New fillets of concrete..... For LW

General discussion about the Rendlesham forest incident

New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby Wolf » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:00 pm

Hi Larry

I was told a while ago that when you paid a 'visit' to Bentwaters with Richard Conway, you showed him some concrete fillets that had been laid in one of the TAB-V/HAS's, which you said was covering an entrance to part of the underground facility. Did I hear this right and do you recall what building number/s this was/were.

Personally I have seen no evidence for any form of underground storage in the HAS's (or indeed the WSA/NMSA's) on Bentwaters and Woodbridge, as the WS3 system was never installed on these bases. I do know that some of the hardened operations buildings had underground rooms which contained storage taks for gas for the generators.

V/R

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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby redsocks » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:35 am

Wolf wrote:Hi Larry

I was told a while ago that when you paid a 'visit' to Bentwaters with Richard Conway, you showed him some concrete fillets that had been laid in one of the TAB-V/HAS's, which you said was covering an entrance to part of the underground facility. Did I hear this right and do you recall what building number/s this was/were.

Personally I have seen no evidence for any form of underground storage in the HAS's (or indeed the WSA/NMSA's) on Bentwaters and Woodbridge, as the WS3 system was never installed on these bases. I do know that some of the hardened operations buildings had underground rooms which contained storage taks for gas for the generators.

V/R

Wolf


The WS3 system (missile vault) was never used at Bentwaters,I went into this at length with a serving airmen from RAF Lakenheath (where WS3 is used) who served at Bentwaters who told me this was never installed............wheres the evidence for these claims?

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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby larry warren » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:39 pm

hi,
as for the under ground thing , im again not the only one that talks about that
we were meddled with alot, so was it on bentwaters or was it not? i only knew
the office that i came out of , after being gone a few days, and that was near air field ops and
dirrectly from the labs. who knows? id could take you to the building if its still around.
as for underground structors on the base in general, we spoke to highly placed PSA
people, who told us there was indeed a large ug facility, and that tunnels connected
the twin basses, contact peter robbins, or is he lying aswell!
pull ye books out of the bin, a review might answer some of this stuff!
rock n roll!
larry
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby puddlepirate » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:54 pm

I have no idea as to what does or does not exist underground at Woodbridge / Bentwaters.

However, Brenda Butler suggests in Skycrash that underground complexes exist at several sites in the area, with each linked to the other by tunnels. Others say not. One thing that does definitely exist though is some kind of underground tunnel - perhaps for cables or pipework - that runs from directly opposite the end of Woodbridge runway, out through the forest towards Capel Green. Every 150 yards or so there is a concrete covered access shaft. The shafts are brick built and from the look of the concrete covers, appear to date from WW2. They do not seem to be ventilation shafts, just access shafts. I have photos of some of them which I took only a few weeks ago.

Many major defence locations have underground complexes to protect vital departments from attack, e.g. communication centres (COMCENS) are frequently sited some depth below ground. Think of Churchill's war rooms, Dover Castle and Adm Ramsay's HQ located within the white cliffs. I know of four major underground facilities - I worked in two of them - that were in use by NATO forces during the Cold War and at least three of these are still in use today. Most of these facilities have external plant such as effing great big generators and aircon vents - though these might be camouflaged.

One mystery is what did the forty or so radar technicians drafted into Bentwaters after the work on Orfordness ceased in 1973*, actually do? Where did they work? What were they up to? Surely they must have been involved in work similar to that which they had been engaged in previously so where were their labs? Is it possible that if an underground complex does exist, that the bulk of it lies outside the perimeter of the bases? Somewhere under the forest perhaps?

*See: Orfordness - Secret Site; Kinsey, G; Lavenham Press 1981 (it's available in some public libraries) for more info.
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby puddlepirate » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:04 pm

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/DoFlyingTrian.htm - go to the bottom of the page.....

Some while back somebody mentioned on the forum something about greenish lights been seen underwater at Orfordness - does anyone remember this being said? Can anyone add anything to that?

Larry - apparently you suggested something similar in LAEG. Do you have any comment to make?
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby larry warren » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:28 pm

hi
in 1988, peter and my self saw one or two green lights with long tails moving through the trees south
of the bent waters base, that and a number of other weird things.
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby Wolf » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:33 pm

You're a tough crowd.

RS - I know, The Eagles never landed, so the nests never got updated, so to speak.

LW - Personally I am not accusing you of lying, but I have never seen any proof and as they say I have never seen anything that would 'confirm or deny' their existance. Answer your PM's.

Keep on pickin

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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby larry warren » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:31 pm

hi guys
i will respond to the under ground questions, have done but i think the posts are going to mars?
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby Wolf » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:20 am

Hi LW

Nope, nothings arrived yet. Guess this will have to be an over a beer discussion at some point.

Cheers

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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby larry warren » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:57 pm

Hi Wolf,
i just found out you have to save this stuff els it goes to mars.
let me try an cover this underground stuff for you now,the thing with rich conway was 11 years ago,
and all i really remember was Brenda Butler helping to push me and my fat arse over the fence, getting
soaked and hiding from MOD security.
at one point we did find some areas that seemed to have been cemented over, the wsa was one of those
places, and another building aswell, id really have to do the walk again, and would happy to do so in the near future.
I do not think that aliens are or were under the base, and have never done so, i know that the feds that messed
with some of us in the after math of the ufo events wanted the potential lose cannons to think that, so should
we talk about that we would sound like nuts.
the problem i have with Halt is that he knows who f..ked with us and wont say, i wasent afosi, in fact those clowns
had very little to do with the events at all, sorryyou cant tell the people fans! but thats the fact jack!
had they pulled shit with my son that they pulled with me and others, id hunt them all down and hurt them!
perhaps thats why the officiers wont let us know what they know? alot of punks would have to go underground.
funny though, i still remember the feeling of decent as if in an elevator?
hope this helps for now.
larry
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby puddlepirate » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:23 pm

Hi Larry
hi
in 1988, peter and my self saw one or two green lights with long tails moving through the trees south
of the bent waters base, that and a number of other weird things.


Just out of interest, what other 'odd things'?....
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby larry warren » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:33 pm

hi puddle,
would be happy to do so but if you havent bined your copy of the book , in it you will find an extensive transcript
of that event , in real time , as the sighting was recorded by peter robbins, its a bit of a dry read but will give you
a better idea of what went down.
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby larry warren » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:56 pm

Just a question for you all.
is anybody on this site connected to the bentwaters museum?
if so, i have the Bentwaters main site sign ,that stood in the round about at the flightline road entrance,
it was there in 1980 aswell.
some unkown people hack sawed it off its supports and forced me to eccept it for my 35th birthday and
then forced my at gun point im sure to take it back to the states! ive since recovered from the experiance,
and am now happy to donate it to the museum, and send it back toits home!
im in the states in november and will gladly mail it to the museum at my expense if those people want it?
guys just let me know!
larry, victem of forced bentwaters sign ownership!
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby puddlepirate » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:00 pm

Hi Larry, yes...Graham Haynes is your man. Not sure if he is the curator of the Bentwaters Museum but he certainly is very involved with it.
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby ghaynes » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:15 pm

Hi Larry,
Yep, I run the museum at Bentwaters. We would really appreciate the Bentwaters sign! Thanks for the very kind offer. Please pm me when you require mailing details.
Thanks once again.
Regards.

Graham

larry warren wrote:Just a question for you all.
is anybody on this site connected to the bentwaters museum?
if so, i have the Bentwaters main site sign ,that stood in the round about at the flightline road entrance,
it was there in 1980 aswell.
some unkown people hack sawed it off its supports and forced me to eccept it for my 35th birthday and
then forced my at gun point im sure to take it back to the states! ive since recovered from the experiance,
and am now happy to donate it to the museum, and send it back toits home!
im in the states in november and will gladly mail it to the museum at my expense if those people want it?
guys just let me know!
larry, victem of forced bentwaters sign ownership!
Visit Bentwaters Aviation Society on the web:
http://www.bentwaters-as.org.uk
http://www.bcwm.org.uk
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby Andy » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:46 am

puddlepirate wrote:http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/DoFlyingTrian.htm - go to the bottom of the page.....

Some while back somebody mentioned on the forum something about greenish lights been seen underwater at Orfordness - does anyone remember this being said? Can anyone add anything to that?

Larry - apparently you suggested something similar in LAEG. Do you have any comment to make?


I know of one person who live at Orford who has often seen the green lights under the water, however i also recall someone else suggesting this was something to do with sewage?.... I personally don't know. However, the person i speak of begs to differ. Also, a respected, no nonsense colleague of mine has a friend, who he claims to also be no nonsense, apparently, i've never met him myself, but have no reason to question my colleagues judgement, who allegedly saw a morphing 'UFO' for want of a better word, appearing to be on a pillar of water over Orford Ness, before shooting off in a blink of an eye. As said, i can only relay what i was told. I personally wasn't there, so i really don't know.
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby ghaynes » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:44 am

I suspect the green 'lights' under the water at Orford are plankton. Have seen this phenomena a number of times (not just at Orford) when I used to go night fishing. Only happens at certain times of the year (usually summer).
Regards.

Graham

Andy wrote:
puddlepirate wrote:http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/DoFlyingTrian.htm - go to the bottom of the page.....

Some while back somebody mentioned on the forum something about greenish lights been seen underwater at Orfordness - does anyone remember this being said? Can anyone add anything to that?

Larry - apparently you suggested something similar in LAEG. Do you have any comment to make?


I know of one person who live at Orford who has often seen the green lights under the water, however i also recall someone else suggesting this was something to do with sewage?.... I personally don't know. However, the person i speak of begs to differ. Also, a respected, no nonsense colleague of mine has a friend, who he claims to also be no nonsense, apparently, i've never met him myself, but have no reason to question my colleagues judgement, who allegedly saw a morphing 'UFO' for want of a better word, appearing to be on a pillar of water over Orford Ness, before shooting off in a blink of an eye. As said, i can only relay what i was told. I personally wasn't there, so i really don't know.
Visit Bentwaters Aviation Society on the web:
http://www.bentwaters-as.org.uk
http://www.bcwm.org.uk
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby puddlepirate » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:36 pm

Thanks Graham...

The 'lights' are probably phosphorescence - a phenomenon frequently observed in the wake of ships at night. However, there is some evidence (although nothing has been conclusively proven) to suggest that radar can somehow initiate this effect. It is, apparently, a phenomenon more associated with warm water but it has occured in the north Atlantic. The following links provide more information:

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf078/sf078g13.htm
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v1 ... 174a0.html

The interesting thing here is that the North Sea is cold and that the lights were observed either from a small fishing boat, presumably stationary and/or from the shore. The proximity to Orfordness suggests that if radar does indeed influence such phenomena, then activity on the 'ness might be linked to the phosphorescence observed in the water.

Moreover, as phosporescence tends to appear more in warm water than cold, then perhaps to make it appear in cold water requires a strong radar emission in a particular waveband.

If it could be proved that this was so and if it could also be proven that the observations of the phosphorescence showed some kind of a pattern, i.e. at regular intervals, on a particular time on a given day or night, continued for a reasonably fixed duration etc. Then it might be possible to link the appearance of the phosphorescence to experiments being conducted on Orfordness or somewhere nearby, Bawdsey perhaps?

I seem to recall JB mentioning ELF a while back. There is also some interesting information about the effects of ELF on humans, in particular the odd sensations on the skin, hair standing on end and so forth. Also, if I have understood what I have read thus far correctly, ELF was/is being used in experiments to detect the presence of biological/chemical weapons.

This is pure conjecture but what if there were lights observed in the water at Orfordness during the latter part of Dec 1980 and what if those lights could also be produced by strong radar or ELF transmissions. We might - but only might and it is a very big might at that - have some connection between experiments on the 'ness, the technicians the Americans moved into Bentwaters when Cobra Mist closed in 'Jul 73, peculiar radar or ELF transmissions and the odd sensations experienced by personnel in the forest. Of course, this does not explain the craft that the witnesses saw.

World Health Organisation info on the effects of ELF:

http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc ... Number:2.5

US Dept of Labor reports on ELF:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/elfradiation/h ... fects.html

Re the craft: Oddly, and this is totally unsubstantiated so could be complete and utter tosh, if you check back on a couple of the Apollo missions - 11 is one - the astronauts reported seeing what appeared to be 'man' made objects on the Moon, one of which appears to (loosely) match the description of what the witnesses saw in the forest, Penniston's in particular.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/moon.html

Scroll down the page displayed by the link above and you will find this:

When Apollo-12 crew landed on the lunar surface, they saw that the landing was observed by a half-transparent pyramidal object. It was hanging just several meters above the lunar surface and shimmered with all rainbow colors against the black sky.


Could be total BS for all I know - I've just added this last bit because of the coincidence element.

Interestingly - we now have something that vaguely looks like something the Apollo 12 astronauts claimed to have seen, an Apollo capsule was on base at Bentwaters and the 67th ARRS were specialists in astronaut recovery. Not sure what that means but from all of the above there appears to be a gossamer thin link between all of that and the RFI.
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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby redsocks » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:25 am

larry warren wrote:hi,
as for the under ground thing , im again not the only one that talks about that
we were meddled with alot, so was it on bentwaters or was it not? i only knew
the office that i came out of , after being gone a few days, and that was near air field ops and
dirrectly from the labs. who knows? id could take you to the building if its still around.
as for underground structors on the base in general, we spoke to highly placed PSA
people, who told us there was indeed a large ug facility, and that tunnels connected
the twin basses, contact peter robbins, or is he lying aswell!
pull ye books out of the bin, a review might answer some of this stuff!
rock n roll!
larry


Why would the book give the answer larry when thats where the wrong information on this fact comes from?

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Re: New fillets of concrete..... For LW

Postby robert » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:20 am

Andy wrote:
puddlepirate wrote:http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/DoFlyingTrian.htm - go to the bottom of the page.....

Some while back somebody mentioned on the forum something about greenish lights been seen underwater at Orfordness - does anyone remember this being said? Can anyone add anything to that?

Larry - apparently you suggested something similar in LAEG. Do you have any comment to make?


I know of one person who live at Orford who has often seen the green lights under the water, however i also recall someone else suggesting this was something to do with sewage?.... I personally don't know. However, the person i speak of begs to differ. Also, a respected, no nonsense colleague of mine has a friend, who he claims to also be no nonsense, apparently, i've never met him myself, but have no reason to question my colleagues judgement, who allegedly saw a morphing 'UFO' for want of a better word, appearing to be on a pillar of water over Orford Ness, before shooting off in a blink of an eye. As said, i can only relay what i was told. I personally wasn't there, so i really don't know.


Andy,
I'm new to this site but I thought I'd just post this bit as it seemed relevant to your observations RE Orford., Green Lights etc.

UFO researcher Brenda Butler also heard stories that local fisherman were instructed not to fish in waters between Bawdesy and Orfordness between 25th to 30th of December. The fisherman were paid for any losses incurred by not fishing.
She was told by a local fisherman of a strange craft that was seen going into the sea near Orfordness.

SOURCE;
http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/youcanttell.html

Scroll down to the last third of the page.

If you go through the whole page there are some additional observations from Georgina Bruni's book.


On the same page there is a Colonel Spring mentioned who was apparently involved at Rendlesham on the Nights in question.
Again being new I don't know whether this character has been mentioned on this site but the only one I can come up with is a USAF Colonel 'Woody' Spring. Ex Edwards Airforce Base, flying experimental Aircraft and subsequently a NASA Astronaut.

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