Unknown witness

[Observer]

Adrian

Come to think of it the only way that capsule could have got in the woods was either by accident or deliberately to avoid an accident.

To deliberately drop the capsule in a 'public' place on British sovereign territory for no other reason than a hoax carries a very high risk of locals out walking their dogs etc finding it. If i came across that capsule out walking my dog, i would be straight on to the Police no question and i think every one else would as well.
I put this very scenario to a friend who walks his dogs in the forest and he said the same.

So if this incident was a hoax, i don't think the Apollo capsule was part of it. Placing it there for 3 consecutive nights is bizarre.

If it was dropped there by accident or as i said deliberately to avoid an accident then its a whole new ball game.

Obs

[Wolf]

Hi Pupil88

Bruni referred to a precedence identified as 'flash over-ride'. I have never heard of this nor have others in comms that I have spoken to recently or worked with from 1981 to 1994. Flash is the highest precedence for signal traffic. Bruni also stated there was an increase in telephone traffic during the period of the RFI. If there was an increase in telephone traffic then almost certainly there had to be a corresponding increase in signal message traffic.

There were 5 levels of precedence available on the Autovon phones, but the buttons on the phone differed normally dependent on the roll. See example of keypad below.



Flash Override was not technically a precedence level, but rather a capability designed to allow the President of the United States or other National Command Authority to preempt any other traffic in the network in an emergency.


V/R

Wolf

[puddlepirate]

Thanks for that... a function of the Autovon system is different to message precedences as such. The other buttons would be flash, immediate and priority. Routine would not be required as that would simpy be a standard call. If FO was restricted to use for calls to/from the President or other heads of state, then selecting FO simply prioritised the call by seizing a dedicated circuit in the exchange cabling and switching. It would not be used unless absolutely necessary.

Thus if a high volume of FO calls were being made then obviously it meant very senior people were involved and that puts the RFI way above a prank or something silly involving the Apollo capsule. Because of who was at either end, then there had to be strict protocols for using FO.

If a person had the FO function available on their phone then they had to be of very senior rank. And persons of senior rank are not known for making unnecessary high precedence calls. The last thing they would want is to look foolish or be seen not to be in charge of a given situation. They would not use FO unless they had very good reason indeed.

So what was it that the USAF did that prompted Williams to make his statement re the memo and the need to use FO for an exceptional number of telephone calls? It was not partying in the woods nor the ARRS playing silly buggers with the capsule. Both those would have been dealt with locally and neither would require FO.....P or even I but not F or FO.

[redsocks]

Ok guys I'm just trying to find out what went on here and theres bound to be areas that need correcting.I can 100% guarantee that the Apollo casule or anything belonging to the 67th ARRS was used as a hoax,Mike Bird told me he was the only ARRS guy on duty that night,he said he sent he's guys home to their families for xmas,so as far as I am concerned the capsule theory is over......However Mike went on to say that the SP's he met that night were not acting in a concerned way at all that night,he went on to say SP's are notorious for pranking each other,he went on to say he thinks nothing unusual went on that night maybe a quick prank and thats it.Now I believe John that you have had dealings with Mike in the past, he went on to say that he wont come on the forum as he has had clashes with the key witnesses in the past.
Mike was there floating about the base had a feel for that night and like I say said nothing happened he would have known(it seems like more has happened since!) he did say that he thought the SP witnesses have enjoyed the attention after all these years.......I will continue in contact with with Mike who could be vital in all this.

Redsocks

[John Burroughs]

So lets get somthing straight. Your now saying there was nobody on Duty but 1 67th person on the night of are incident. So according to him there were no birds or Helo in the air that night! But of cource now you saying nothing happened to Jim and I that we made it up or the cops were playing a prank on each other. I will now have you ask him where he and I have crossed paths on this! And way back you accused me that I was not John Burroughs and i guess now you except that I am. I still waiting to hear who you are IE whats your name??? You have made a point to try and rip me apart so who are you or do you like to hide out and and cheap shot people. I'm waiting!!!

[puddlepirate]

JB, BTDT - do you happen to know if a 'minimize' was authorised? If so, do you happen to know to what level (local?) and the approx DTG when it was lifted?

[John Burroughs]

Puddle
If your asking if there was any kind of alert status not that I'm aware of. I know on the first night there was not. On the third night Halts I have been told people were held over for several hours so somthing could have been called but I was not on duty. When I returned to duty on Monday everthing was normal except for the activity in the woods.

[Observer]

John

What kind of activity was going on in the woods on Monday and was it during daylight?

Obs

[John Burroughs]

I was posted there from 3-11 and there were vehicles personal and yes Helocopters out in the woods until right before I got off.

[Observer]

Thanks John

Were the helis HH-53 or smaller?

Obs

[John Burroughs]

I don't remember but they were landing over in the 67th area and they were also using spotlights in the forrest from the Helo. The word on the street was and there was more then one Helo flying that some of them came from the C-5 IE 1 0r 2.

[puddlepirate]

Not sure if this applies to anyone else, perhaps it's just me but I'm getting a tad confused. We now have a tree or trees being knocked over and helo's flying over the forest... neither of these events have ever been mentioned previously. Given this forum has been active for some years, how can that be? Why has no-one ever mentioned this? Ian R's careful transcript of the Halt tape doesn't mention a tree being knocked down...

Also, on re-reading BTDT's account of the sudden evacuation of Woodbridge and his being granted permission to leave via east gate, he states that he turned left at the bottom of east gate road. He then saw light-alls lining the road, facing outwards to blind anyone who attempted to look into the forest. If he turned left and the lightalls were just a short distance from the east gate road, then they would have been placed on the opposite side of the road to but roughly in line with, the eastern end of Woody runway. Given that BTDT was heading for Leiston via Friday St then to turn left would be correct...... how come nobody else has mentioned the lightalls lining the road... they could hardly be missed. This suggests that activity was taking place much closer to the eastern end of Woodbridge runway than was previously stated.

This would also make much more sense - particulary with regard to the damage to the landing lights (does anyone know the date when the damage was caused and by what?). It would also be good to know what prompted the sudden evacuation and why there needed to be a meticulous muster of all personnel.

[puddlepirate]

Not sure if this applies to anyone else, perhaps it's just me but I'm getting a tad confused. We now have a tree or trees being knocked over and helo's flying over the forest... neither of these events have ever been mentioned previously. Given this forum has been active for some years, how can that be? Why has no-one ever mentioned this? Ian R's careful transcript of the Halt tape doesn't mention a tree being knocked down...

Also, on re-reading BTDT's account of the sudden evacuation of Woodbridge and his being granted permission to leave via east gate, he states that he turned left at the bottom of east gate road. He then saw light-alls lining the road, facing outwards to blind anyone who attempted to look into the forest. If he turned left and the lightalls were just a short distance from the east gate road, then they would have been placed on the opposite side of the road to but roughly in line with, the eastern end of Woody runway. Given that BTDT was heading for Leiston via Friday St then to turn left would be correct...... how come nobody else has mentioned the lightalls lining the road... they could hardly be missed. This suggests that activity was taking place much closer to the eastern end of Woodbridge runway than was previously stated.

This would also make much more sense - particulary with regard to the damage to the landing lights (does anyone know the date when the damage was caused and by what?). It would also be good to know what prompted the sudden evacuation and why there needed to be a meticulous muster of all personnel.

[John Burroughs]

Puddle
I have talk about being posted on the East gate and Helo flying over the area on M-W after the incident when I talked about the C-5 coming in back in FEB. Ben is the one who brought up the tree and you can hear it on the tape Adrian posted it and it was in a couple of Books Bruni and I beleive sky crash

[redsocks]

I can 100% guarantee that the Apollo casule or anything belonging to the 67th ARRS was used as a hoax

Is that a typo? Are you saying "can't" guarantee?

Mike Bird told me he was the only ARRS guy on duty that night

Which night are you talking about thurs/fri - fri/sat - sat/sun ?

he said he sent he's guys home to their families for xmas,so as far as I am concerned the capsule theory is over......

I could have told you that. There were no ARRS flying over that holiday period.

1)Mike Bird told me he was the only guy at ARRS that night,how could they hoax the capsule?

2)Obviously we are talking of the first night incident with JB and JP.

1)Again I was told there was no flying at all on the base over ARRS anywhere,this puzzles me cos John just says there were choppers flying????

Redsocks

[redsocks]

Not sure if this applies to anyone else, perhaps it's just me but I'm getting a tad confused. We now have a tree or trees being knocked over and helo's flying over the forest... neither of these events have ever been mentioned previously. Given this forum has been active for some years, how can that be? Why has no-one ever mentioned this? Ian R's careful transcript of the Halt tape doesn't mention a tree being knocked down...

Also, on re-reading BTDT's account of the sudden evacuation of Woodbridge and his being granted permission to leave via east gate, he states that he turned left at the bottom of east gate road. He then saw light-alls lining the road, facing outwards to blind anyone who attempted to look into the forest. If he turned left and the lightalls were just a short distance from the east gate road, then they would have been placed on the opposite side of the road to but roughly in line with, the eastern end of Woody runway. Given that BTDT was heading for Leiston via Friday St then to turn left would be correct...... how come nobody else has mentioned the lightalls lining the road... they could hardly be missed. This suggests that activity was taking place much closer to the eastern end of Woodbridge runway than was previously stated.

This would also make much more sense - particulary with regard to the damage to the landing lights (does anyone know the date when the damage was caused and by what?). It would also be good to know what prompted the sudden evacuation and why there needed to be a meticulous muster of all personnel.

This is the first time ive heard of helis flying,this have never been mentioned before how can stuff just be added years later?????

[redsocks]

So lets get somthing straight. Your now saying there was nobody on Duty but 1 67th person on the night of are incident. So according to him there were no birds or Helo in the air that night! But of cource now you saying nothing happened to Jim and I that we made it up or the cops were playing a prank on each other. I will now have you ask him where he and I have crossed paths on this! And way back you accused me that I was not John Burroughs and i guess now you except that I am. I still waiting to hear who you are IE whats your name??? You have made a point to try and rip me apart so who are you or do you like to hide out and and cheap shot people. I'm waiting!!!

This reaction just shows me that you is worried cos i'm upsetting the apple cart as it were,your aggressive nature makes me think that your are going on the back foot,I'm intitled to find people who were there and have dismissed your story,you cant have it all your own way John theres always two sides.no cheap shots here just a guy who doesent believe your story and is trying to prove so and will do so.

Redsocks

[John Burroughs]

Again the Helo were flying on M-W after the incidents happened not durning the incidents!!

[redsocks]

Again the Helo were flying on M-W after the incidents happened not durning the incidents!!

Youve never mentioned John on all the documentaries on Rendlesham about activity on the Monday involving helis, personnel, vehicles,why is that?

Redsocks

[AdrianF]

Adrian Bustinza in his interview with Larry Fawcett mentioned Helicopters on night 3, that could have been from the Pararescue Squadron. LW has also mentioned this.
JB has stated many times that an aircraft came in and subsequent activity in the forest Monday through Wednesday.

Obs,

I may have misquoted Brenda earlier on it being Foley House, I'll have to go back to that interview and check that. Anyway, you get the idea.


Adrian