A challenge to the skeptics

[Frank]

Concerning minde control: Let’s not get carried away here. The defense industry has a lot of money and a lot of very smart employees, but this does not mean they can perform miracles.

I’ve googled a bit on the usage of EM technology on people (also found a website called Mind Justice, John).

So far I found:
- The use of microwaves to create sound effects (microwaves heat air, which makes it expand and if that happens fast enough you can create air pressure waves in the hearing range = soundwaves). So microwaves can be used as an in-between medium to transport sounds to the human hearing system and hence could be used to communicate over large distances or to make people “hear voices in their heads”.
- The use of microwaves to inflict pain. I think you have to be a very sick person to apply them this way..
- The use of EM waves to knock out parts of your nervous system, i.e. to paralyze people or to induce unconsciousness.

These are all rather crude ways of using EM techniques on people. To really implant a complete 3D audio-visual-tactile scene in someone’s brain remotely while they are moving around in a forest would be about 100.000.000.000 times more difficult (that would be the amount of brain cells that you would need to manipulate – each individually - provided you knew how to manipulate them to create such a scene).

So no, no matter how smart the defense scientists are, I do not think this is in the range of human technology yet. (And if it was 30 years ago, it would be the main attraction in Disneyworld right now

What about implanting false memories in a laboratory, under hypnosis, using drugs and maybe some EM stimulation of the brain? That is possible, but I wonder how clear these memories would be and if the effect would last over the years.

[stephan]

so, microwaves ... hmm. That reminds me of something. Nowadays mobile phones and Sat TV operate in the GHz range (i.e. microwaves). It has quite often happened to me in the past that while watching TV I thought of something and then just a few seconds later it was on TV. In other instances there were phone calls which I seemed to be able to predict. I interpreted all of it as random coincidences. But maybe there's indeed more behind that. Our brains could be microwave receivers I see what you are talking about now, John. Thanks for posting these informative vids, AdrianF.

What I could imagine now is this. John, although you said it wasn't the F117-A, what if it was a smaller (crashed ?) prototype of it and those mind distortion devices which are mentioned in the CNN report caused you and Jim to think it was something else ? Maybe the ''noise'' produced by the devices distorted your view to an extent at which you were unable to determine size and shape of the object. The fast movements of the lights in the sky might have been caused by those directed RF energy weapons.

Larry also says that the object he saw was hard to look at directly. This also very much sounds like an distorted view. And he also mentions the F117A in his book.

Although I still lean more towards the ET explanation this idea of a crashed prototype aircraft (presumably the F117-A) which was obfuscated to those who witnessed it by the means of RF technology can be short-listed imo. While in the meantime the Nighthawk has been disclosed the RF technology certainly would still need to be kept secret.

But distortion is of course something else than actual projection of images into one's mind (e.g. those aliens mentioned by Larry cannot be explained that way, can they ?). Objects shooting beams of lights into the WSA - as reported by C. Halt - are also something which I would not call a distortion (or ''alteration of mood and awareness'' as it's called in the vid) but a discrete imagery.

[Daniel]

Regarding Stealth Aircraft, I would have thought the noise created would have been reported by witnesses in nearby homes. During Halloween night 1994 I observed an aircraft flying above myself at maybe no more than 400 feet, which had no engine noise, it just had its normal array of green, red and white navigation lights, around the shape of an F-15. This has made me interested in silent jet engines, but I can't find really any information about it.

To me it sounds like there was quite a bit of Electromagnetic/Static Interference ecountered during the incident, with light alls malfunctioning, the build up of static electricity felt by some personnel and the perception of time slowing down when engulfed in this field. Some sort of wierd experiment could of happened over the Christmas holidays, but it's a bit harsh to put a large group of servicement through it.

The radiation recorded doesn't seem a lot for a dropped weapon, but I believe that sort of radiation levels are encountered at the height of passenger aircraft. Now can that radiation be absorbed by some sort of metal and then emitted later? I don't know... Maybe Craig aka Storm knows?

Jim's drawings, especially the symbols still makes me feel that we could be looking at something currently unknown. This a long with the other witness statements keep me from fully believing a black project was in operation at that time. I wonder how many people also encountered ghosts on the Twin Bases.

[Ignis Fatuus]

I just retired in 2006 did 2 tours in the middle east and also was involved in the Bosnia conflict all 3 bases I was at had the top groups of special forces at them!

Going public with RFI had no effect on your security clearance?

Each one of the fringe science projects you've raised is interesting in its own right but how does it all fit together? If it was an expected event...why were you guys even there? Wouldn't it just have been easier to replace the whole security detail with special forces for the expected big show? Would getting a few unexpected days off duty during the holiday season have raised any suspicions?
Three downed satellites over three days..no sonic effects, no craters no shower of debris over Suffolk?
Not poo-poohing the possibilities of the fringe science, just very weary of so many elements being thrown into the mix to...as the regulars say...muddy the waters. I'm wondering if this has, and still is, being done to you guys.
It's like the RFI wants to be everything to everyone so nobody ends up with anything. It sometimes comes across like it was created by Orwell's Ministry of Truth.

and please explain what came out when I went under Hypnois!

Do you mean the more extreme version of your hypnotic revelations regarding the energy from another timezone?

And one more thing why would anyone go through what Jim and I have gone through! Remember we didnot put this information out Larry Warren pushed for this to happen

This is the fundamental question that caused me to pipe up in the first place.
What was Pennistons motivation for seeking out Brenda Butler if he didn't want to attract any heat? Was he coerced by a higher authority to do so, or was it simply a matter of getting it off his chest. Was Brenda targeted along similar lines as Paul Bennewitz?

Anyway, thanks for the suggested trails to follow.

[Frank]

Back to the topic of this thread:

I read some posts of people who seem to be offended by a perception of gullibility to the extraterrestrial theory and excessive skepticism towards other theories. Some ask for evidence and rightfully so.

So let’s look at this evidence:

1. The first night, three people went into the forest. Two out of three have no doubts that what they saw was intelligently controlled and could not be human technology. John is still trying to find an explanation.

2. We know from Halt’s tape who went with him into the forest on the third night. Four of these five men have no doubts that what they saw was intelligently controlled and could not be human technology. The fifth one – Englund – has never gone public. (Later they were joined by John who experienced how an object flew towards him, got above him, he then experienced about 20 minutes of missing time during which Adrian says he just seemed to disappear in some kind of light while Adrian himself was pushed to the ground by some unknown force.)

1+2. So, out of a total of 8 men, 6 have no doubt that they saw something that was intelligently controlled and could not be human technology. One has never gone public, and one is still struggling to find an explanation.

3. Worldwide, about five percent of UFO sightings are high quality, often multiple-mode sightings involving credible witnesses for which there is no mundane explanation that fits the data. Some scientists and researchers have looked at these cases and found a pattern (1). This is what that pattern looks like, and the similarities with the RFI are striking:
- Crafts without visible exhaust or wings.
- That exhibit strong electromagnetic fields.
- That emit gamma radiation.
- That are noiseless, apart from a whine or a hum that is sometimes heard.
- That show abundant lighting, sometimes described as “like a Christmas display”.
- That are surrounded by a plasma when in flight, a plasma that tends to become brighter when they “power up” to accelerate or move at high speeds, and that can make the craft invisible or only partly visible behind the plasma layer. A very bright plasma would be hard to look at.
- That are capable of fantastic accelerations in the order of 100 g’s, without any sound.
- That can hover and that sometimes land, leaving footprints in the ground.
- That come in many shapes and sizes, from small spheres to gigantic crafts the size of a football field.
- That seem to show special interest in military sites and power plants, but for the rest seem to avoid densely populated areas.
- That sometimes have a tendency to visit the same site several days in a row.
- That are associated with puzzling effects like missing time, the “Oz-effect”, strange and strongly delineated beams of light, and even accounts of being abducted.

4. Due to the association of UFO’s with crackpots, people try to avoid getting involved in a UFO story. There often is a sharp contrast between the actual witnesses (who know what they saw) and the people in their surroundings (who often act with disbelieve, try to convince the witness of a mundane explanation, or even ridicule the witness).
This is exactly what we see in the RFI: Witnesses are reluctant to tell others what they saw and sanitized their reports. High ranking officers look the other way as long as there does not seem to be any undisputable “defense significance”. The only high ranking officer who actually did something was a witness himself and was hoping someone would have the courage to take this matter seriously and start an investigation. But the MOD had the same tendency: The case was moved around the desks like a hot potato and ended up in a file cabinet.

5. There may be agencies who know more, but they “can’t tell the people”, possibly because they believe some people would not be able to handle the truth. In a case like this these agencies would perform a low-profile, compartmentalized investigation. This also seems to be the case in the RFI. Possibly they would silence some witnesses that show a high risk of talking, maybe drug some key witnesses with truth serum because they seem reluctant to tell the whole story, and maybe spread around some wild stories up front just in case some information would leak out (ref my earlier post about adding “noise” to hide the “signal”). They also would collect some samples from the landing sites and be gone. Just another UFO case to be added to the record, with the same pattern as all the others so no need to interrogate more witnesses than strictly necessary.


These are the reasons why I think the RFI is a genuine UFO case. No gullibility here, but just looking at the facts and how they all seem to be explainable in the light of this theory.

Now, to repeat my challenge – I am curious about a similar elaborate explanation of how all - or at least most of - the facts fit another theory.

(1) The “UFO pattern” can be found a.o. in these books - the third one can be read on-line:
http://www.amazon.com/Unconventional-Flying-Objects-Scientific-Analysis/dp/1571740279
http://www.amazon.com/UFO-Experience-Scientific-Inquiry/dp/156924782X
http://www.nicap.org/rufo/contents.htm

[stephan]

Regarding Stealth Aircraft, I would have thought the noise created would have been reported by witnesses in nearby homes.

if it crashed it may have had an engine failure. In that case it would have been silent (at least until the impact )

[Frank]

To me it sounds like there was quite a bit of Electromagnetic/Static Interference ecountered during the incident, with light alls malfunctioning, the build up of static electricity felt by some personnel and the perception of time slowing down when engulfed in this field. Some sort of wierd experiment could of happened over the Christmas holidays, but it's a bit harsh to put a large group of servicement through it.

The radiation recorded doesn't seem a lot for a dropped weapon, but I believe that sort of radiation levels are encountered at the height of passenger aircraft. Now can that radiation be absorbed by some sort of metal and then emitted later?

At the bottom of the previous page you can find a long post in which I present a list of evidence for the RFI being a genuine UFO case, dan92.
Part of this list is the fact that UFO's emit strong EM fields, and emit gamma radiation. Gamma radiation photons exist in a broad energy range. If low energy gamma photons hit the soil or a tree, heat will build up (note that apart from residual radioactive radiation, heat was observed coming from the soil and trees, using a Starscope). If high energy gamma photons hit the soil or a tree, they can turn atoms in the soil/tree into radioactive isotopes that continue to emit radiation for some time. As we all know the radiation levels at the landing site was not high, but it did peak in the footprints, near the center of the landing spot, and at the sides of the trees facing the landing site.

[puddlepirate]

Just an observation to follow on from Dan92's comment:

Regarding Stealth Aircraft, I would have thought the noise created would have been reported by witnesses in nearby homes. During Halloween night 1994 I observed an aircraft flying above myself at maybe no more than 400 feet, which had no engine noise, it just had its normal array of green, red and white navigation lights, around the shape of an F-15. This has made me interested in silent jet engines, but I can't find really any information about it.

Although there was no flying from the twin bases at the time of the RFI the locals probably weren't aware of that. Not as such. These were busy bases with aircraft coming and going all the time so even if they did hear an aircraft they probably wouldn't have noticed it because they were so used to the sound. Assuming F-117A could glide if thrust were lost, then it would be quiet, plus Doppler effect, wind direction and so forth would come into play. If it hadn't lost power it would be throttled back on final approach . However, as has been said many, many times by the witnesses - there was absolutely no flying at Woodbridge or Bentwaters. Nothing took off and nothing landed.

Just thinking out loud for a moment but staying with the possibility of a Senior Trend / F-117A whch in any case would not have been from either of the bases but from elsewhere - it might have come in from the west, over-flew Woody, dropped something in the forest then crashed into the sea somewhere off the coast. Perhaps part of the RFI was in fact a SAR op.

[stephan]

However, as has been said many, many times by the witnesses - there was absolutely no flying at Woodbridge or Bentwaters. Nothing took off and nothing landed.

maybe there was, at least on the third night. Larry says in LAEG, p.45:

The radios were active. I could hear what sounded like pilot communications. Someone repeated over the air: ''Here it comes. Here it comes. Here it comes.''

[puddlepirate]

To follow on from that, on p46 of LAEG (hardback copy) LW says:

The object had three delta like appendages protruding from the main body, giving it an almost threatening appearance

.

That suggests something resembling an F-117A. As this was in 1980 and again IF this was F-117A, it would actually have been Senior Trend, the full sized versions of the aircraft used for pre-production development before entering service as the first F-117A

There has been mention of more than one landing site so continuing with this hypothetical theme, (notwithstanding the comment in my previous post) perhaps parts of the aircraft came down in different places - main section in the field, smaller parts - the wings perhaps, coming down somewhere else and the pilot coming down in an ejector seat through the trees, breaking off some branches as he descended.

What mystifies me though, is given the secrecy involved why on earth would 'Steve Roberts' decide to gob off in a pub? Was it because something had already leaked out and the USAF decided to take prompt action to divert the media and inquisitive researchers away from what happened by seeding a UFO story? The Roberts affair seems to have been totally unecessary and served only to fuel speculation.

[AgentAppleseed]

Mind control, is a subject which in my opinion, is quite complex. The matter requires a delicate approach, especially when brought up, on a public forum. On one end of the scale, the attacks intensity may be minor and slightly unpleasant. By that, what I mean is, for the victim, the experience can seem at the very least, like a barbaric invasion of privacy. On the other end of the scale, if the attack were of a sufficient intensity the psychological damage done to the victim can be better understood, by those who haven`t experienced it, as being akin to the psychological aftermath suffered by a victim of rape. I for one, do not feel entirely comfortable discussing this subject on any public forum, however, I would like to help out in whatever fashion I can, but unfortunately there are certain obstacles which stand in the way which must be overcome in order for a person to be able to give meaningful and effective guidance.
When you say "if they could put something into your mind from a distance, with different effects, would it explain what happened to us?" what exactly is meant by that? What part are you referring to, when you ask, could they have put something into your mind? Do you mean, the entire experience, or are there certain aspects, in particular, that bother you, more than others? Can you be clearer about what it is you suspect may have been put into your mind? Entire scenarios could not have been, at least while you were out in the forest, no, or, if you would prefer, its unlikely, but as you say not impossible. It would be more likely that to do that, it would have had to have been done after the fact. However, if there is something in particular you feel you can hone in on, then it may be easier for us to find something that could cause a particular effect[s] you speak of, which then may help us wittle away at the problem. My problem with some of the descriptions is that they are a little bit vague. Bear in mind that I understand just how very difficult it must be, to put the experience into words, especially if you find it hard to relate the experience to something that may seem more familiar.

[AgentAppleseed]

To John Burroughs,
Do you remember the effect of the ground tremors, from conscious recall, or did that memory surface under hypnosis?

On the hypnosis video, you said that the object was calling to you. Now,... effects like that, may well have been caused by a hallucinogenic drug, or by EM waves which can cause similar kinds of hallucenogenic effects to drugs like L.S.D etc. I would be interested to hear what exactly it was that seemed to give you the impression, that:- the object was calling to you?
Can you describe how that felt, and why specifically you interpreted, whatever you felt, as being an attempt, on behalf of the object to; "call out to you, to come toward it"? For instance, did it seem like there were voices, or was there simply an impression(as vague as it sounds) and can you describe that impression? Feelings like these need to be better explained(I know full well, how hard that may be), but could well unlock something important.

To my mind, the the tingling sensation is suspicious. Like pins and needles?

Did you at any time hear, or imagine you heard, echoes, when the two guys you were with, spoke to you, during the period of time you were close to the object.

Did your vision seem different? For instance, did you see, or imagine you could see, patterns in the trees, or on the ground or on anything other than the object?

How well do you remember the immediate aftermath of the encounter? Is it hazy? I noticed during the hypnosis video, it seems to you remember somebody asking "Do I look Pale?" although of course that may have been from the fright that person got! If things were "hazy", when did the haziness wear off?

If someone remembered a detail such as the fact the pupils of their eyes were very big for a short time after the encounter, that also would be a symptom and a giveaway.

Depending on the answers to the questions above, it might point to the possibility you were somehow drugged or hit with an EM weapon or maybe even both. God knows, there are often beem times when I have been reading through parts of L.A.E.G and Y.C.T.T.P and I have thought that certain descriptions sounded like you guys were hit with something which was a weaponised Hallucinogenic. However, I think that this only accounts for some of what happened. There may have been a show put on, for your benefit, to make the whole experience seem that much stranger!

I dont really want any answers to any of the above questions,(unless you feel like sharing yourself), Im just trying to give you a feel for what Im getting at here, when I say that its important to try and nail down any particular feelings you have that make you feel, like what you experienced may have been Mind Control. Maybe you might read through them and see if anything jogs some memory or feeling of some sort.

You say you dont remember being brought in by OSI, but Halt claims you were. Did Halt ever give you any idea of when that might have been?

[John Burroughs]

Appleseed
There were different people in different areas that saw different things to include the guy in the WSA tower! Jim and I after we had contact continued on doing are job! When we were walking back we were talking about it and how were we going to explain what we just saw! Its clear there was some kind of Electromagnetic interference going on while we were out there! Some of what we both remember under Hypnosis we do did not remember happening while we were out there! How close has anybody here really looked at the EW weapons we were using the laser electro-optics we were working on the radar jamming pads we had! We also had a Airborne Laser Laboratory operational at the time! As far as testing stuff on us our Military has a long track record of doing that without the troops knowing what was happening to them or giving there permission to be used as test subjects! Let me throw something else out there what if they were doing testing or some kind of black ops operation was going on! Whatever was happening caused some kind of effect which opened up some kind of vortex and we were exposed to something from the future including there technology boy would things get interesting then would they not!!

[AgentAppleseed]

"some kind of vortex and we were exposed to something from the future including there technology boy would things get interesting then would they not"!!

Just a quick Hypothesis!
Well, the ground tremors, might point to a facility that stretches beneath some parts of the forest, and whatever tech is opening the portal may have been under your feet. Lets say weve got three or more large energy beam devices, and suppose for a second they are like laser pointers, of the kind commonly used by lecturers in conference halls. Now lets say that, these devices shoot a beam which looks like a laser pointer beam, and these beams focus onto a point which becomes a plasma ball or energy ball of some kind, and lets say this ball would appear where the red dot on a laser pointer might be. Lets say then, that each of these three devices is in a different area, but are all, on, or near Bentwaters. So.... lets say each device is fired up, and as they reach full power, some form of plasma ball or energy ball appears in the sky on the end of the laser beam(which itself is invisible so the plasma ball looks like its flying in the sky). Now imagine the guys controling these devices are manipulating the beam in preparation for the second phase of the experiment, so they start moving the beam into a target area. This moving of the beam, or aiming of the beam, would seem to an onlooker on the ground, as though the plasma ball or ball of energy, were flying around in the sky, as opposed to what it was really doing, which was being pushed around by the beam that is focusing the energy into the ball and which in turn is being aimed by the controllers. Then someone might see the beam itself, as atmospherics allowed it to pop into view for a moment or two; a sight which might make a person think that the plasma ball was shooting out lasers, when in actual fact its just the laser powering the plasma ball instead. Now, lets say the controllers on the ground then attempt to converge all three energy beams, so that the plasma balls combine together and suddenly youve got an interference pattern or portal, but the people on the ground think they are looking at three plasma balls flying around and then suddenly coming together to form one object. Now, somehow, make it so that all three devices can be aimed simultaneously and brought down to ground level, along with the portal and along come Burroughs, who enters the portal, and meets people from the future, who may or may not be complicit in the experiment. Of course, maybe these people from the future can send a craft through the portal too.

[John Burroughs]

Appleseed
Anybody with a background in science care to take a wack at that?

[Frank]

Anybody with a background in science care to take a wack at that?

Yes, there is - or rather was - somebody with an impressive background in science that can at least partially explain what you went through. His name is Paul Hill, he was a NASA scientist and he studied many, many UFO cases for years. This is not some cook who claims all kinds of wild things - on the contrary, he is a sober-minded scientist who just takes the data, his scientific knowledge and tries to make some sense of it. He wrote a book full of solid mathematical proof to back up his theories. In his book he proposes a theory that could explain UFO flight characteristics and other effects that are typical for UFO encounters. His theory is based on many cases, not just one, and he wrote down his stuff five years before the RFI occured.

He explains ALL UFO flight characteristics with just ONE assumption: The UFO manufacturers know how to generate and even aim a force that repels mass. He claims that the typical hum often heard as well as felt when a UFO comes close is a cyclic ripple on this force field, probably a side effect of their force field generators. So what would happen if a large UFO comes over your head? You would feel as well as hear a humming and the ground would tremble as well. Another thing that would happen if you were hit by this field is that you would feel a force pushing you to the ground, just like Adrian did.

The gamma radiation and strong electrical fields of a UFO propably play a role in generating the repulsive force field. They will also produce a plasma layer around the craft that varies in intensity depending on the amount of power needed by the craft.

Hill predics more: UFO's would not only need such a field for propulsion, they would also need a less powerful and diffuse field around the craft to reduce the air drag. If this "anti-air-drag field" would still be switched on at low speeds or while hovering, it would have a cooling effect on the surrounding air. The air around the craft would condensate and start dripping water. Water drops that are lightened by a plasma surrounding the craft would look like drips of molten metal - exactly what Halt and his men reported. There even is a civilian witness who saw the craft up close and said it was dripping like melting ice.

An interesting thing to do for you, John (and for other forum members, too):
You can read parts of the book on-line with the "look inside" option at Amazon.
If you scroll a bit to the part called "The UFO pattern: a condensed statement of repeated observations" you can read a list of typical elements of UFO encounters. Here you can check for yourself how many elements from this list you recognize.
http://www.amazon.com/Unconventional-Flying-Objects-Scientific-Analysis/dp/1571740279

[AgentAppleseed]

There even is a civilian witness who saw the craft up close and said it was dripping like melting ice.

Yes, indeed, it is true that there was a witness who claimed the above, and to my mind that statement provides corroboration, of the effect seen by Halt and Nevels albeit described in a typically idiosyncratic fashion by a witness, unrelated to either of the two airmen. That witness decription of the object, was mentioned in Y.C.T.T.P, and even then, I remember the description sticking out in my mind. If Im not mistaken, and I very well may be, this particular witness described the object as seemingly cone shaped? I dont have a copy of the book to hand, and anyway, its beside the point being made.

I would be somewhat familiar with this idea myself, having considered similar theories put forward around the kinds of themes Franks scientist covers. I like the sound of what this scientist has to say, and Id just like to point out to those who might be a bit quick to jump to conclusions, that none of the theory put forth by the scientist, necessarily points to Aliens, or people from the future etc. Nevertheless, its an interesting idea to contemplate the possibility of it being man made, which is, I believe, the main theme of our discussion on this particular thread. I would be interested in hearing what other people may have to say, especially from those who are familiar with the area and the technology that is indigenous to it. Would there be anything in the area that might be related albeit even in an ambiguous fashion, to what is being described?

The hypothesis I put forward last night was thrown together spur of the moment, based on science that has been proven to exist. The part about the portal however, is purely conjecture, yet it would seem to be a possibility given the nature of this incident. I do have other, more well thought out theories which I have put together over time, based on established scientific theories, and a lot of forward thinking on my part, about where these sciences are headed, all of which, covers the nature of what the witnesses encountered in the forest, its capabilities, and its implications for the world, humanity, our history, both past, present and future, and finally, what I believe is the reason for secrecy around the issue, but these theories are best put forward at another time. You certainly can not tell the people!

[AgentAppleseed]

how to generate and even aim a force that repels mass. He claims that the typical hum often heard as well as felt when a UFO comes close is a cyclic ripple on this force field, probably a side effect of their force field generators. So what would happen if a large UFO comes over your head? You would feel as well as hear a humming and the ground would tremble as well.

All very interesting, and Id like to point out, that anyone standing within a certain proximity of that ripple effect, surrounding the craft, may well be carried along with the craft, as it traveled, in a similar fashion to how a swimmer, would be carried along and swept in toward the shoreline, by a wave in the ocean coming from behind them and headed toward land. You wouldnt even need to be touching the craft!

[John Burroughs]

Now let me ask another question! And please understand I have brought this up for 2 reasons one my Hypnosis and two statements have been over and over again that we didn't have the technology to create any of what happened to us. Well I have found stuff that could create some of what we saw and I have observed certain things that have happened while I was deployed that we were doing that looked a lot like some of the things we experienced! Now I'm sure someone somewhere has stated this before but if there coming from the future for what ever reason how would that effect what we know about what is going on with UFO and what were doing to us? And would we not look different from the future?

[Frank]

From the future could be a little problematic. Suppose one of the men on board would be one of your grand-grand-...-grand children, but he makes a mistake and lands on your head before his grand-grand-..-grand father is even born. How could he exist then ..? So time travel means a lot of potential problems. There are ways of avoiding them, but that would mean there have to exist many universes - each with their own history - or that causality can work backwards in time and prevents paradoxes to arise. This is all speculation of course, nobody knows if and how time travel will ever be possible and how these paradoxes like 'killing you father before you are even born' can be avoided.

One step further and you wind up in theories that we all just exist in some simulation that can be manipulated at will (like the movie "The Matrix"). But I would rather not go there ..

There is a much simpler possibility, without any paradoxes. Just look to the sky at night and you''ll realize that this spec we live on will probably not be the only planet that harbours life. And since our planet is relatively young it is entirely possible that someone else has figured out how to get here.

The "time traveller" theory came up during the hypnotic regression of you and Jim, didn't it? Could it be possible that you received a message such as "we are your future", to be interpreted as "we are ahead of you in technology but sooner or later you can do the same"? Or maybe your brains simply try to fill in the gaps during the regression and for you a time traveller is easier to to accept than an extraterrestial. I once heard Jim say in a documentary he didn't believe in aliens. And it may be very hard to accept something you do not believe in, even in an hypnotic regression.