142

I found this Thread under ''Old scraps of info'' back in Febuary.
I presume this is the one you refer to. It has the ST photos on the thread as well.
Very interesting comments re the Beam speculation and the Scientists etc.

Robert

[Observer]

Hi
If you took every artlcle published on the internet about these 'mind' weapons and the like we will end up getting completely bogged down. They are very interesting, but we do realy need to start narrowing the field to see if these types of technologies are applicable in the RFI in practical terms.

If you take the evidence of those guys that were in the forest, and remember we weren't there, if we take it at face value, then we have to trust their descriptions.
Several mentioned an electrostatic atmosphere and time seemed to slow down. Electrial kit was malfunctioning etc. These phenomena seemed to be very localised to the object and i'm gussing here but probably within 20/30 metres. Perhaps JB can help us on this aspect, he was there.

Rather than looking for some sort of projected beam weapon or similar and where the hell it was beamed from, i suggest that the object in the woods was the weapon only it met with a mishap/accident either high up in orbit or from an aircraft.
Its up to us to try and determine what type it was and how it got there and more importantly who's was it?

Obs

[robert]

Hi
If you took every artlcle published on the internet about these 'mind' weapons and the like we will end up getting completely bogged down. They are very interesting, but we do realy need to start narrowing the field to see if these types of technologies are applicable in the RFI in practical terms.

If you take the evidence of those guys that were in the forest, and remember we weren't there, if we take it at face value, then we have to trust their descriptions.
Several mentioned an electrostatic atmosphere and time seemed to slow down. Electrial kit was malfunctioning etc. These phenomena seemed to be very localised to the object and i'm gussing here but probably within 20/30 metres. Perhaps JB can help us on this aspect, he was there.

Rather than looking for some sort of projected beam weapon or similar and where the hell it was beamed from, i suggest that the object in the woods was the weapon only it met with a mishap/accident either high up in orbit or from an aircraft.
Its up to us to try and determine what type it was and how it got there and more importantly who's was it?

Obs

In other words according to your theories there is no room for ELF or Beam weapon technology. That is fair comment but to infer that you might get bogged down by such a theory is not really relavent until you have safely discounted it.

There are plenty of leads from the witnesses themselves which are entirely applicable to these theories and of which I am sure you are aware. If not perhaps our witnesses can remind you or you can back track on this or one of the other strings where we have already covered some of it.
The physical effects felt by the witnesses, the physical effects regarding vehicles which cut out, the Landing Lights which were effected (your thread). The lights Halt saw silently exploding.
The blank memory , the missing time that was incurred by John B, the mind games that have been played on Larry W. (Halt's suggestion as well as Larry's.
All these suggest an electro magnetic interference or effect of some sort.
There is plenty to suggest that these particular experimental EM weapons and or ELF radar which has the same effect (uses Pulsed EM waves) were indeed involved from the Witnesses own description. I would therefore before discounting these theories ask the witnesses concerned if they want to discount this particular topic and move on to one perhaps more in tune to your own way of thinking.

Where did these lights or effects come from you mentioned.

I would think they either came from development work on their own doorstep, an experimental Satellite, a combination of both for ABM use or even an attempt at Soviet interference, which although they had the technology, I admit is unlikely.

In any event I don't think they were playing games and I am yet to be convinced that any of this was a mistake as the MOD has attempted to infer.

Robert

[Observer]

ST
No, not a dream, it was suggested some time back that some sort of weapon fitting that catigory may have fallen off a USAF aircraft or even jettisoned by parachute, possibly a B-2. It was also suggested that rather than being a weapon it was a componant of the aircraft. All very much guess work, but worth looking into.
I'm only guessing but PP may have talked about this. If i'm wrong puddle, appologies.
Obs

[Observer]

Robert
You keep looking at all the beam weapon data and let us all know what you find out.
I'm not discounting any thing so please don't infer i am.
We as a forum have looked at many theories and subjects, some in depth over the 2 years or so we have been on air. You are a relative new comer to this forum and you are very welcome, but it seems you want to completely take over with your agenda and i am not the only person to think that.

All angles need to be investigated but one subject should not dominate at the expense of others, not until evidence moves us further in that direction and then and only then can we drop other theories in persuit of more promising ones. I don't think we have reached that situation yet on any theory.
Obs

[John Burroughs]

Observer I dont understand why its such a big deal to have him post the information he is posting. I also dont understand why you keep ruling out BT or MH there are things I know that I will never be able to talk about and there are places I worked that I didnot not know what they were doing other than it was a TS area. Marconi is a very tough company to crack so I dont think it hurts to post this stuff and it allready has opened some doors for me at this end. And this is not a therory but its statrting to look more and more like part of what happened was somthing very important to both sides was brought down and there was a race to see who could get it and luckey for us the good guys won..

[Observer]

John
We could not find any info from the BT site that they were experimenting with beam weapon technology.
I asked a couple of friends who worked there and they said it was a coms research lab mostly in the sat microwave coms and fibre optics coms, and they were closed for Christmas.
I am in no way against the beam weapon research that Robert is doing, it just may reveal some thing one day but as yet we have little to go on in relation to the RFI. Trying to connect the RFI to that technolgy will be pretty difficult.
So no not against the research, i just feel it is going to be impossible or a brick wall.
Obs

[John Burroughs]

I understand that but trust me when I say they would not make it easy and they want you to give up. Those sites may only be a small piece because it looks like it took alot of different Tech pieces to make it work.

[John Burroughs]

OB There was a detachment it was the 1550 ATTW Silver can you take a look at what they did and post?

[Observer]

John
The USAF Coms site in Martlesham, actually its more in the Kesgrave area and now derelict was looked at in detail by this forum. Graham Haynes i believe gave us a good history on this site and said there was nothing sinister about it. It was a plain old coms site. In fact part of it has opened up as a museum to the public.

If any body wants to delve into Marconi and their work around that period [1980] great, i will support that, but i could not get any where with my enquiries. Perhaps using the FOIA might get us further.

John, you said in your recent post that there is things you still cannot tell us or say. OK, i'm in the same situation having served in the RAF/ROC, but are there things you cannot say that are connected to the RFI? If this is the case then give us a clue as it could move us on a bit.

I'm open to every idea that people put forward including the 'beam' weapon tech but we must not forget that there could be a much simpler explanation which perhaps we have over looked.
Obs

[pupil88]

I am on a telephone connection so I couldn' t see the video I'm sending. But it's from the Larry King show and has to do with "beams".

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...l.ufo.long.cnn

[John Burroughs]

There does not have to be anything sinister about it. It could have been just a relay system. And I know you beleive there could be a simple explanation but from what I experianced out there and what I have been exposed to over the years I think not. Im doing my best to lead you in that direction and allow you to make your own conclusion. You can Lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink......

[Observer]

John
We are moving in the right direction and thanks to you we are progressing. I know about leading a horse to water but we aint found the water yet.
All those symptoms you described when in the forest seem to me as coming off the object. How close do you think you were before you noticed them, was it hundreds of yards or just a few feet? It would be useful to know.
Obs

[robert]

http://www.users.waitrose.com/~magonia/ms14.htm

April 1999

A Reply to Nigel Watson. Extract.
I guess Nigel would only have been happy if I had written a book seeking to prove the whole case collapses as a combination of lighthouse/meteor/rabbit IFOs. Alternatively, most of ufology would have been happy (and so would my bank manager!) if I had set out to prove the aliens had landed in a smoky white spaceship. In some ways I do both. But unfortunately, the reality of this case is that the evidence is not cut and dried in any direction. I show why the second night's events are, in my view, more likely to be mistaken identity. I show why the first night's story is more open to other interpretations. I also do not just magic out of thin air the ideas about Cobra Mist, as if I had simply invented this daft idea about a covert experiment. At no point does Nigel mention the evidence I unravel about the NASA programme to develop an over-the-horizon radar on Orford Ness, the scientific puzzles about the changes to the orbital decay path of a Soviet rocket that night, or the views of space scientists on the matter. I present this option because, and only because, it fits a number of the facts surprisingly well. If indeed a by-product of a defensive weapon was - as I suggest - the accidental discovery of a crude offensive beam weapon, then I am not in the least surprised if this was tested on a night when a rocket was burning up on a flight path over the forest. As I point out in the book, it was the perfect moment to conduct such a test, because anything that did happen would superficially seem indistinguishable from what was supposed to occur anyway. Of course, if airmen then saw the beam in action it would also justify the spinning of yarns about aliens to ensure that the media and ufologists switched off from seeking out the more down-to-earth truth. They would either rubbish the whole case (like Nigel seems to want to do) or go chasing non-existent spaceships instead.

So, no, I don't know what happened and I am still eager to find out one day. What I do know is that the truth is far more complicated than Nigel (or most sceptics) seems to think it was. The case is, in fact, a terrific one because it has so much going on. There is misidentification, distortion, exaggeration and probably confabulation. There are government botch-ups and cover-ups. But at the heart of it there is at least a prima facie case for suspecting that the nefarious activities of the NSA on Orford Ness were not unconnected with what took place at the start of this weekend of confusion.

Jenny Randles, Buxton, Derbyshire

Response by Nigel watson
The twists and turns of Rendlesham are of obvious fascination for Jenny. She indicates that some military operations or experiments were being conducted, and that the UFO story has been put about to get rid of closed-minded sceptics like me.
From such a scenario we must conclude that Jenny is acting as a subversive agent who is actively willing to reveal the secrets of our Government, just to satisfy her curiosity for the "truth". Where is her social responsibility? Will she accept that she is an urban guerilla who is undermining our political, social, military and economic structure? Isn't that a crime worse than being merely closed-minded?


Comment

Be careful if you don't conform to the Establishment's way of thinking Gentlemen.
Accoring to Nigel Watson if you don't think the RFI can be explained away as a UFO or a Lighthouse you will be pigeon holed as an Urban Guerilla for giving away State Secrets!

Interesting comments by Jenny Randles, particularly about the the orbital decay path of a Soviet rocket that night, or the views of space scientists on the matter or dare I say it the BEAM theory! Perhaps we can establish if the decaying path was altered to specifically come down in the UK?

Back in September.
Cheers
Robert

[Observer]

My currant view on the RFI, is that a Russian SAT or other orbital vehicle/weapon was brought down by some sort of technology we have yet to establish.
There was a lot of cat & mouse stuff going on between the 2 super powers during the cold war and the RFI could be the aftermath of one of these behind the scenes clashes. A tit for tat scenario. I may be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me.
All the disinformation and smoke screens etc along with the harsh treatment of those involved was so this 'technology' did not get into Russian hands. We do however have to recognise that this idea could be in total reverse and it was Russian technology?
Obs

[John Burroughs]

Jenny was the first one to find out about the ships also and was threatened it was the kind of information that could could have you end up at the bottom of the thames river. I want to send out a warning to all of you that is a fair warning. I am not saying this for drama purposes but as a fact. It was once stated that why would the government cover this up. Look at the big picture once we got past UFO and Ailiens look at what we have come up with. 2 different incident in the same year that could be tied together. Technoghly that most people didnot even think we had at the time and maybe are just now bringing on line but the fact of the matter is its on line and who knows what we have now or what kind of threat it is to us. Nuclear weapons were once viewed as the main threat to mankind and maybe they were in the 40's and 50's but today I feel there is a much more dangerous kind of weapon that was being developed and tested in 1980. Remember when they had US Army troops stand out and watch nuclear weapons being exploded in the nevada desert and told everybody there was nothing to worry about. As far as the 67th goes OB I know they have certain things that they can use. Look at where I was deployed in 2003 for Iraq and I was also in San Vieto Italty in 1999 for what went on durning Bosina it was a special operation base. What they dont want you to do is put the pieces together because you cant hide everthing IE units where they were areas that they have equipment IE research and development and finally operational sites. If you look at Roberts research you will see Kirtland then Bentwaters and Finally Austriala all had UFO siteings that were somewhat alike and all had major facilitys that had somekind of EM plasama starwars ELF AARS special ops conection. The threat is real they want you to beleive in little green men and lighthouses it makes there life that much eaiser and entertaining thats for sure.

[John Burroughs]

It sure sounds like they were working on a ship, helicopter and equipment you place on the ground. I wonder what the equipment looked like that could be placed on the ground!!

[Observer]

John
Thanks mate, we are aware of the risks and you have been a great help. Robert has unearthed some good stuff on electronic weapons research. Puddle will know more about what ships were around the North Sea at Christmas 1980, but if i remember correctly, he has already told us a couple of times.
I guess the object that was 'placed'/fell in the forest was the same shape/size that Jim Penniston described.
It was loaded with some sort of electronic systems designed for a purpose.
Obs

[John Burroughs]

Puddle might not know what was in the area because if it was classified would he know or would he be able to say!!!