The landing site [later general discussion]

[John Burroughs]

Halt saw somthing land which is why there are 2 sights. Remember Bustina was not out there with me on the first night but was with Halt and me on the third night. I was told by Halt when I ment up with them that somthing landed the third night and by Bustina also. The problem I have with Penniston and Halt is they had to know from the begining there were 2 different sites. Halt even talks about the plaster cast Penniston took so he knew where are site was. It looks like Halt is trying to confused the 2 sites and what was seen just like his memo did with the dates

[Andy]

Sgt Obrian was the Desk Sgt and was typing up the report and the blooter entry on the incident. she did not see dead bodies but was freaked out by the beams of light that lit up her vehicle and the blue lights that and i quate the report that passed threw her vehicle and caused her vehicle to shut down. They also lost radio contact with her for over 10 min.... Andy less get this straight I thought I made myself very clear in my last post. Halt was out there on the third night not the second.....

So the woman was freaked out by blue lighthouse beams? Not being facetious here.

John, no disrespect, but don't ever say to me 'I thought i made myself very clear' and that goes for others, because we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

To my understanding, and the claim that Halt was out there on the third night, (and not the second, which i understood to be his night).... and to my understanding was also Larry Warren's claimed night? (ie the third), would suggest to me that LW and AB accounts fit a site more accurate than others i have read? But then, on the scale of things, their rank was nowhere near that of a colonel, leutenant etc, and therefore lower down in the re-cycling waste disposal system.

[Andy]

Halt saw somthing land which is why there are 2 sights. Remember Bustina was not out there with me on the first night but was with Halt and me on the third night. I was told by Halt when I ment up with them that somthing landed the third night and by Bustina also. The problem I have with Penniston and Halt is they had to know from the begining there were 2 different sites. Halt even talks about the plaster cast Penniston took so he knew where are site was. It looks like Halt is trying to confused the 2 sites and what was seen just like his memo did with the dates

So where did Halt see something land? According to him, all he saw were lights above the ground and sending down beams?

[Andy]

Sgt Obrian was the Desk Sgt and was typing up the report and the blooter entry on the incident. she did not see dead bodies but was freaked out by the beams of light that lit up her vehicle and the blue lights that and i quate the report that passed threw her vehicle and caused her vehicle to shut down. They also lost radio contact with her for over 10 min.... Andy less get this straight I thought I made myself very clear in my last post. Halt was out there on the third night not the second.....

This does fascinate me though, ie vehicles shutting down, radios mal-functioning etc, because i know for a fact, where you were is the area where on many occasions my dogs have re-acted out of character, compasses have gone hay-wire, and mobile (cell) phones have mysteriously malfunctioned? Yet other times, everything is normal? I have no answers, but would like to know what is going on? It is very bizarre, and you really have to witness it to believe it.

[Andy]

John Burroughs might be able to confirm if the Halt team were investigating the same site that he and Jim Penniston had witnessed, or whether this was a landing site witnessed/found by somebody else?

If Halt wasn't investigating the 'real' site, then so much of what this case is based on - the radiation readings, the landing marks and the tree damage - is rendered meaningless. This is what I meant in an earlier post about the cover-up theorists throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

How Nick P and Georgina B squared their opposing beliefs on this I have never fathomed. Nick P has always espoused the radiation readings and the landing marks at the Halt site as the strongest evidence in favour of something unusual, while Georgina was dismissive of Halt and supported Penniston's entirely different landing site (as Andy has remarked in a previous post).

So if the two strongest proponents of this case cannot agree on a basic issue such as this, who needs an official cover-up? Or are Georgina and the Pope really the disinformation agents??

Ian

But then Ian, she has never supported Penniston's landing site, on the face of it..... because he has never been up front and lucid as to where exactly his alleged landing site was/is? I know she reckons he is a 'reliable witness' but to be quite honest from what i've read about him, and his accounts there has been no apparent consistency? So why should i believe this man either?

[John Burroughs]

Andy
First of all no disrespect taken but I did make it clear in my post which you posted with your question which night was which. I also did not say light house beams but beams of Light which came from the sky not a lighthouse. It has taken me so many years to show the dates were wrong in Halts memo plus that there was three nights. As far as Halt goes I stated that is what he told me when we ment up on the third night. He never said what landed just somthing landed he then pointed up in the sky and showed me the Blue lights that were flying around. As we watched them thats when we saw one of them beam lights inside the storage area and the radio trafffic went nuts. After that somthing then appeared in the distance which is what Bustina and I went after. Georgni Bruni did allot of hard work and came up with allot of information with the help of Lord Hill Norton. As far as Nick Pope goes what has he ever really stated other than what is allready know. People go to him because of his Title he has never as far as i know stated anything that was earth shattering has he?

[Andy]

Andy
First of all no disrespect taken but I did make it clear in my post which you posted with your question which night was which. I also did not say light house beams but beams of Light which came from the sky not a lighthouse. It has taken me so many years to show the dates were wrong in Halts memo plus that there was three nights. As far as Halt goes I stated that is what he told me when we ment up on the third night. He never said what landed just somthing landed he then pointed up in the sky and showed me the Blue lights that were flying around. As we watched them thats when we saw one of them beam lights inside the storage area and the radio trafffic went nuts. After that somthing then appeared in the distance which is what Bustina and I went after. Georgni Bruni did allot of hard work and came up with allot of information with the help of Lord Hill Norton. As far as Nick Pope goes what has he ever really stated other than what is allready know. People go to him because of his Title he has never as far as i know stated anything that was earth shattering has he?

Don't get me started on Nick Pope I value my membership of this forum too much The least i say on this matter the better, me thinks

[AdrianF]

John,

You went back for the "Strange But True" filming right? Did you get a chance to go back to the forest to have a scout around and find the ball park area of where you think your encounter was?
I appreciate that memory fades a bit and the forest has completely changed, but do you think you could still find that ball park location?

Cheers
Adrian

[Andy]

As said, i keep a very open mind on this case, and just seek an answer, no matter how mundane it might turn out to be. However, and no b**l S**t this one always sticks in my mind.

There is a colleague of mine who i have known for the past twenty odd years. A lovely woman, and as honest as the day is long. Back at the time of the alleged incidents she was dating a forestry worker (as it turned out, i trained alongside his sister, another psychiatric nurse and a no nonsense type, so if he was like his sister, i would have no reason to disbelieve him either). Apparently this guy was visited by 'The men in black' type and forced to sign a document in the days after, due to what he had apparently seen. He tried to explain to my colleague, but she became fearful and asked him to not say anything more, as she was very freaked out and scared by it all. In the long run this man had a mental 'breakdown' due to what he had apparently seen ie a saucer in the forest. I kid you not, and may i be struck down dead. This was exactly as it was relayed to me, and as said, if i didn't know the person who relayed it to me, i would say she was a fantasist, but she is definitely not. I can't speak for the guy who relayed the information to her, but as said i know his sister, and apples don't generally fall far from trees.

[Andrew Pike]

Hi Larry!!

As I said down in Glastonbury I'll finally register on this site after years of looking as a guest!! So here I am another astronomer sticking his nose into Rendlesham!!!

I'm not sure I can go as far as saying I'm a pal of Ian's more of another astronomer interested in Rendlesham, although I know of Ian and his work in astronomy and I did reassured Larry Ian is a nice guy really.

Anyway It was great to catch up with you Larry and I liked your talk on Sunday night.

On Wednesday I also spent the day with Captain Ray Bowyer (the one who saw two mile wide UFOs over Guernsey last year) while filming for Glastonbury Radio's new TV show (the clip you filmed to slot in came out OK as did Nick Pope's!). Ray was telling me about when he met up with Halt and Penniston and how he actually held Penniston's note book with the symbols and drawings. He seemed very impressed with the Rendlesham case.

Anyway just thought I'd let you know I'm here as promised!!

[Andy]

Sgt Obrain told me they had a incident he told me the Shift commander went out into the woods and was so upset she had to be releived of duty and sent home.

Was that the person being comforted in the forest when Lt Englund and his men arrived?

Given the apparent confusion over the precise location of the landing site - aren't we simply looking at three different sites, not one?

Three sites (apparently), scorch marks, area fenced off and guarded (secured by any other name) by USAF personnel and one person being comforted? That suggests something serious happened and for the airwoman to see something so upsetting that she had to be taken off duty and sent home indicates she might have seen bodies but not regular undamaged dead bodies but very badly wounded or mutilated bodies, or worse still, bits of bodies.

My argument entirely, ie THREE different apparent sites? What the hell is going on here? To my estimation there should only be two at the most? Burroughs/Penniston/Cabansaq on the first night (which to this day, no one can seemingly give a reasonably accurate answer as to it's location?), and the other to my knowledge, and very accurately described... Larry Warrens. In the farmer's field. As said, a simple question, and not that difficult to answer, on the face of it. However, apart from LW, certain others have yet to come up with the goods.

I'm a typical capricorn ie cut the crap, just get to the point, give us the true facts, and let us decide for ourselves. Mystique is so passe, and very boring.

[Andy]

Larry, you're a friend of Bustinza. Any chance of persuading him to join the forum? That guy has always remained very low key, but to me remains another very reliable witness,

[John Burroughs]

I didnot get to go down. I was suppose to but they delayed going down a day and I had to go back, Halt and Penniston did get to go and that it why it puzzle me that they didnot come up with the 2 different sites then. Penniston was suppose to take them out to our site! I am sure if i come back I could retrace my steps!

[larry warren]

Hi all.
There were at least three authentic landing sights, because Halts team would not have been
investigating re investigating johns site two nights later , in the middle of the night.
thats two, then we have naughty caple green , and what happened there was not just airborne.
I dont know what Halt saw i dident see halt in that area.
i am often confussed why tv people put Halt and Penniston togather, larry king , for example,
it is not an accurat portral of events, john, jim, and ed, should represent that first night as it was them
that lived it. TV, newspapers, and agenda based authors always turn the real cases into train wrecks.
John, swings and mids were the only shifts i did work, later Aflt, i dont know what my rotation was
on that night, we had guardmount at 11p till the am finnish.
the Sp blotters from those nights would clear up the where ,why, and how and alot of other stuff
for alot of people, but sadly those records where lifted withen hours of the last night, as im sure you know,
The Bastards!
best
larry
for john b
John, i have received an email via a third party, from one of your working partners LE,
it is very interesting, so i am seeking permition to reprint here from the sorce.
also i would like to get you guys intouch with each other, this persons views on things
are importaint, so can you let me know how to get some privet details of this bentwaters vet
to you, the contact may be of value to yourself as well, and please be sure that i never rat on peoples
personal details.
hopping all is well with you and yours! im on the case!

[larry warren]

Hi andy,
like them caprecornes!
Vergos spell like shiiiit.
Busty is indeed a great wittiness, however he holds a great federal job, and would catch
a truck load of crap for talking.
all the wittinesses are great, brave, and are part of a turning point in history,a history with a
security classification! Peter Robbins.
i havent spoken to adrian since 83 or 84 but wish him well.
some day the debunkers will have to confront all the known bentwaters guys. its in the works!
we just have to drag them from under the rocks from wence they hide.
Power to the wittinesses! 81 SPS

[IanR]

I didnot get to go down. I was suppose to but they delayed going down a day and I had to go back, Halt and Penniston did get to go and that it why it puzzle me that they didnot come up with the 2 different sites then. Penniston was suppose to take them out to our site! I am sure if i come back I could retrace my steps!

Another relevant question is who actually found the landing site, and when. John, you told me a while back that it was found the following morning by Mike Verrano and Ray Gulyas. This is borne out by the fact that the photo of the site published by Georgina
http://www.rendlesham-incident.co.uk/im ... -photo.jpg
was taken by Gulyas and shows Verrano with PC Brian Cresswell. Daylight can be seen between the trees in the background so this is clearly close to the forest edge. The photo was taken on December 26, and was the second time the police had been called to the site - they were called around 4am that same morning after you, Jim P and Ed C had gone out there.

Three sticks have been placed in the ground to mark each of the impressions (the third stick, difficult to see, is next to Verrano's leg). Lord Hill-Norton sent enlargements of the individual marks to the MoD and these photos were released last year:
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/884131E3 ... orton2.pdf

All available evidence points to the fact that this was the same site and the same impressions investigated by Halt on the night of December 27/early December 28.

Ian

[John Burroughs]

Ian
After we had are brifeing with the shift commander he took us back out to the site to look around. That is when i saw Verrano and Gulyas and was told they found the marks in the ground and the damage to the trees. I do beleive this was the first place Halt was looking at when he went out there. i also find it hard to beleive that Penniston and him realizes years later there were 2 different sites. Jim even went out later and got plaster cast so he knew were the site was....

[Andy]

I'm glad someone can see the logic in what i'm trying to say (Ian). Larry, according to what we know, there couldn't possibly be three authentic landing sites? Only the one from the first night and of course that of your own experience. So why then was Halt apparently examining another area, which apparently was not the one John et al saw? It just doesn't make sense? (Unless, of course, something else had happened there which we have not been made aware of?) And as said by Ian, in so many words, makes a mockery, and i agree. As far as i see it, is it Halt who has some serious explaining to do. It just amazes me that someone of such high rank, and supposed intelligence can make themselves look such an apparent idiot? But then that's his choice. Rather him than me though.

[John Burroughs]

Andy
I am going to try and make some sense of this. And before someone jumps on me that I have been holding back this is my opion on several of the points i am going to make not inside knowledge. When I first was told about Larry Warren I had no Idea who he was. After I saw the CNN piece I knew he didnot have all the facts straight. One of the facts was he called Williams a LT Col which would have been Halt not Williams. He also stated there was alien contact and gave a discription of strange beings. Here goes on what I feel went on before I got out there and Warren part in it. I beleive Warren landing site is what Halt told me he saw land when I ment up with him on the third night. I beleive that encounter took place when the beams of light came down at his feet he also talked about a object that broke into three objects by the farmers house. When I ment up with his party everybody was visibly shaken up and stated they just had a unexplaiable experiance Bustina was with them. I was told by Bustina that Warren was telling his story because he was afraid to do so. He was living in Texas and had a state job. He was scared to death about losing it but also was scared to death for his own safety. Warren was probley on duty and may have been out in the forrest but i know for a fact he was not with the Halt party and the only way he could have seen what Halt and his group encountered was to be with the main group. The part about seeing ailiens could very well be the blue lights that were flying around in the sky to include the one Halts party saw and broke into 3 objects. Halt has never been asked any questions about the beams of light or the objects braking up. As far as the landing part what ever broke into 3 pieces was near the ground to that would have been the area they felt somthing may have landed.

[John Burroughs]

With being able to ask Penniston why he stated that and the fact he was not on duty that night I feel he was refering to the personal on duty who were listing to the radio and seeing stuff over head not 60 personal in the forrest.