further thoughts on Rendlesham Forest [later access shafts]

[Observer]

Sorry, Bognor.
Obs

[puddlepirate]

Ian

Many thanks for posting the SCUFORI report. It makes for very interesting reading and the conclusion reached by the investigators is probably correct.

The initial rumour that some kind of aircraft accident occured and that the accident might have involved a nuclear weapon, seems the most likely to be true but anyone who really did have first hand knowledge of that in Dec 1980 would never have admitted it openly. There might have been a quiet conversation between a small group of USAF servicemen in a local pub where something was inadvertently let slip and overheard - and from that grew the whole RFI mystery. The report mentions several instances where an everyday event has been expanded into something more sinister - e.g. the spaces cleared by tree felling, the agitated cattle and the poor quality TV signal received at the cottage in the middle of the forest, so the basis for the whole RFI thing as we know it, is shaky to say the least.

The only 'evidence' we have is that between 70 - 80 USAF personnel were in the forest looking for something; there was increased military activity in eastern Europe which required aircraft from Woodbridge to move to forward bases; something hit the landing lights at Woodbridge; Approximately two weeks after the event, Lt Col Halt sent a memo to the RAF; USAF officers asked to see the radar tapes from RAF Watton.

This all points to the USAF losing something of importance which they needed to find and recover without any fuss. I strongly suspect the Halt memo is not what it appears to be. I believe it is cryptic report to the RAF stating that all is now OK because a wide area of the forest has been searched, whatever was lost has been found, residual debris has been cleared and that radiation levels are of no concern. Nobody would ever suspect a low key memo - whereas an intercepted official signal or phonecall from the base commander to the UK PM or a bugged meeting would result in uproar. The press would be on to it in a flash. On receipt of the memo Maggie T was probably personally briefed by the RAF at a highly secure location where only herself, the Chief of the Air Staff, possibly the Head of (London) Station for the CIA (to represent President Reagan) and the person actually giving the briefing were present at the briefing.

I also strongly believe it is very important to consider the overall political situation that prevailed in Dec 1980 - and the allegation that Soviet agents were operating out of Kings Lynn. You can bet your bottom dollar that given 1980 was at the height of the Cold War, Soviet agents were sniffing all around the twin bases, in the pubs, in the clubs, possibly even in the bases themselves working as civvy contractors. The USAF would have been very well aware of that, so would have instigated measures to ensure absolute secrecy regarding activity in Rendlesham forest.

[Observer]

Puddle
You make some interesting and quite feasible explanation for the whole episode and many of the points you raise are beginning to carry more weight.
I think the most significant part of this whole thing was the 2 week delay in Halt's memo and its insignificant content. One can only draw conclusion that it was delayed until said incident was done and dusted, which as far as they were concerned was the only logical move they could take considering the circumstances. [Whatever they were]?
I have thought for a long time that if there was an incident it was far more likely to have been an accident involving a piece of USAF kit/weapon that ended up in the forest and i sincerely believe that the rest was a face saving exercise.
I doubt very much if we will ever find out by our own enquiries and it will be just a stroke of luck or somebody actually telling us that reveals what happened. [Would we believe them any way]? There is an element of doubt that nothing happened at all and it is just myth.
I do however remain hopeful that one day we will find out if there was an incident or just a hoax, but i won't hold my breath.
Obs

[robert]

Hi yes I know Gary Heseltine, he is the co editor, of UFO Data Magazine I hope he and Russ Callaghan will publish( as promised) an oustanding report which I inevestigated in October 2007, when two saucer shaped objects were chased by the RAF over Bognor Regis Suffolk,one of hundreds of cases I have looked at over the years, involving these objects, what people forget are the great waves of UFOS that occurred not only in the States and France but in the UK, matters that I have catalogued and re investigated, contained in five volumes, a project that has taken me 14years to put together, unfortunatly Publishers in the UK are not interested in publishing books on UFOS, one of the reasons is a necessary evil- the internet, coupled with a dearth of books published in the USA and the UK not forgetting the mass of documentaries all focussed on Roswell or Rendlesham, which have thrashed the subject matter into submission, now I have over 600 pages of UFO sightings covering the period 1977-1981, (UK) which tells you that there is life after the RFI. I will speak to Brenda Butler and aks her through me to give you an update on the RFI, when I see her next month,
she is of course in my opinion the leading authority on this case, and was an investigator for the East Anglia Paranormal Research Association, along with Ron West, long before the RFI was brought to her attention, if any one wants info on the Felpham case youcan always email me on johndawn1@sky.com. as I am a firm believer on getting the truth out there.

Hi John,

Just wondering whether it would be possible to ask Barbara Butler about her encounter with some of the fishermen re the nights of 25th to 30th of December and whether the fishermen, who were told not to fish on those dates, were actually told by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries or by the MOD

Kind Regards

Robert

[Observer]

Did you mean Brenda Butler?
Obs

[robert]

Thanks OBS .

Yes I do mean Brenda Butler.

Just trying to establish some idea of who was giving the advice re No Fishing on the nights in question.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Robert

[Observer]

Robert
Yes, me as well. Now when 'they' said not to fish in and around those waters, were 'they' directing this towards sea anglers and/or trawlers. If it was trawlers then it would have been a government directive through proper channels to the trawler associations.
It it was to plain old sea anglers then i suggest it would have been via the Coast Guard.
Having said that it could have been the Coast Guard for both.

Getting to the bottom of this if its true [and i have my doubts] may reveal more government involvement than we have been led to believe. Ministry for Ag & Fish maybe or whatever it was called then.

Obs

[robert]

Robert
Yes, me as well. Now when 'they' said not to fish in and around those waters, were 'they' directing this towards sea anglers and/or trawlers. If it was trawlers then it would have been a government directive through proper channels to the trawler associations.
It it was to plain old sea anglers then i suggest it would have been via the Coast Guard.
Having said that it could have been the Coast Guard for both.

Getting to the bottom of this if its true [and i have my doubts] may reveal more government involvement than we have been led to believe. Ministry for Ag & Fish maybe or whatever it was called then.

Obs

Apologies OBS,
Missed your reply.

I think we would have to hope we can get some reaction from Brenda Butler via our friend John.

It's quite possible it might be hearsay but fingers crossed etc.

I am presuming as Puddle suggested it might just be pollution from chemical dumping etc over the years but you never know!

Best Regards

Robert

[Observer]

Hi Robert
My own thoughts are that it could have been toxic waste coming off Orfordness. It still remains to be established who gave the directives. I think this one is a 50-50 between hearsay and true.
Obs

[robert]

http://www.ufocasebook.com/2008/poorattempt.html

Leiston resident Brenda Butler, who wrote the first book, Sky Crash, on the UFO sighting, said the reason Lt Col Halt took two weeks to file his report was because he wanted the advice of the British base commander who was on a two week holiday.

She added: “I do believe that the men did see something. Something must have happened because of all the secrecy and cover ups. We went to the MoD offices and they asked us to sign a paper to say that we would stop investigating the case.”

Source / Link as above.

Comment

Just came across this today regarding Brenda Butler's involvement in the case. I wonder when she signed this agreement with the MOD?

It also says 'we'. I wonder whether this was before she wrote and co authored the Book 'Sky Crash' or afterwards.

In either case I would assume this agreement hasn't been enforced or adhered to, if in fact the report is correct?

Any comments welcome.

Robert

[AdrianF]

Hi Robert,

I think you will find that Brenda claimed this to have taken place, during the early investigations, so before "Sky Crash". "We" I believe refers to herself, Jenny Randles and Dot Street. I don't have "Sky Crash" to hand right now, so it may have been Brenda and Dot.


Adrian

[robert]

Thanks for that Adrian,
I presume they would be talking about the sensitivity of the Nuclear capability of the base and hence the need to sign a non disclosure agreement.

Robert

[AdrianF]

Yeah, it's not surprising really, that they had such a difficult time trying to get information in those days. Which I suppose, brings us to the question, that of the Halt memo being released by the US gov. before being fully acknowledged by the MOD.

Adrian

[Observer]

The policy of the MOD was to make no comment when the subject of nuclear weapons was brought up.
Even if nuclear weapons were not housed in a particular base the answer was still no comment.
RAF Woodbridge did not have nuclear weapons as explained by Graham Haynes but RAF Bentwaters did.
This is not to say that RAF WB did not have Chemical weapons which was just as contentious, the answer again would be no comment. If those involved in the early days of investigation were allegedly asked to sign some sort of agreement not to expose their findings then it suggests that there may have been some sort of un conventional weapons stored at WB [excluding nukes] as those investigating this incident would be concentraiting their enquiries on RAF Woodbridge and this is what may have alarmed the authorities.
It would however be bad news for the MOD if it was disclosed that no nuclear or Chem weapons were stored at either base as it removed the element of tactical surprise. Keep the enemy, the media [and CND] guessing was their MO.
Obs

[puddlepirate]

Just think about this for a minute....

Unknown strangers turn up at a front line NATO base managed by the USAF and start asking questions about nuclear weapons. Not batting an eyelid, the USAF decides to tell them but asks that they sign a non-disclosure document? Never. Not in a million years. They would be escorted off the base -possibly after arrest and interrogation.

To get anywhere near highly classified material, certainly in the UK, means that those requiring access are vetted. Even Normal Vetting (NV)takes time. Access to higher classification material, such as that above [national] secret or NATO Top Secret - which is a lower classifiction to national Top Secret - and into the heady heights of the nuclear world (and nuclear is way above national top secret), requires detailed and individualised background checks in a process known as Personal Vetting (PV). This takes more time and is a lengthy, expensive process. Nobody gets near anything they are not allowed to see. That is a fact. If you doubt this, just try climbing aboard, then going below, one of our nuclear boats parked at HM Naval Base Faslane. Or perhaps you'd like to test the security at PJHQ Northwood?

The US has always been paranoid about security. No way in this world would the USAF have allowed access to highly classified information to a couple of unknown civilian visitors. Heck, they might just as well have said "Hey, Ivan. Good to see you. Knock the snow off your boots and we'll show you around our most secret areas - but before you leave the base you must promise not to tell anybody about what you've seen so please sign this confidentiality document. Thanks...."

Come on. Please!!! That is just too silly for words.....

Classified Information is not available to those with no need to know and those who do need to know and who have access will not talk about it. Not even to each other. if unauthorised personnel persist in trying to gain access, they will be dealt with. End of story. If classified information was handed out to every Tom, Dick, Harry and Jane who wanted to see it, our enemies would know as much as we do!

Let's retain some common sense over this - after all, would any one of you allow your most private information to be accessed by anyone, anywhere? Of course not so why should MoD or the DoD, particularly where the defence of the realm (or the USA) is concerned.

[puddlepirate]

She added: “I do believe that the men did see something. Something must have happened because of all the secrecy and cover ups. We went to the MoD offices and they asked us to sign a paper to say that we would stop investigating the case.”

Re previous post for USAF read MoD - the reaction would have been the same.

[Observer]

Totally agree puddle with all you said.
However, i can remember a conversation i was partly involved in beleive it or not in the Cherry Tree pub in 1982 where there was a group of USAF guys off duty and local Brits having a pint and a friendly if not heated discussion over the differences good or bad between the RAF and USAF bombers in service at that time. We were winding them up as they were us but it remained friendly.
One Brit said we have a V Bomber base in Norfolk where they carry thermo nuclear weapons, it was fairly common knowledge amongst aviation enthusiasts. One US airmen just said i bet we've got more at Bentwaters. One English guy said yeah but they are only little ones compared to ours and so the conversation whent on tit for tat.
So secrets are never always secret and it was a complete myth that no body knew about NW at BW. It was by no means general knowledge but some locals knew as did many aviation/plane spotter enthusiasts in the area, me being one.
Obs

[robert]

Just to keep on this topic a little while longer it still begs the question what did she (Brenda Butler ) sign and why?

I would presume,as Obs as suggested, that the Nuclear angle was a rumor at the time but they (the MOD) asked the Authors not to disclose or mention any Nuclear connection with the bases in their book 'Sky Crash', even as a rumour?

Not having read the book I can't comment. If there is no mention of any Nuclear content within the book then that might be in accordance with the request from the MOD.

I also don't know when the Lights or Lasers were first mentioned that were shining 'down' on the Base.

Was that mentioned just by Colonel Halt or was it mentioned by 'Steve Roberts' who was a Brenda Butler contact?

I think the MOD would be the first to put a restriction on any printed rumour that involved Nuclear capability at that very sensitive time.
Obviously they (the Authors of Sky Crash) wouldn't have had to go any where near the base to have a 'source' for the rumours.

Incidentally has anyone found out who 'Steve Roberts' was?!

Regards

Robert


(Notes.
Major Edward Drury told Georgina Bruni a D notice was put on the Incident. (Newspaper blackout, TV radio etc.)
Georgina Bruni in her Book. 'You Can't tell the people'.

[robert]

Do any of you guys know if this is a wind up or a Hoax?

Apparently from the MOD but sounds like an unsubstantiated rumour mill to me. Robert

QUOTE and source;

http://theuniversalseduction.com/articl ... 0-incident

Ministry of Defence (Excerpted from File 3, Page 107 Dear (Blacked out),
As you know, OSI has completed a report on the landing of a craft of unknown origin crewed by several entities near RAF Bentwaters on the night of December 29/30 1980.

Interestingly, OSI reports that the entities were approximately 1 1/2 metres tall, wore what appeared to be nylon-coated pressure suits, but no helmets. Conditions on the night were misty, giving the appearance that the entities were hovering above ground level.

B Tape recordings were made on which the entities are heard to speak in an electronically synthesized version of English, with a strong American accent. Similar transmissions intercepted (possible word omitted) irregularly by NSA since 1975.

According to OSI, entities had claw-like hands with three digits and an opposable thumb.

Despite original reports, OSI said the craft was not damaged but landed deliberately as part of a series of visits to SAC bases in USA and Europe. Reports that craft was repaired by US servicemen or was taken on to the base are not confirmed by OSI.

Landing is not considered a Defence issue in view of the overt peaceful nature of the contact, but investigations by DSP (?) are to be continued on (Blacked out) authority. Precautionary plan for counter-information at a local level involving (Blacked out) and a (Blacked out) is strongly recommended.

Sincerely,

(Blacked out)

[Observer]

Robert
First of all we don't know for sure if Brenda Butler signed any thing or was contacted by the MOD. It's hearsay. I suggest that some body asks her to clear this up otherwise this thread will keep on guessing.

I do know that the MOD were aware that people locally had more or less guessed that NW were at BW, it was a bit more than rumour. I also know that editors and writers on some aviation magazines and daily news papers had sussed out their presence, the MOD knew this but these people were not going to publish this as it would put their lively hood at risk and they would have been under restriction any way, they weren't daft. One left wing news paper in support of the CND made reference at the time but did not go the whole way in actually stating their presence, it just vaguely hinted. Whether Brenda Butler, Jenny Randles and Dot Street Etc knew about their presence, we don't know but Its pefectly possible. This is turning into another conspiricy theory which is not realy helping our quest.
With the greatest respect to every one, i have nothing useful left to say on the subject, so lets move on.
Obs