Old scraps of info - do they mean anything more now?

[ghaynes]

Hi Graham

It would have taken off from where it normally took off from. The first proper shuttle flight was in April 81 so this (if it happened at all, don't forget) would not have been a regular shuttle mission, only a training flight. It would not have taken off from anywhere in the UK - nor would it have been a covert mission as such. Why would it?

Hi Puddlepirate,
That was my point. Any shuttle flight would not have escaped considerable media attention. I can find no evidence to say that there were test flights being carried out at the time of the Rendlesham incident.
For a full list of shuttle flights take a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sp ... e_missions
Regards.

Graham

[puddlepirate]

There was a three and a half year gap between the last Orbiter free flight in Sept 77 (of which there were only five, very short flights to test landing gear and brakes) and the first scheduled shuttle mission in April 81. During the landing of flight 5 the pilots experienced a problem with roll so it seems odd that NASA went straight from five very short test flights, with the last experiencing a problem, straight into a scheduled mission three and a half years later. Something must have gone on in between.

Also, as with most aircraft (e.g. Concorde) the flights that get the media attention are the first public flight or a catastrophe. Anything in between is never that newsworthy and as routine stuff doesn't sell papers, it is usually ignored. Even the Rendlesham incident is of little interest to the mainstream media.

[redsocks]

Forum,

I believe the mysterious Steve Roberts holds the key to this mystery. It was he who broke the story to Brenda Butler and he was also the the guy who told her that the story had been a hoax perpetrated by the USAF. He told Butler that he and several others had been ordered by their superiors to go out and spread UFO stories among ufologists.

What a brilliant cover for the radar testing of Senior Trend or Have Blue over the UK. Better the public (or more likely the Russians) think that this strange thing flying around the sky was of alien origin than a classified Stealth aircraft.

Why start spreading rumours New Years Eve 1980 before the incident ever became public ? It doesn't make sense . . . unless . .

I have posted before my thoughts about Larry Warren. I didn't know who he was when I met him and felt he wasn't telling the truth. I asked him if he had any current involvment with the Air Force (was post 911 2001) and he said not, but I was stunned by his incongruence. He wasn't telling the truth at all. BTW if you're reading this Larry I thought you were a very decent chap - I'm a big SRV fan.

But, Penniston? He's been on Larry King 3 times in the last month talking about the triangle craft and the symbols. He retired now - so is Halt. Why continue a deception ? Why stand up at the NPC infront of the world press and tell the same story. Watch the UFO invasion at Rend doc. and see how he's freaked out reading his notes in the forest - taking a step back to have a "Wow Jeez it's all coming back" moment. IMHO that's PTSD from some kind of drug experience.

Getting late here so I'll sign off. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Also does anyone know who Steve Roberts (Dan) is ? He was an SP apparently.

No time for secrets now - Georgina dedicated her life for this, we owe her.

ST.

Great post Silvertop,You have so hit the nail on the head with what you have said and I couldnt agree more.I'm 100% sure the Rendlesham incident is a man made accident/experiment that the powers that be are covering up with a UFO story and using certain airmen that were there to do so.This forum is definatly on the right track with the developments that have gone on here in recent months and I will own up that behind the forum we have been discussing a theory that is very substantial and with the support of the right witness the incident would simply be solved,but that would just be the start of things cos the press will have a field day.
Your right lets solve this for Georgina.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi all

Just to clear up who said what.
I mentioned in one post that Penniston described a pyramid shaped object in the forest as having a smooth glass like texture/feel, plus this statement is well documented.
In another post i said that Larry Warren described another object, not in the forest as looking a bit old fashioned, Admin corrected my statement by adding that Warren had said it was covered in tiles.
Two different objects in two different places.

Its an interesting theory re the shuttle or early orbiter, but we must try and establish when thermo tiles were first used as against the date of the incident and when the first use of tiles was made and on which orbiter? Tie this up and we might be some where.

Observer

[ghaynes]

[/quote]
According to the WIKI article on Enterprise Orbiter had no tiles. Instead of a Thermal Protection System, its surface was primarily fiberglass.
[/quote]

I'm guessing that Enterprise wasn't fitted with a thermal protection system as it wasn't destined to go into space.
Regards.

Graham

[puddlepirate]

To be honest I agree with Silvertop.

I've tried to back up my theories with evidence but despite best endeavours, there is nothing that can be supported by evidence that fits the 'facts'. There are so many conflicting statements that the whole thing becomes a nonsense.

So I go back to my previous comments that the whole thing could, allegedly, be the result of two bored airmen in the Bentwaters flight tower who, during a deathly boring all night on, ring their mates at East Gate claiming to have seen strange lights over the forest. Then, amused by the result, do it again when they've got the next watch. This time, the SP decide to get their own back by claiming to have seen something and thus the hoax is born.....and it would only take a couple of people to perpetrate the myth. Perhaps that's why there are no other witnesses apart from those we know.

[Observer]

Hi puddlepirate

It's quite possible that the whole thing was a hoax for the reasons you explained. I just don't think men [of all ranks] would risk their careers or risk disciplinary action. Its one thing to start a huge hoax in the base on US soil but to deliberately instigate a hoax that would obviously spill over off base on to British sovereign territory where British people would get involved is i think very unlikely. From my experience of knowing people that worked at this base, the last thing they would want is the British Police knocking on the door of the OC. This wouldn't be your local 'Bobbies' this would be a high ranking Officer from the County HQ.
No way.

Observer

[Deep Purple]

We've sort of covered this before. If it were a hoax why was it not seen so at the time?
If it was a hoax it would have needed a lot of people to keep quiet for a long time.
Statements never tie up really , people see things in very different ways and remember very different things---- especially about unusual events.
Most people when confronted by something unexpected or unusual do not have a clear recolection of the event.
If it is a hoax it has been created with authorities knowledge, probably to cover up the Stealth Fighter or tests of it as I have previously posted.
As a simple "bored airmen" hoax that has gone out of control --- no way.
If it was a hoax surely Halt would have sussed it and got to the bottom of it and declared it was a hoax, or something along the lines " we have reviewed all the evidence and believe it was a pratical joke being played by unknown airmen, we are still attempting to indentify them with a view to disciplinary action being taken"
The authorities ( probably not the UK ) have gone to some lengths to cover this up. Even on this forumn you see strange events occuring ,people popping up from know where with apparent detailed knowledge then slipping away into the night.
I dont think the problem will be solved by nit picking over statements rather by asking the question " What wouldnt they have wanted us to know/ see?"
The answers could be Steatlh/ Alien probe landing/ weapons test/ Secret aircraft test that went wrong amongst other things.
Xmas would be a very good time to test a truly black project.
Other things to bear in mind are little damage to forest/ no apparent contamination/ seems to have been contolled by us.

[Observer]

Hi deep purple

I can sense the frustration, but maybe we are not asking the right questions to the right people. Georgina tried this and some of the responses were interesting.

As i have said on this forum before. My old pal [he's passed on now] who was a crew Chief in the ARRS told me once years ago that if i was told what had happened, i would laugh and say pull the other one.
That surely must be a clue.

Observer

[puddlepirate]

It would take very few people to start a hoax like this and almost certainly it was never intended to go this far. Young lads, junior ranks, bored, Christmas Night, nothing happening and still hours to go to the end of the watch... It's all too easy. A quick phonecall to the east gate guard room then sit back to see what happens...probably listen to the reports coming through. Then once Penniston, Burroughs and Cabansang realise they've been had, to get their own back they concoct a sighting to spare themselves ridicule etc..

To get an all night on when it's quiet is mind numbingly boring. They probably only intended to wind up the SP at East Gate, nothing more. They got away with it on the first night so did it again on the third.......but this time the SP (a different lot on guard duty this time) took it more seriously because they'd already learned that something had been seen on the first night so got Halt involved. It might even be that the lads who started it off were off watch on the third night and decided to go into the forest armed with torches and fireworks to wind up the SP even more but didn't bank on Halt becoming involved. It would only take three or four airmen, no more. Two in the tower, three in the forest. Dead easy to keep that quiet......and let's face it, if you were part of the gang of five, having got away with it, would you spill the beans? I wouldn't...I wouldn't dare!

All the rest of it could, allegedly, be pure invention on behalf of the witnesses......somethng that got totally out of hand - and now there is no going back.

[Observer]

Hi

One of my mates from the MHAS who has been a keen aviation nut for years suggested that if there had been some damage to the landing lights, it could simply be an aircraft possibly an A-10 that came in too low on approach and clipped the lights but landed safely. These occurrences do happen, as it happened at my old base with a Canberra.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi Guys,


You know I totally agree with your hoax sentiments,but why o why would these grown men keep this hoax going for so long,surely there must be more stuff to do in the USA ? If they are keeping an old yarn going for all these years that would be such a loser thing to do...I really dont know what to think but am edgeing towards the hoax theory big time here.Thing is maybe getting the press involved with some serious hoax evidence and kill this once and for all.Message to JB we are still willing to have you over here to put your views forward,after all it seems all |Halt and Penniston at the moment

[Observer]

Hi guys

I don't disagree with the hoax theory, we have been here before, but i think it was a hoax to cover up some thing else. That to me is a perfectly reasonable assumption. A 30 year hoax doesn't make sense if it was some caper dreampt up by a few bored airmen. The story they tell was far too elaborate if it was all made up as a hoax.

The UFO story was a perfect smoke screen and i think that those perpetuating this story are being 'coached' and possibly paid to continue it.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi guys

I don't disagree with the hoax theory, we have been here before, but i think it was a hoax to cover up some thing else. That to me is a perfectly reasonable assumption. A 30 year hoax doesn't make sense if it was some caper dreampt up by a few bored airmen. The story they tell was far too elaborate if it was all made up as a hoax.

The UFO story was a perfect smoke screen and i think that those perpetuating this story are being 'coached' and possibly paid to continue it.

Observer

Here what you are saying Observer and agree it does seem a tad odd that these guys would need to keep a hoax going for so long and I mentioned this in my last post, but I think this must fall into two catagories 1)It is indeed a hoax as suggested by various still serving airmen I have spoken to.
2)There was an incident weither it be weaponry or other and this must also be considered because like weve said why would these guys keep this going for so long,most are making nothing from it.
But lets not be silly here we are NEVER going to know the truth if it is the latter unless somebody comes forward,but they wont because it would disrupt there lives so much who would want to live with the reprecussions of that............

Redsocks

[redsocks]

Hi Guys,


You know I totally agree with your hoax sentiments,but why o why would these grown men keep this hoax going for so long,surely there must be more stuff to do in the USA ? If they are keeping an old yarn going for all these years that would be such a loser thing to do...I really dont know what to think but am edgeing towards the hoax theory big time here.Thing is maybe getting the press involved with some serious hoax evidence and kill this once and for all.Message to JB we are still willing to have you over here to put your views forward,after all it seems all |Halt and Penniston at the moment

Can I just add to this,would you JB willing to undertake a lie detector test as part of your visit to the UK??

Redsocks

[Observer]

Silvertop

I think it was an un manned aeriel surviellance module that had just over flown Russia collecting data. Check Biscester FT crash 1967.
It could be a later variant of tjhe D-21 vehicle and was above top secret at that time.
Although the D-21 programme was ended in the 70's, there could well be a later variant not disclosed.
Its the sort of thing that would warrent all the dis information and UFO cover story.

Observer

[puddlepirate]

It has been said before that once everything probable has been investigated and disproved then whatever is left, no matter how improbable, has to be the truth. And so it is with the hoax.

Each and every theory that has been presented on this forum, not just mine but everyone else's as well, from the lighthouse to the orbiter and all those in between, have been disproved.

Regarding some kind of pyschops experiment involving mind control etc: to conduct such an experiment in the forest is simply not practical. Experiments are conducted in controlled environments where the reaction of the subjects of the experiment can be closely observed and monitored. There is usually a benchmark or control to establish 'normal' or standard behaviours against which the changed behaviours are measured. The forest was not a controlled environment and the activity was such that a control would be almost impossible to establish. If the events of each night had been absolutely identical in every respect, then that could be challenged but they weren't. They were different.

Therefore, what we have left is the highly improbable - but possibly the truth. Like it or not the evidence, such as it is, points to the fact that nothing of any real significance happened in the forest. No civilian witnesses, no noise, nothing observed by anyone other then the four of five key players. no police involvement, nothing on radar, no reports to the local press, nobody saw anything untoward - and the mainstream media have no interest in the incident at all.

That nobody else saw anything is simply not possible with the amount of activity that, allegedly, took place. It is claimed that between 70 and 80 USAF personnel were in the forest with floodlights and vehicles, that at least one road block was set up, that the events were filmed, that there were bright lights in the sky, that at least one beam of light shone down down on the WSA, a craft crashed down through the trees leaving indentations on the forest floor, another craft landed the field emitting light, a craft moved through the trees then took off at high speed and so forth.....yet not one person, apart from those known to us, either USAF or civilian has ever come forward to provide any evidence to back up any of this.

The people living in Folly House, right at the end of the Woodbridge runway appear not to have seen anything, nor did anyone else living nearby. Nor, astonishingly did the farmer, yet he had a whole team of USAF personnel charging across his land, right outside his house, in the middle of the night. Farmers don't leave their animals unattended; cows have to be milked, animals have to be fed etc so somebody must have been in residence.

Therefore, rightly or wrongly, I strongly believe this was a hoax started by a couple of bored airmen who thought it a great idea to play joke on their mates in the SP. It all got out of hand once Halt was involved and for various reasons, probably to save ridicule and embarrassment, nobody can now back down. It is also my view that, allegedly, once it became public, rather than make the USAF look foolish, Halt (with authorisation) created a memo and a tape to back up a UFO story. I would image there were reprimands but it was necessary to protect the reputation of the USAF and the Rendlesham Incident was created as a cover story.

I really hope someone can prove me wrong - but don't just say...'That's a complete load of BS'....please come back with 'That's a complete load of BS because .......' and provide EVIDENCE to back up what you say. Not hearsay but hard evidence that can be verified.

[John Burroughs]

Were you out there? No so I think its great that you can call me a liar but you were not even there. There were Civ people who saw lights that night but the funney thing is why say anything because we have to deal with people like you who say it was a hoax or the light house which is was not. All most everybody involved talks about seeing strange lights flying around in the sky and several people saw the beams comming down to the ground. Larry Warren got the story out it was not any of the main people involved running around looking for money or fame. And guess what we have had to live with not knowing what happened to us and listening to people like you playing arm chair quaterback and telling me what happened. How do you know it was not a controlled test? You don't period and as far as the witness go a Civ family from what I was told was moved shortly after the incident happened. Plus when CNN was conducting there investigation they were told by the Air Force they stood by Halts memo that somthing happened. And why all of the missing documents and the British Mod holding back all of there documents for so long. Why would the Commander of 3rd Air Force show up per the MOD to collect the evidence. There is so much more but I have said a enough for now if I come over I would gladley meet you face to face and anybody else who likes to play arm chair quaterback about what happened to me! The idiot James Megha who they love to put on did a radio show with me years ago and he went down in flames. The truth is out there and it ties into what the government was involved in at the time........

[puddlepirate]

Hi JB. Fair comment. I wasn't there. I would love to meet up and get to the bottom of this, as would many of the contributors to this forum.

A question. I served over 12yrs with the Royal Naval Reserve. During my periods of full time service with the Royal Navy, I was sent all over the place - Italy, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, States etc....I was only at the these places for a very short time, on exercise mostly but can remember quite a bit about the places we used to go when off watch....the Tennis Hotel just up the track from the NSA just outside Agnano, Italy. the Fox and Dogs, Penny's Disco, Hole in the Wall disco in Gib; Makatis, the Bull and Bear, the Horse and Groom and of course, Mad Dogs in HK; the Naked I cabaret in Boston - the cherished Diamond Lil's plus the Star, Commodores, Boobs, Fiesta etc in Plymouth. Joanna's disco (aka the Royal Naval Academy of Dance - now sadly closed), Beasty's, the Mighty Fine (now the Albany), The Ship Anson, the Ship Leopard and so forth in Portsmouth, Jackie O's in Kircaldy, Night Magic in Dunfermline....the list is quite long.

You were in the USAF at the Twin Bases - you guys like a run ashore as much as anyone. Where did you guys drink or if you didn't drink, where did you like to visit the most? Did you ever go down to London - I guess you must have done being that close. Or over to France perhaps, it's not far. Tell us a bit about your time in the UK and what you and your mates enjoyed about being over here.

[John Burroughs]

Yes I traveled. I lived off base in Ipwich and I went to the local pubs and thats where I came to know what 7 pocket pool is. I didnot like the fact the Pubs closed so early or the high exchange rate Went to Paris once and I visted Londan a few times.Went on several Pub crawels and even saw styx in concert. I really enjoyed Scotland allot I had a girlfriend who worked for a Candian airlines and she flew into Scotland so I hitched up there several times and realley enjoyed myself.