larry warrens story

[zardos]

THE LARRY WARREN STORY

Larry Warren has been connected with the incident since early 1983. Being the first person to go public with the story (using the pseudonym Art Wallace) was not an easy task for this young man, but he was so traumatized by the course of events, he told witness Adrian Bustinza, that he was going to make sure the world knew about it. He lived up to his promise.

In 1997 Larry Warren co-authored Left at East Gate with American researcher Peter Robbins. It is an intriguing story of his early life and his misgivings at being caught up in the Rendlesham Forest incident. As gentle and professional as Peter is, there were moments of intense frustration as he tried to make sense of his co-author's case, and equally so for Larry as he desperately tried to prove his story was genuine. This was a difficult task because the years of stress and nightmares had taken their toll, and more than once Larry had contemplated suicide. It was as a result of his story that I became more interested in this case. Indeed, some of his claims were far more exotic than those of other witnesses, and I felt compelled to investigate if only to discover what it was that had or had not intruded on this young man's life.

Over the years Larry has had to suffer the indignity and criticism of sceptics and ufologists, many of whom insist he could not have been involved because his statements did not match those of other witnesses, coupled with the fact that his story has changed over the years. Like others before me, I discovered that there were several grey areas to his testimony, but then it seemed to me that one does not spend so many years trying to prove one's case if it is nothing but a lie in the first place. I figured that if Larry Warren was intentionally lying he would have dropped out of the story long ago, especially as new evidence surfaced. He certainly has not stayed with it for financial gain, on the contrary, it has cost him a small fortune. It also cost him his marriage and very nearly cost him his life.

Lawrence P. Warren was only eighteen years old when he joined the USAF on 22 July 1980. On 1 December he arrived at RAF Bentwaters, having received basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. When questioned about his Air Force status, Colonel Halt claimed Larry was not on duty at the time of the incident and, furthermore, he was not on the installation. Halt also insisted that he had played no part in the events, and even after Larry produced certain Air Force documents, Halt still had difficulty accepting that he was involved, pointing out that he was not trained for security police duties. Brenda Butler was another person who was sceptical of Larry's involvement. She was inclined to think he might have picked up the story from other witnesses. With this in mind, she once offered him false information about a witness who did not exist. Larry told her that he knew the man and they had discussed the incident in passing. This episode resulted in a damaging stigma to his credibility. I asked him if he would care to comment on the matter:

I admit it was wrong. I was not altogether sure of everything that had taken place the night of the incident, or who some of the others were. I was still grasping for the truth myself. Looking back, I think I was trying to get her attention. She wanted to believe it happened and I wanted to get the story out because it really did happen. I suppose I wanted her to believe me, so I agreed with everything she said.

Witness Jim Penniston also questioned Larry's involvement, agreeing with Colonel Halt that Larry was not trained to be on duty at the time. However, Penniston admits that soon after the incident he had to caution Larry for discussing it with his fellow airmen. I told Penniston that I had a copy of Larry's certificate of training, which certifies that he successfully completed the Security Specialist Course. The course was conducted at USAF Lackland, Texas, and Edward D. Young, Colonel USAF, Commander of the 3250th Technical Training Wing, signed the document. I gave him the date (28 October 1980) and also pointed out that I had an original document entitled 'Report on Individual Personnel', prepared at 21.16 hrs on 11 December 1980. This document was addressed to the 81st Security Police Squadron, Bentwaters, and was signed by Thomas A. Mosely, TSGT USAF, at Bentwaters Classification and Training School. It proves that Lawrence P. Warren had completed further training (including ground defence) at RAF Bentwaters and was assigned to official duties on 11 December 1980.

Having explained the details of Larry's military training to Jim Penniston he had to agree that if the documents were genuine, then there is no doubt that Larry was trained to be on duty at the time of the incident. I also pointed out that Colonel Halt gives credence to witness Edward Cabansag, but Cabansag had only been on official duty for one or two days prior to his involvement in the incident. Surely if Cabansag can be officially assigned to duty and carry an M-16 rifle within two days of completing his training, then why not Larry Warren?

Larry has never been certain of the exact date of his involvement, believing it might have been the first night of his midnight shift with D Flight. This would normally have been 26/27 December, but I have since learnt that the Flights were mixed up due to the Christmas holidays. Based on his testimony, Larry is presumably referring to a later incident. The following is based on his own account of the events with my added comments in parentheses.

It was just after 23.00 hrs when Larry arrived at his posting, which was perimeter post 18, at the furthest end of the flightline on the Bentwaters installation and closest to the Woodbridge base. (This may be an oversight on Larry's part, or it could have changed, but on checking an official Bentwaters map, I noticed that post 18 was not at the perimeter, but was situated in a central position at the mid-way flightline. From what I understand, this was the area where the aircraft were stored, and as such it required special security at all times. Therefore, the guard on duty should not have been removed from his post.)

Soon after midnight Larry began hearing radio transmissions coming from the Bentwaters tower and other transmissions between personnel stationed at RAF Woodbridge. The Woodbridge patrol were observing funny lights bobbing up and down over the forest and Airman Warren was becoming nervous at being so alone in the dead of night. Suddenly a truck arrived with three or four personnel, which included Lieutenant Bruce Englund and Sergeant Adrian Bustinza. Airman Warren was instructed to call Central Security Control and announce he was being relieved of duty at his post.

Sergeant Bustinza then instructed him to climb into the back of the truck and the patrol headed off to the Bentwaters motor pool to fill some light-alls (generator-mounted light systems). (Adrian Bustinza recalls collecting personnel and having them fill the light-alls but, apart from his superiors, he cannot recall the identities of any of the men he picked up that evening.) After refuelling the light-alls, the patrol then drove to Rendlesham Forest, passing the Woodbridge base by the east gate and taking the next turning left into the logging road.

Brenda Butler, who is familiar with the area, has pointed out that Larry's directions to the landing site are incorrect. But having taken the route myself I can see where the confusion arises. If one were to leave the Woodbridge base, taking the road from the east gate (see map) to the area in question, then one would turn right not left. But Larry's patrol went directly from Bentwaters (Adrian Bustinza has confirmed the patrols took this route) and did not use the short cut through the Woodbridge base. By using the normal route they would have passed the east-gate entrance to the Woodbridge base on their right, they then took the next turning immediately on their left. Therefore Larry's directions are correct when he says, 'We turned left at east gate.'

Larry recalls being at the site with Bustinza when the big UFO landed (Bustinza insists he was not there when the landing took place but arrived soon afterwards. He also refers to an entirely different landing site than Larry) and describes the landing as a red ball of light exploding in a blinding flash, with shards of light and particles falling on to a yellow fog. Larry remembers going numb during the encounter, as if in a state of shock. Right in front of him appeared a huge machine, which at first seemed to be triangular in shape but was constantly distorting. It reminded him of a huge soluble aspirin (Bustinza also mentions that it looked like a soluble aspirin).

The object was covered in weird pipes and what looked like little boxes and there was a bank of cobalt blue lights at its base and a glowing reddish light at the top. Larry was of the opinion that it was old and yet advanced at the same time. Numerous personnel were busy surrounding it on all sides, making a broken circle around it. He was now about twenty-five feet in front of the object and could see landing gear that appeared to be three legs protruding from its main body. At this stage Larry was feeling a sense of nausea and the hairs on his neck and body were standing on end. An officer instructed him and another airman to move closer to the object whilst a disaster preparedness officer led the way with a Geiger counter. Larry could see their shadows on its surface, which appeared to be unusually distorted. It was at this moment he claims to have seen three aeronaut entities communicating telepathically with Wing Commander Gordon Williams.

The entities, floating in bluish gold balls of light, seemed disturbed by a noise that sounded like a loud bang. Larry and the others backed away from the object as they heard an officer calling to some men who tried to run off over the fence. The commotion appeared to disturb the entities and, as if in fear, they floated back towards the object before moving forward again and continuing their silent communication with the commander. Larry claims that people were filming the UFO and taking photographs during the entire event.

One of the major problems with Larry's story is that he is the only witness to go public claiming Wing Commander Gordon Williams was involved in the incident.

In Left at East Gate he refers to the CNN documentary, stating that although the faces of the witnesses were blacked out he recognized Captain Mike Verrano, and claims Verrano had verified that Wing Commander Williams had taken a film canister of the incident to a waiting aircraft. Former Senior Master Sergeant Ray Gulyas, who worked alongside Captain Verrano in 1980, pointed out that it was Verrano who had taken the film to the aircraft, not Williams. He was sure that Williams was never mentioned in any of the briefings by Bobby Ball (also a witness), only Halt, and he did not doubt Ball's word. In the same context Larry implied that Gulyas had said he had seen flying objects containing maybe people or different life forms. Gulyas positively denies he saw anything of the kind. 'I was not a witness to the incident and I never heard of there being any aliens or beings out there,' he told me. I asked Larry to comment on Gulyas's statement. He checked the original manuscript and suggested it was a publishing error — that it should have read Bobby Ball and not Ray Gulyas.

Nevertheless, Larry is still convinced that Wing Commander Gordon Williams was out in the forest communicating with the crew of an alien spaceship. But as I explained to him, I needed more evidence because there was no other witness who put Gordon Williams in the picture. It was then he suggested I speak to Lee Speigel. I had been trying to contact Speigel for several months, without success, and was pleased when Larry asked Peter Robbins to put me in touch with him, promising he would confirm that Williams was involved. Lee Speigel was a producer and talk show host who had caught up with Colonel Halt at his home in 1985. According to Larry, Halt had become defensive when Speigel asked him about Gordon Williams and the Colonel had asked him and his crew to step outside. It was then that Halt allegedly admitted that 'Williams and beings' were involved in the incident. This is what Speigel related to me:

Yes, I did interview Halt at home and he was candid, to a point, but was obviously not telling all the facts. Whether it had more to do with keeping quiet because of national security reasons or perhaps personal reasons, I don't know for sure. When I asked Halt whether or not it was true that Base Commander Williams [sic] had some sort of very close encounter with alien beings, with a possible communication, Halt didn't get defensive and didn't ask me to have my crew step outside . . . My camera crew never came into Halt's home, just myself and an NBC producer, no one else. So re. Williams, all that Halt said was that he couldn't comment on what happened, not denying it, not confirming it. You can read anything you want into that, but that's what he said, and I've never embellished it beyond that. Halt never told me that beings had been observed on the third night. He simply wouldn't or couldn't confirm it.

According to Peter Robbins, Speigel was interviewing Larry and him for a New York radio show and it was after the show that Williams' name cropped up. Peter remarked on the conversation:

... I am not certain whether we were still in the studio or already in the cafe when it came up, but I specifically remember Larry asking Lee, certainly at least in part for my benefit, about Halt telling him that Williams had been involved. And I distinctly remember Lee responding in the affirmative . . .

Clearly there is a disagreement here. It seems strange that Larry would insist I talk to Speigel if he was not certain he would back up his story. However, when I first asked Speigel about his interview with Halt, he gave me a detailed account but there was no mention of Williams. It was only when I asked about Williams' alleged involvement that he offered the aforementioned statement. Could Peter have been mistaken about Speigel's affirmative answer or is it possible that Speigel might have misunderstood the question in the heat of the moment, several years down the line?

Adrian Bustinza disagrees with Larry, and is in no doubt that Williams was not involved, although he does remember Halt mentioning Williams' name during the encounter. Bustinza has no memories of Larry being at the landing site either. He explained the difficulty of trying to follow what was going on at the time:

I don't recall seeing him [Larry] out there, but there was a lot of confusion going on. There was tunnel vision. After the incident Larry was very upset and paranoid, and I had to try to calm him down. He wanted to talk. I remember us walking down the dorm and he was saying, 'I wonder if they are watching us now, if they have cameras watching us.' He got me scared. Even back then he was determined to get the story out. Larry wanted to talk, he was talking to everyone.

Steve La Plume remembers Larry very well. They had first met in a bar in San Antonio, Texas, whilst they were both at the police academy. It was not until the middle of January 1981 that they would meet again. La Plume heard about the major event the morning after it occurred, when some of the witnesses from the night shift walked through the day room on their way to their quarters. At the time, he did not pay too much attention to the witnesses, who were carrying their gear bags over their shoulders and walking with their heads and eyes down as if trying to avoid eye contact with anyone. He recalled how the men in the day room jeered as they passed through. 'Hey, see any little green men? Did you get probed?' One of the men retaliated by shouting 'Fuck you guys! Shut the fuck up.' La Plume does not remember seeing Larry with the group, but a few weeks later Larry discussed the incident with him in his dormitory.

As confirmed by Bustinza, it seems Larry had been hunting out fellow witnesses and had heard about La Plume's January sighting and wanted someone to talk to who had had a similar experience. Because it was the first time they met since leaving Texas they did not immediately recognize each other.La Plume related only what Larry had told him on that first day because he felt that this was the purest form of his story - before any outside influence might have tainted it. Larry told him that something had occurred outside the perimeter fence at RAF Woodbridge.

He had been ordered to collect a light-all and fuel it at the gas station. He mentioned that they had trouble, both with filling the light-all with fuel as well as keeping their vehicle running. When Larry's patrol arrived at the forest, they were ordered to secure their weapons and leave them with another patrol. They then made their way to where they saw a craft. Larry also mentioned that at least one airman was taking photographs, probably with a personal camera, which was later confiscated. There was also a video-camera recording of the event which he believed was authorized because it was later flown to Germany. Larry explained that everyone was in a broken circle around the craft and a colonel was communicating with beings.

However, he was very straightforward about the fact that they were not talking, just communicating. Larry told La Plume that he also saw the beings, which he described as three feet tall and resembling kids in snowsuits. There were two of the beings outside the craft, and one inside, and they appeared to be floating around as if inspecting it. Larry said that when the craft took off it joined about five other objects that formed into one unit before disappearing. Steve La Plume's story seems to give credence to Larry's, which is also very similar to Steve Roberts' original story.

According to Larry, the morning after the incident, he and several other airmen were instructed to report to Major Zickler. The airmen were lined up and checked over with a Geiger counter, doubtless for radiation, and told they were going to be debriefed concerning what had occurred the night before. They were then ushered into Zickler's office and instructed to sign statements without having the opportunity to read them. Larry managed a quick glance through the statement and realized it was a watered-down version of the actual event. It mentioned only that what he had seen were some unusual lights in the trees.

The witnesses, having been seated in front of a movie screen, were again told by Major Zickler that they would be debriefed and to be sure to give their full cooperation. Zickler then departed and three men in civilian suits entered the room. One was introduced as an officer from Naval Intelligence and the other two men represented the Armed Forces Security Service. After the introductions the naval commander gave them a briefing about UFOs and how the government had been aware of them for a very long time. The airmen were told that numerous 'off-earth civilizations visited the planet from time to time, and that some had a permanent presence here.

They were then instructed not to discuss any aspects of the incident with anyone on the base and if pressed they should just mention they saw lights in the trees. The commander then gave them a pep talk on patriotism before showing them a film, which revolved around the military's encounters with UFOs. According to Larry, the footage consisted of segments from various eras, beginning with World War Two, the Korean War and Vietnam, followed by footage from the US space missions. He claims that it was during this meeting that the men were told their security clearance had been upgraded. Having received no further confirmation, written or otherwise, he was of the opinion that the latter was mentioned only as a ploy to deter the witnesses from discussing the incident.

During a conversation I had with Malcolm Zickler, he confirmed that such a meeting had taken place although he did not offer any details. If you have a problem believing that the USAF educate their personnel on UFO matters, let me relate a similar story that was told to me in early 1997. Bruce Taylor, a Vietnam veteran who resides in Seattle, USA, informed me that before going off to war he and other personnel were summoned to a classroom where they were taught what to do in case they came into close contact with a 'craft of unknown origin'. In the likelihood of an encounter, they were expected to back away whilst observing everything possible, and then report it to their immediate supervisor.

Taylor was also shown footage of UFOs in Korea and Vietnam, probably the exact same film that Larry and the other witnesses were shown. Taylor explained how the Air Force deals with this particular subject. 'What was hard for me was that on one hand they were telling me UFOs don't exist, but on the other hand they were telling me what to do if I see one.' I asked him if he had been given any information on extraterrestrials and what they might look like. 'No, they didn't tell me what they might look like because that might be too easy,' he said. He added, 'I believe there are a couple of different races that fly these craft and I don't think it would be easy for the governments of the world to tell people what they look like if they are telling everyone that they don't exist.'

A remarkable part of Larry's story is his recollection of the events whilst under hypnotic regression. The session, which was carried out by ufologist and abduction researcher Budd Hopkins on 15 July 1995, has Larry being taken to an underground facility by two strange men in black civilian suits. This occurred in the early evening following the morning meeting in Zickler’s office, and one has to wonder if certain individuals were singled out. Larry was relaxing in his dorm when he was called on the telephone and told to report to the parking lot within twenty minutes. He was very concerned because earlier that day he had called his mother from the base telephone box and was in the middle of telling her about the UFO when he was cut off in mid-sentence. As he made his way towards the vehicle he was very nervous about what was ahead.

During the hypnotic session with Budd Hopkins, who is well known for his work with people who claim to have been abducted by aliens, Larry tried to describe what happened in the parking lot. As he walked towards the vehicle, which he thought was a 1980 Cadillac with New York number plates, he noticed Adrian Bustinza leaving his building and heading in the same direction. There were two men waiting for them, and as Larry tried to climb into the back of the vehicle he was sprayed in the face from something that looked like a deodorant can. He complained that his nose, eyes and mouth were stinging and he was very scared because he could not open his eyes and had trouble breathing.

As the car stopped Larry was pulled out and laid on an icy patch of ground near the Bentwaters flightline. He was then taken through a door and experienced the rapid descent of going down in an elevator. But he was not sure if the elevator was real because suddenly everything became a void. The next moment Larry was in a clinical-type room, sitting upright in a chair having his eyes washed by a man in a white coat, whom he assumed was a military doctor. The room adjoined an office area, but it was not the Bentwaters clinic he recognized. He was then approached by a colonel who ushered him into another room where Adrian Bustinza and six other airmen were seated. At this point Larry was clearly having problems and was very
frightened and, according to Budd Hopkins, brought himself abruptly out of the hypnosis. It is certainly an unusual story, but it is the remainder of Larry's underground experience that causes the most concern, the conscious memory without hypnosis.

According to Larry, he was still heavily sedated when he was confronted by two men in black SWAT-type uniforms who led him through a narrow corridor where he passed rooms full of computers and high-tech machines. He recalls the operators were dressed in orange and black uniforms. They then went through a pressurized door and an alarm triggered as the seal was broken. The door slid back into a white tiled wall and revealed a large dimly lit rectangular room which led into a smaller area with full-length windows. Larry stepped into the small space and could see a black liquid floor below, which housed a UFO similar to the one he had seen in Rendlesham Forest.

Exiting from the confined space, he was ushered through a large door which led down a long corridor and into another room full of rows of seating. Larry was instructed to be seated, and as he did so he spotted Adrian Bustinza off to his right. Directly ahead was a large translucent screen and as he stared at it he realized he could not move his head. Suddenly he sensed there was a small figure behind it and he realized he was having a telepathic exchange with an alien entity. The voice began discussing Larry's life and, as if waiting for confirmation, it would constantly ask if he could remember. Larry then heard the being say that it was from another place, another reality. He was told that the underground facility under Bentwaters was very deep and had been there since the 1940s. With the aid of human support it had been expanded in the 1960s enabling the beings to travel in their crafts through an extensive tunnel system that exited into the North Sea.

An amazing story but what can we make of it? Those interested in this case have had difficulty accepting Larry's claims of alien beings living underground in rural Suffolk. Most people have simply dismissed it, claiming it is just too weird. Even with a vivid imagination, I find it strange that anyone would want to make up such a bizarre story, especially if they want to come across as credible. One thing that had crossed my mind was that if Larry had seen a UFO underground, could this have been a stealth F-117 aircraft that had been secretly deployed at Bentwaters? The design would most certainly have looked alien to someone who did not know of their existence, and if Larry was drugged it would be even more confusing. According to my source they had been housed in hangars at the far end of the flightline. It is a possibility that the hangars had some sort of lift that would transport the aircraft to a basement area.
Steve La Plume confirms part of Larry's abduction story:

He also told me he was taken in a black car, that when the car pulled up close a window rolled down, and when he stuck his head in to talk to the occupants he blacked out. I do know for a fact that he said he was debriefed and told to keep quiet because 'bullets are cheap'. He also said he went under the base and there was a parking facility or something like that. He stated that the North Sea was close and they entered the underground base via the North Sea in an underground tunnel or something to that effect. I didn't see him for a few days after this [relating to when Larry spoke to him in mid-January], and when I did he was upset, because we were supposed to go drinking but he never showed up.

A few weeks after the statement from Steve La Plume, I told him about Left at East Gate. He reviewed the book and submitted another statement for my perusal.

Larry never told me that it was Williams who was out there. I only remember him saying that a colonel was present. It was only after we got back to the US [a few years later] and talked about it more that I remember him saying it was actually Williams. He did tell me he was abducted about the same manner that he states in his book. He also mentioned the underground complex under the photo lab. He said the car was big and dark in colour, but never mentioned that there was anyone else with him. I was told this while we were on Bentwaters.


Considering he had had such a dramatic time in the Air Force, I find it strange that Larry decided he wanted to re-enlist so soon after his separation from the service. But in 1981, following several failed attempts, he consulted Congressman Gerald B. Solomon and some months later he received a copy of a letter written by Lieutenant Colonel Thomas M. Alison, addressed to the Honourable Gerald B. Solomon. It turned out that five months after his discharge, the Office of the Surgeon General, USAF, had permanently disqualified him by reason that he could not fully extend his right arm. Larry has always claimed that he did not receive a medical discharge from the USAF even though the Air Force wrote to Solomon and explained the details of his disablement. Steve La Plume comments:

I remember Larry being assigned to the supply hut, and I distinctly remember that he was getting out of the Air Force due to his wrist, which he showed me would not move correctly. He explained that he was getting out for medical reasons - or breach of contract because they should not have assigned him the job of security to begin with, and should have caught his disability during his physical.

Larry supplied me with a copy of the letter of approval for his separation from the Air Force, which was stamped with Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams' signature. There is no obvious mention of a medical problem (unless it is coded), the separation was agreed on ('Nonfulfillment of Guaranteed Training Enlistee Program Agreement').

It seems as if Larry had a number of concerns whilst at Bentwaters and was under the impression that the AFOSI (known to servicemen as the OSI) were out to get him. Steve La Plume had warned Larry that they were watching him because he had put his name forward with several others for allegedly using drugs. La Plume recalls the incident.

I was bagged for doing drugs in Amsterdam. They, OSI, could prove it, and guilt on my part knew they could. I was told that if I cooperate they would not hold up my release from the service. I was already snapped at this time and had already had my sighting. I wanted nothing more than get the fuck out of Bentwaters and the USAF. I was in trouble with my drinking and was just a mind full of mush at this point in my life. I am making no excuses. I was weak and they preyed on that. However, I was the one who suggested they might want to take a look at Larry because I knew he had gone to Amsterdam recently or was about to. I was spouting off every name I could to get me out of this mess and get back home. So it was not like they were out to get him. Not from where I was sitting. Perhaps they picked on me hoping I would give them some dirt on Larry . . .

[zardos]

There were several rumours about Larry being thrown out of the Air Force for being a drug user, and I asked him outright if this was the case, but he absolutely denied it. Edward Cabansag remembers seeing Larry in the supply hut and was told by a fellow airman that Airman Warren was waiting for his release, which was a result of his involvement with drugs. Larry reminded me that he had an honourable discharge from the Air Force (I have a copy of this document) and was never associated with drugs. He believes these rumours were started to discredit him as a witness because the Air Force knew he was talking about the incident. Other personnel told me that sometime during 1980 a huge drugs bust was carried out on the Bentwaters installation. Those involved were members of the Security and Law Enforcement Squadrons and they were immediately sent back to the United States. In fact most of the new recruits at Bentwaters in December 1980 were said to have been replacements for those who were transferred. If Larry had been busted for drugs he would probably have received the same treatment and may even have been discharged. Besides, I have in my possession a copy of a document with the stamp of Wing Commander Gordon E. Williams' signature, which proves that Larry himself requested separation from the Air Force and not the other way around.

Not only did Larry's attempts to re-enlist fail, but when he applied for his passport to be renewed in 1994 he received a letter stating his request had been denied due to the passport being altered or mutilated. He was told he would have to appear before a passport agent or designated court employee with acceptable proof of his US citizenship. He also had to submit a written statement explaining the reason for the condition of the altered/mutilated passport. Larry called the State Department Consular Center in New Hampshire and was told the letter had been sent to him at the behest of the Department of Defense. The reason given for the refusal was that he had been discussing sensitive defence issues on foreign soil. Further attempts to obtain a passport were blocked and Larry discovered that all files relating to him had disappeared from the State Department's computers. He simply did not exist!

On 17 October 1994 Peter Robbins wrote to former Attorney General Ramsey Clark, explaining Larry's passport predicament and asking for his assistance in the matter. Apparently Ramsey, who had represented New York police officer Frank Serpico, offered his advice, but things did not go as well as expected and in the spring of 1995 Larry was again refused a passport. According to both Peter and Larry, Ramsey stepped in and suggested they mention his (Ramsey's) name, and one month later Larry received his new passport.

One can see why Larry Warren's story is by far the most con¬troversial. However, Dot Street and Brenda Butler had to admit that, in 1983, he had certain information about the case that was not public knowledge. But had he picked it up from others on the base, or was he actually a witness? Unfortunately alterations in times and dates have occurred throughout the years. He originally claimed there were two hundred witnesses at the site, then changed it to one hundred and more recently it became forty. However odd this may seem, we must never forget what a trauma it was, and Larry is not the only one who has made errors or has changed his story.

Nevertheless, his errors are more prominent because his story has changed more often, and this might be where the real problem lies. For instance, in 1983 he told Dot Street that following the incident he had found himself on his bed, fully clothed and covered in mud, with no idea of how he had got there. This story changed until it became obsolete when in 1997 he described walking back to the truck and returning to the base.

When The News of the World newspaper interviewed Larry for the 2 October 1983 issue he did not claim to have seen any aliens, but a month later (6 November) he gave the newspaper a different story. Still using the pseudonym Art Wallace, he had since undergone hypnotic regression and was able to offer a full description of the aliens. According to the newspaper article, during his session with two unnamed hypnotists, he discovered he had witnessed General Gordon Williams communicating with the entities. We must consider that until Williams was featured on the front page of The News of the World a month earlier, Larry had never mentioned his name, but now he had linked him with the incident. According to Skycrash, Fred Max was a behavioural psychologist who had conducted the hypnotic session that apparently helped Larry to recall the names of other witnesses and much more detail of the events. However, this session still sees Larry having blacked out and waking up in his barracks, which is strange considering he has since claimed this did not happen.

I found it equally strange that there was no reference to this session, or indeed Fred Max, in Left at East Gate, especially as Larry has since trashed the newspaper article. Surely this was important because it would apply to his involvement in the actual incident and would help to quell the accusations that he was not involved. I decided to contact Peter Robbins in New York, who explained that the reason the session with Fred Max was not featured in their book was due to a decision made by Larry. When I pushed Peter for more information, it turned out that for whatever reason Larry was not put under hypnosis but had gone through the motions.

I already knew there were problems with Larry's testimony. Several months earlier I had heard what sounded like a full confession that he had not been involved in the underground incident after all. It was discovered on an old audio cassette tape with a faded name scrawled on it, the name Art Wallace, his pseudonym. The tape revealed details of conversations between Larry and Dot Street.

Dot had paid me a visit and had brought along several audio tapes, and after listening to them most of the day I was just about to finish up when, towards the end of the tape, Larry's voice became very anxious. Unfortunately, the tape ran out so I only heard the first part of his statement, but it was enough to confuse matters even more. He confessed to Dot that the hypnotic session in 1983 had not been genuine because unbeknown to the hypnotist he had not been fully hypnotized. His excuse was that he had gone along with the pretence because someone had paid for the session and they had said words to the effect that, 'it better be good'.

In the conversations with Dot, Larry then went on to explain that he had asked Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood to find Adrian Bustinza in order to back up his story. 'I said, get a hold of Bustinza, he'll tell you what happened, I just told them their names and where they came from . . . Once they get a hold of Bustinza, I'll come out. Larry [Fawcett] called me and said, "We finally got a hold of Adrian Bustinza . . ."' However, it seems Bustinza had clammed up and would not discuss the underground facility, or that they were interrogated, and Larry felt let down. The following is taken from my notes of the recording and it is obvious that Larry was confused:

It's real, Larry's [Fawcett] lost interest with the case. You know this underground stuff; Larry to this day does not believe me. I told Barry [Greenwood] and Larry Fawcett that it didn't happen to me. I'm telling you it did not happen. When I first came out with that, well, I said it did ... It was March '81. What can we do about it? Bustinza and a few others, we went down to this place. This underground garbage, I've erased that stuff for ever. I didn't even see those space things. I told Larry, the thing is, March '811 got together with some people. We were all involved, rehashing the whole thing, Bustinza said we were taken down to this . . . Bustinza wouldn't give him [Fawcett] specific details of the underground. If I said I heard it second-hand no one would believe it. Bustinza said we were taken down to an underground base ... I did some checking, it seemed there was some fact to him. I'd hoped that Busty would tell him what we went through. Busty denied the underground. I had to play devil's advocate.

OK, I did this. I have an ace in the hole, if I get screwed around by this, it would make . . . [tape cut off]

Just before this bizarre conversation with Dot Street, Larry claimed he had received a telephone threat from an anonymous source. Dot had already spoken to Larry's mother, who seemed clearly concerned for the safety of her son. I listened to part of that recording and heard Mrs Warren tell Dot that Larry could no longer talk to anyone, that he had to stop all talking. Apparently, Larry had received a brief call from someone warning him 'It's OK for people talking about this, but you've gone too far. You've ruined families. If you keep this up we'll be in touch.' Larry believed the threat was as a result of Larry Fawcett's call to Major Malcolm Zickler's residence. The Major was not at home when Fawcett called but he managed to talk to Mrs Zickler at great length, which might have upset her husband. Whoever called Larry might not have approved of him giving out Air Force personnel details. Could the threatening call have prompted him to deny his involvement in the underground affair? I asked Larry to explain why he went off at a tangent, telling Dot Street that the underground story was a non-event. 'I had just gone public with my name, thinking other guys would start talking,' he said, 'but when Adrian denied being in the underground I decided I wasn't going to talk about it anymore. I just wanted to forget it so I denied I had been there.' A few days after the conversation with Dot, Larry was flown to Japan to appear on a television show.

But the biggest surprise was yet to come. More than fifteen years ago Larry had told Dot Street that he had an ace in the hole, but what was that ace? I was about to close this chapter on Larry Warren — and believe me it was the most difficult one to write - when he called with important news he wanted to share with me. It was news I desperately wanted to hear, but it did not come cheap; in fact, it cost me many a weary night rewriting the details time and time again as Larry recounted a different set of events with each conversation. At one point I even considered eliminating the story altogether, but then I knew it had to be told, but only in its entirety.

Early in 1999 I had called and left a message for Larry, who had been visiting Liverpool, where he was staying with Sue McAllister. There were some final details I wanted to check with him; however, I was not prepared for what I was about to hear. He told me that a few months earlier he had been sent some photographs of the actual UFO encountered by Jim Penniston and John Burroughs, which were taken during the initial incident on 25/26 December. I had heard rumours that someone had managed to take pictures and smuggle them out but had never been able to find any evidence to support this story. According to Larry, someone had read the reviews of Left at East Gate on the Internet and had sent the photographs to him care of his publishers.

Included in the package were negatives, a Bentwaters photograph folder, a map with directions to the landing site and a letter from the witness. Larry would not reveal the contact's full name but gave his Christian name as Mark. The witness was an accountant living with his wife and family in the United States and although he was very nervous about the whole affair and did not want to be named, he had sent Larry the photographs in the hope that it would back up the case.

The witness had been a bystander who was off duty when he and another airman saw lights over the forest from the nearby village of Eyke. He and his friend became curious and drove back to Bentwaters to collect a camera before making their way to the forest. On passing some buildings by the roadside (Foley Cottages), they saw lights moving through the trees and decided to park the vehicle with the aim of investigating them. But Mark's friend was frightened and refused to follow him into the forest. As Mark moved closer to the lights he could see two figures and a triangular UFO sitting in a clearing. At one point he was only five feet away from the UFO, standing behind a tree taking pictures. The UFO then lifted up and began moving through the forest, dipping in and out of the trees. Mark thought the others had been abducted and decided to run for it. On returning to the base he put another film into his camera and shot pictures of the ground. This film was then turned over to his superiors, and he was told that it had come out 'fogged'. Three months later, when he thought it was safe to have the UFO film developed, he risked taking it to the Bentwaters supermarket. A few days later he collected the film, which included pictures of himself and some friends taken prior to the incident. For the rest of his tour, almost two years, he kept them safely hidden on the base, sometimes moving them to other locations when he became nervous. As soon as Mark returned to the United States he placed the negatives and pictures into a safe deposit box and there they remained until they were sent to Larry in late 1998. An incredible story!

Over the course of several weeks, I listened to Larry as he told me about the pictures and how Mark had kept them safe all those years. In an attempt to get the facts correct I would go over the details, only to find that the story changed during these conversations, which of course gave me cause for concern. Then Larry sent me one of the photographs. It was a glossy black picture with a group of coloured lights in the shape of a triangle and a few other coloured balls of light scattered throughout. I eventually had the photograph blown up and lightened and was amazed to find what appeared to be a distorted forest with a triangle of lights hovering over a clearing.

Beneath the lights was an azure mist and at ground level there appeared to be a strange yellow mist rising up a few feet off the ground. It certainly looked interesting and, as promised, I sent a blown-up copy back to Larry. I am aware that the photograph could easily be a hoax. However, until it had been enlarged several times and lightened there was nothing to see except blackness and a few lights, so that in itself is interesting. I asked Larry if it were possible that someone might be trying to set him up, but he was adamant that the source was genuine: not only did he know the identity of the witness, but they had exchanged correspondence and talked on the telephone. Besides, the photographs had come not only with the negatives but also with the Bentwaters supermarket folder, and of course there was the map that Mark had sketched, indicating details of the route to the landing site. If these photographs were of the Rendlesham UFO, they were a good piece of evidence, but unless I could talk to the witness, or have something constructive to back them up, I had to remain wary. Larry promised to send me a photocopy of the Bentwaters folder and a negative. Hopefully, if the negative proved to have coding, it would at least date the film.

Imagine my surprise then when a week later I received a call from Larry confessing that he was the person who had taken the photographs. I was dumbfounded. My first question was, without doubt, 'Why did you sit on them for nineteen years?' This was followed by a barrage of questions. I could not believe that he would not use them in his book or even in the early days when he was trying so desperately to prove his case. Peter Robbins was devastated but still had confidence in Larry, blaming it on the incident and the fact that he had been messed with. Meanwhile, Larry confessed to Peter that he had told me the story and given me permission to use the photograph. Obviously Peter felt betrayed, having been his co-author and helped research his story for almost a decade. I felt for Peter, I had only worked with Larry on a chapter and knew how intense it was - there were surprises around every corner. The problem was the way Larry convincingly told the first story — all those details. I thought he deserved an award for an excellent performance.

Larry's new story was, of course, different. He and Mark had driven to Ipswich railway station and parked Mark's car in the car park. They were catching a train to London to meet two German girls, but first they visited a music shop that was situated near the station. I reminded Larry that it was Christmas Day and the shops were most likely closed during that period. He said Arabs owned the shop, but when I suggested that back in 1980 it might have still been the law to close on Christmas Day, he decided it was not open after all. He now explained that some men were delivering merchandise to the shop and he had stopped them to ask about prices. Mark, I was told, was an airman who had top-secret clearance, worked for the National Security Agency and was posted at RAF Martlesham Heath. On their way back to Bentwaters that night they picked up four other airmen, but how they all got into one old car I have no idea. As they approached the Bentwaters base they saw three strange lights in the sky formed into the shape of a triangle that seemed to be making a droning noise. Mark drove to the base, dropped off the other airmen, picked up a camera, and he and Larry headed for Rendlesham Forest. As they approached the cottages they heard Motorola radios and saw a white Law Enforcement vehicle parked on the roadside.

Having parked their car close by, they followed the noise of the radios into the forest where they found the UFO, which had three points to its base and looked like a Christmas tree. Apart from the reddish lights, everything was pitch black and as Larry took a photograph the UFO moved up off the ground and the radios became silent. Mark suddenly became very frightened and ran away, hiding on the ground in the forest. Larry saw some figures he could not recognize but thinks they were abducted because as soon as he began taking photographs the men disappeared. On leaving the forest, Larry spotted John Burroughs who was standing beside a truck. Of course, at that stage he did not know who Burroughs was. Mark then fired off a blank roll of film (both films were Cannon 35 mm) and Larry took the canisters back to his dorm for safekeeping.

Larry put the canisters on his windowsill but his roommate was uncomfortable with the situation and told him he should report it. He decided to take only the blank film to his superior, Senior Master Sergeant Lee Swain, who then referred Larry to Major Drury. However, Larry thinks Drury was unaware of what was going on. Later that day he heard that someone called Burroughs had seen a UFO and, realizing there might be a search, he wrapped the canister inside a sock, which he placed in a small canvas bag and took to Steve La Plume. Without explaining what it was, he asked La Plume to look after it in case someone searched his room. But La Plume declined, so he went back to his dorm and hid the canister inside his mattress.

Larry smuggled the pictures out of Bentwaters by placing them in the bottom of a Wedgwood German beer mug, which he had bought on a recent trip to Germany. He posted the parcel to his mother, who knew nothing about the photographs until he returned home a few months later. Once back in the United States he placed the photographs and negatives in his sister's safe deposit box. 'I was very frightened of having the pictures,' he told me. But then he said he had thought of taking them to the newspapers. Larry suggested I contact Steve La Plume, because although he may not be aware of what was inside the sock, he might remember him asking to look after it. But La Plume does not recall the incident and according to his earlier testimony he and Larry never talked until the middle of January 1981. Larry also told me that Adrian Bustinza knew about the photographs, but when I questioned him he denied any knowledge of them.

A year earlier I had discussed Larry's alleged trip to Germany with Peter Robbins. According to Left at East Gate, Larry had just arrived back from Germany the day before his encounter in Rendlesham Forest. Peter assured me that was what his co-author had told him, but I was not convinced. If Larry was in Germany, I thought he could not have been a witness because by his own admission and his records he was on D Flight, which meant he should have been on duty during 26/27-28/29. Therefore, if he had been involved in the second landing, he would have already been on duty the day before. However, since then I had discovered that some of the flights were mixed up due to the Christmas holidays. With this in mind, I realized Larry could have been on a different shift that week, but for no reason in particular I had failed to mention my new findings to Larry or Peter.

Just when I thought I had heard everything, Larry had another surprise in store for me. He was now confessing that he had never been in Germany during the Christmas holidays but had used the trip to cover up the fact that he had been involved in the initial incident. He claimed that if researchers thought he was out of the country then they would not connect him with it. I was obviously trying to figure out how anyone could connect him with the photographs or his alleged involvement when nobody had known anything about it anyway. This statement was remarkable, considering he had diligently done everything he could to prove the incident had occurred and especially that he himself was involved. Suddenly, I was expected to believe that he was trying to cover up his involvement in an earlier encounter. I could have gone on for weeks with my questioning but I felt there was no point. I was burnt out with this latest saga and had already spent far too much time on the Larry Warren story.

However, I did ask Larry if he would send me some evidence to back up his claims. I suggested he send me one of the negatives, a photocopy of the strip of negatives, showing the code numbers, a copy of the Bentwaters folder and a letter admitting he had taken the photographs and had copyright to them. These items were promised to me but Larry claimed he might not be able to locate the folder and instead of the ten photographs he originally had there were now only five. In a previous conversation, when we were discussing the mystery witness, he had told me that some of the photographs had been taken before the incident and featured Mark and his friends. Understandably, I was very sceptical about all of this, and until such time as Larry could prove he took the photographs I would remain so. Unfortunately, albeit innocently, Peter related my concern and disbelief to Larry, who then thought it was not worth pursuing the matter with me. I admit I discussed the situation with Peter because we were both totally confused. I believe we were both looking for some positive answers but Larry seemed to be even more confused than we were.
John Burroughs, who was a witness to two events, offered his opinion of Larry's story to science writer Antonio Huneeus in an interview in 1990:

Larry Warren has hurt this case quite a bit. The only thing I can say about Larry Warren's testimony, that aliens came out, his excuse was that CNN did a botched-up job and he never described those little men like they were and stuff like that. There was something out there that was intelligent, that (hurt the eyes especially) when there was the blue transparent-type lights that were coming out, and the different things that they were capable of doing. That is my stand on that. Now Larry Warren took it a step further and, as far as I am concerned, there was no contact between, he called him the base commander, Lieutenant Colonel Williams at the time, and I did not see him out there. I know for a fact that Colonel Halt was out there and there is a small possibility, if I remember, I did see for a brief moment possibly the new base commander, which would have been Colonel Conrad at the time. But there was nothing that I am aware [of] or through talking to other people that would describe what Larry Warren described to CNN, other than there were blue transparent lights that could be possibly - they did act intelligently, some of the stuff they did . . . There was something else that came off the main craft that was able to do different things and flew over the top of us and flew through a pick-up truck and did stuff like that.

Larry always told researchers he had an ace in the hole to play, and he has since told me that the photographs are that ace. But are they? Could it be that he was not involved in the Rendlesham Forest incident after all? Throughout my investigation I have found no witness to back up Larry's story. Whether he was involved in one of the encounters, either standing next to the object or further back in the forest, is open to debate. Did Larry take the photographs of the first encounter or was someone trying to set him up? If a witness really did send the photographs to Larry then it is a real pity, because the story has now become so distorted that unless the witness comes forward there is no way of knowing the truth.

Sue McAllister, who married Larry in Nevada in March 2000, told me in early 1999 that she believed he was genuine. 'He's one of the most courageous people I've ever met,' she told me. Sue recalls the first time she heard Larry talk at a UFO conference. 'The whole audience were mesmerized by him,' she said. 'He comes across as being genuine.' Sue is a member of a small Liverpool UFO group, and apparently Larry showed some of the photographs to them when he visited England. According to Sue, one of the members suggested they might be a set-up. Obviously, at that stage he had not told the group that he had taken the photographs.

Peter Robbins has seen one of them and when I asked him if he knew who was responsible for them it turned out that Larry had claimed witness Ed Cabansag had taken them. After almost twenty years of silence from Cabansag, Larry might have thought he would never have gone public. Was Larry doing this to protect the witness named Mark, did he really take the photographs himself or was he trying to paint himself back in the picture?

In 1999 Sue McAllister wrote me a letter pointing out that, among other things, Larry's medical records should be proof enough that he was involved. Larry has produced medical records for an eye problem that he suffered whilst at Bentwaters and another injury that surfaced a few years later. During 1983 he had complained of a burning sensation and bleeding through the skin on his neck and back. On one occasion in 1984 his former wife had rushed him to hospital thinking he had ruptured a blood vessel. According to Larry, the doctors detained him for four hours while they conducted several tests. Finally three doctors entered the room and the most senior of these asked Larry a number of questions. He wanted to know if Larry had ever been in Vietnam or worked around any nuclear devices. When Larry admitted he had worked at a nuclear base, he was told that it was their opinion that he had been exposed to an unshielded nuclear device. The doctor asked Larry if he could recall when this might have happened. Larry explained that he could but he doubted the doctor would believe it. Larry was then told that in normal conditions these effects should not show up for twenty years. Considering Larry did not have clearance to work in the weapons storage area, it is unlikely he was exposed to any of the nuclear devices deployed at Bentwaters. But then if he was standing facing the UFO, why would only his neck and back have been affected, and why was Adrian Bustinza, who was also standing facing the object, not affected?

Peter Robbins went to great pains to research the site where Larry claims the second landing had taken place. In 1990 samples of soil were analysed by Matthew Miniz of Springborn Laboratories Inc., Wareham, MA. Miniz concluded that it was a difficult task due to the time lapse and the conditions the samples had been stored under, but nevertheless his professional opinion was in favour of anomalies in the samples, although he expressed a need for further research. Although Larry is the only person to claim the UFO landed in the farmer's field, the analysis tends to show that something affected the soil on that particular site. However, local resident Gary Collins claims the UFO could not have landed in Capel Green, which he says was only a road, or the farmer's field, which was visible from his property. 'I would have been able to see it if that had been the case,' he told me. However, so would the occupants of the three properties that were directly facing the site, but they deny they witnessed anything unusual.

I met Larry Warren in 1997 when he visited my home with Peter Robbins during their promotional tour in England. I found him to be a charming well-mannered individual, albeit that I sensed there was hidden anxiety. Against all the odds, I had believed he was somehow involved in the incident along with numerous other witnesses. At no time did I favour his underground scenario with the alien being, but considered that he was possibly messed with. Always, I asked myself the same question. 'Why stay with it for so long and put up with all the criticism if it was not true?' Was Brenda Butler right, did Larry get the story from someone else? Certainly, he told Dot Street he had heard the underground story from Adrian Bustinza, and had apparently confirmed it with Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood. It was the only way to get the truth out, he had told Dot. If he explained that the story was second-hand it would not be believed, so he had to play the devil's advocate. This was the gist of what he told her in 1983. I know because Dot, my mother and I listened to those recordings when Dot visited me in March 1999. However, we all agreed it was probably because he had been threatened.

Adrian Bustinza would eventually admit to having been taken to an underground facility, but his story is different from Larry's. Was Larry tampered with, either by government agents who gave him several memories and trigger words, or by some alien force that we still know so little about? There is no doubt that he is very bitter and blames the USAF for what happened, but we must then question why he was so intent on re-enlisting so soon afterwards. It is not my intention to discredit Larry Warren; in fact I had hoped more than anything to prove his case was genuine. It is difficult to believe that Larry is intentionally lying, but could there also be some confusion there?

He has genuinely cooperated, leading me to sources he truly believed would back up his story even when they did not. And he has endured so many years of harassment from all sides and appears to have still managed, sometimes with great difficulty, to hang on to what he believes is right. I have discussed with both Larry and Peter the possibility that Larry could have unknowingly been used to spread confusion and disinformation. Let us also not forget that if he truly was involved in a close encounter of the third kind there are forces out there that would want to silence him. But Larry was not one to keep his mouth shut and, as we know, was already discussing the incident within hours of it happening — even threatening to go public. If Larry Warren could not be silenced he could be discredited. It is very possible that he is a victim of the Rendlesham Forest incident but, like Steve Roberts, Larry's story has become very confusing.

In March 2000 Larry Warren attended a UFO conference in Nevada where he impressed researchers with the story about the UFO photographs. Only this time he did not admit that he had taken them himself but claimed they came to him from a witness. It was a similar story to the one he had originally told me in early 1999. Larry's chopping and changing is so much in line with that of Steve Roberts that it actually bears thinking about. Here are two seemingly intelligent men who over the years have altered their testimony to such an extent that it has surely discredited the case, yet they appear to have played some role in the events. Roberts told his original story regarding the alien presence to Chris and Brenda, and Larry recounted an almost identical story to Steve La Plume a few weeks after the incident. Did something sinister really happen during those debriefings? Could it be that the witnesses were programmed with trigger words or sounds, which every now and again would result in them telling a different story in order to confuse the truth?

Larry says, 'Take me out of the story and you still have a case.' That is true, but I don't believe the Larry Warren story will ever go away. It will just change from time to time.

[Sacha Christie]

Hi Zardos,

Where did you get that from?

I haven't got the time to point out all the inaccurate points in that article but right from the off it's wrong. He never called himself Art Wallace... the paper (News of the world) used that pseudonym.

Read his book, read the pages on this site and read his exchanges with Linda Moulton Howe.... read anything by people who have based their theories on actual research of docs... not from re writing other peoples takes on it. there's a hell of a lot of disinformation out there hon and a lot of inaccuracies... You have to be discerning.

Another thing is... Lots of people have changed their stories. Especially Charles Halt.

There are some good documentaries too and If you can get it... Andrew Pikes book, The Rendlesham files is a scientific perspective based on witness testimonies. There's loads to this case.

Go back through posts here and read some of the conversations. There are lots of well educated and researched people on here who have raised some very good points, some explained, others not.

[zardos]

Hello it is from a ufo ebook called You can't tell the people. i didn't know that MR Halt has changed his story, where can I read about it _ on the forum ?

[SteveR]

Hello. I have been a long time lurker on this forum but having read the above I felt I had to post. That article in from Georgina Bruni's book "You Can't Tell the People" - in fact it's the whole chapter on Larry Warren.

The poster Sache Cristie claims they hasn't got time to point out all the inaccurate points then goes on to say Larry Warren never called himself Art Wallace and that it was the news of the world newspaper. The poster then goes on to tell us to "read his book" which I presume is Larry Warren's book? Here is an except from Warren's book:

"Over the next weeks, many people in the UFO field began to hear about the Bentwaters incident, the Halt document, and the witness who'd blown the whistle—me. I made an agreement with Fawcett and Greenwood to speak about the event if my real name were not used. Barry came up with the pseudonym "Art Wallace"; I hated the name, but wanted to protect my privacy and that of my family. I remembered quite clearly the debriefer's threat (that bullets were cheap. In reality, I knew hiding behind another name was useless. I knew that anyone who really wanted to find out who Art Wallace was—for whatever reason— would."

Sache Christie, please point out the other inaccurate points. You obviously haven't read Left at East Gate or You Can't Tell The People, for that matter. . .

[John Burroughs]

Steve
Thanks for pointing that out. I understand why Sacha is doing what she is doing! Larry has been worked over pretty hard over the years. That is why its important to find out what is factual and what is not! Jim Penniston has also had trouble with his memory so its very possible somthing was done to us.

[Sacha Christie]

Thank you John.

SteveR,I don't mean to be pedantic but as you quoted, Barry called him it.... and he was outed as Art Wallace in the paper.... Larry went along with it.. Should he have chosen his own pseudonym? Does it really matter? It's all inconsequential unless all you are planning to do is find fault rather than find facts or researching lots of different areas to find out if there are conditions that could create reported effects and from that deduce.. wow, thats an interesting bit of scince fact NOW that a 19 year old lad wouldn't have had the first clue about THEN. But no... too many nits to pick.

Yes, I've read left at east gate twice, i'm on my third time around now too.... I've read as much of the original docs and statements and have gone right into military strategies and USAF protocols for every possiblity and also test papers, scholarly articles, dissertations and even quantum physics and astronomy, causes of hallucinations and medical conditions... and more... when you look at the bigger picture and work your way down to the minutia you tend to get a better perspective than working from the minutia up. I consult experts, not conspiracy theorists.

My name is Sacha Christie not 'Poster' Sacha Christie, as if all I do is 'post'... shocking... I don't hide behind an alias steveR and I don't assume that no one knows what they are talking about from the offset and belittle them with my own sense of self importance demanding answers as if they are owed.

Larry is a thoroughly decent guy and he isn't a liar. I know him, we're friends. whether you believe him or not really has no bearing on anything at all... you're just another member of the lets rag Larry gang cos it's easy.. we can just keep bringing up all the old inaccurate fallacies or pointless points forever and ever and ever and everrrrrrr.... Brow beat him into an early grave without a single word of thanks for bringing the worlds attention to it.... It's crazy. Doers anyone actually want to find out what happened or just argue and chase tails on the same points? Who was called what, where and wore what and all the rest of it is just meaningless crap!!! Unless all you're setting out to do is discredit a person... Wow... what a skill... takes a lot of research to do that. Some of the things he describes as happening is actual science fact... No way could he have known any of that... Also... he's in the script!!! There! thats your proof!!! Everyone accounted for by Halt... Also.. Halt said it was ET.... so... erm, another validation.... Please take that with a truck full of burning 'fertilizer' (to be polite). ha..

And no I don't have time to go through all the inaccuracies. I have two blogs, a web site, a forum, a busy facebook page, 2 books on the go, two short films and a mission to explain the DoDs strategy to weaponize space which has taken me a ridiculous amount of time to research and consult people like Robert Salla, Ricky Butterfass, Andrew Basagio, PHD Qunatum physicists, rocket scientists.. you name it.. Even the guys from ufo hunters... and also I have four children, one of whom is not even two yet so it all keeps me a little bit busy... not to mention any of the other things I do. So... splitting arse hairs to no end because all hairs split must be split again and again... I really am not interested in a pointless battle of semantics, I've got better things to do.

[Robert8982007]

When you get in the public eye as all of the Rendlesham eyewitnesses are to varying degrees, there are always many who take pot shots at you. Some of those are people who are just negative people that for whatever internal reasons enjoy tearing others down; however, there are many others I am sure who genuinely want to get to the bottom of the issue and are playing devil's advocate trying to flush out the truth. For these reasons, I truly believe that all of the eyewitnesses just have to develop a thick skin, especially such a prominent eyewitness as is Larry.

Speaking for myself now, I can truly understand how Larry's story has evolved as it has. He was a young man who was new on the job and suddenly also an eyewitness to something very perplexing that quite a few others were involved in as well. As he became more involved and outspoken in the matter, there would be a natural tendency to protect yourself amidst the attacks coming from all sides and also a desire to get your story out in the most effective way. I can empathize with Larry if under these trying circumstances he used some novel tactics to make his message more effective (afterall, he was inexperienced in dealling with the media as were the other eyewitnesses) . I remember listening to the retired military officer (McGaha was his name as I recall) who rattled on about the lighthouse and other possibilities, and I thought to myself how ridiculous his statements really were in view of the eyewitness statements; however, I can see why Larry would react to those remarks with a renewed determination to get to the bottom of the true facts. As for McGaha, no serious onlooker was going to believe that the events the eyewitnesses observed were all caused by the blinks from a lighthouse or any of the other ridiculous claims he made. I said to myself as I listened to him speak that he was an obvious plant by the military which had shortly after the events took place apparently taken extraordinary measures to confuse the eyewitnesses.

I truly believe Larry's statement (in one of the documentaries he was in) gave the best answer he can give to those questioning the veracity of the eyewitnesses at Rendlesham. Larry said that if you totally removed his testimony from this matter, there would still be a Rendlesham story. So do not let personal mistakes and deficiencies (which all human beings have by the way) get in the way of finding out what really happened at Rendlesham. I am indebted to Larry for sticking to his guns over all these years in trying to get to the bottom of the true facts here. I am likewise indebted to John Burroughs and Colonel Halt and all of the others who have been brave enough to step forward. To all of you, hang in there for the duration----there is a truth here somewhere.

[Sacha Christie]

Good grief!!! Twice in one day.... another voice of reason.

Robert, it's very refreshing to read a post such as yours. Nice to 'meet' you

[John Burroughs]

Ok I'm going to come out and say it. Sacha Larry may have some details worth considering but his credibility and emotional state of mind is questionable at best. You cannot change your story that many times and not have people feel that way!!

[Sacha Christie]

Well you know John... You cannot predict how an event is going to affect a person. Every person being different... every person having different reactions to the same event.... Everyone I talk to can totally understand Larry's emotional state, why can't you? You don't take into account the fact that there were drugs used and minds messed with... Larry told his story as he remembered it.. now he states that some of the things he 'remembers' such as underground bases with aliens might have been placed there... even though Halt has said.. it was from elsewhere.. and now it was ET.... So ya know... find another whipping post. I am sick of the credibility argument.

I changed my account too.. I thought it happened in Oct 96 in fact it was feb 97.... Am I a liar? No... Does that mean I wasn't there?no... John... you said you saw blue lights that were some kind of intelligence that spoke to you, called you towards them... Thats pretty far out.... But you know what? I believe you.... Many don't.

Get on a different train on a different track.... He was there... he blew the whistle... whats the problem?

You know he's gone off the radar don't you? Can't blame him... He's not in the best of health and had had the spiky end of the pineapple the whole ride.

Carry on fault finding... waste of time but you know.. if that's all you want to do fine... Not difficult is it. In an earlier post on another thread maybe you actually said in agreement with me that lots of people had changed elements of their stories.. why don't you leave Larry alone for five mins and have a pop at them? I don't understand what you are hoping to gain from this constant picking apart of statements... You know what.. I'm so fed up of pointing this out....

No disrespect meant to you john... none at all.. It's just making me dizzy watching you chase your tail.

[Robert8982007]

Let me add one footnote here as to where I think we are in all this. I want some answers, and I believe we just might be on the threshold of finding just that, and I will tell you why in one minute.

First, as for John Burroughs, I understand exactly his frustration after 30 years of searching for answers, and it doesn't seem he is any closer than when he started. When he reads of story changes (and many of the witnesses have changed their stories), he gets frustrated because it diverts the search away from finding real answers and clouds those facts we thought we already had before us. I believe John wants to focus on finding some real answers, and I don't blame him--I'm right there with him.

Now, I've posted earlier in this string how I can easily understand how Larry under the circumstances he faced over time took protective measures to fend off attackers from all sides. I think I might have disguised who I really was (any of you ever used a pseudonym on the internet) and possibly tried to gain allies by buttering them up with things they wanted to hear, things that later might hurt my case but which I didn't think would be the case in the heat of the moment. But, Larry isn't perfect (who among us is????) and did the best he could I'm sure in struggling with the barrage of attackers and critics coming his way. I still admire his tenacity in trying to get the substance of what he knew out, and I hope he won't go off the radar for long because we need his testamony and his reactions to new facts as they come forward and present themselves.

NOW, HERE IS MY HOPE FOR THIS CASE. A movie is being considered at least. I know that Lt. Col. Halt is part of that process. If a movie can be funded and produced, then it is my hope that that process will bring forth a stream of witnesses who have not hitherfore spoken. Just read back over the Rendlesham story, and you will see a host of silent witnesses scattered about who could add significantly to what we know today. I would guess that most of the silent witnesses are either now in retirement or nearing that status in any event. With the funding that a movie would surely have, maybe some monetary inducements can be offered to our silent brethren which will induce them to come forward. The fact of retirement or forthcoming retirement has not stopped any of the witnesses who have spoken from coming forward (obviously no pensions have been sacrificed or we would probably have heard about it), so why would that be a barrier for those who to date have remained silent? So, if we can add more witnesses and can confirm and refine more of what we know to date, we may very well be able to put the pieces together and know with a great deal more certainty what the true facts are. So, hang in there and let's see what developes. The last thing we need is to have the witnesses who are silent to date to be intimidated from ever coming forward. Let's just all try to stay positive in this group and work together in trying to find the real answers and let the past be just that---the past.

[Sacha Christie]

As a to a two ufo event including craft landing I understand perfectly the frustration. Up until recently i didn't have a single person to validate my account, having lost contact with the three other witnesses. One of whom committed suicide two years ago. 13 years I've been on my own with it, seeing the doubtful and disbelieving looks on peoples faces, even my family and a few friends. I can hardly blame them but at the same time now that I've found them there's a part of me that wants to give them all the two fingered salute and scream I told you so in their faces. My father even told my partner when we first met that i needed looking after.. he said "Shes' mad you know... I mean MAD"... !!!!

Still the fact remains that if all we did was argue about who was where and said what, wouldn't produce any answers. It's pointless.

I have a a copy of the script for the film, I'd like to think it would be picked up and made into a film but the film industry is a great way of losing all perspective. "artistic license" is one issue... beefing things up a bit, making it more sensational (as if it needs it), script editing can change the original format so much the person rewriting it can claim it as their own work but the most likely scenario here is that the rights to the film will be bought and the film shelved. Never to see the light of day.

Look at the situation as it stands... A major military ufo event with plenty of witnesses, documents etc... The col has spoken out and said it was ET.. a script written and it's the 30th anniversary... You'd think a slightly bigger deal would be being made of this wouldn't you? No one wants to touch it with a barge pole. Phil mantle has decided 'not to bother' putting on the conference he was planning. Can't say I'm disappointed. A reunion is a reunion, excluding the key witness and whistle blower because he will have already had some 'exposure' at a fairly small conference in Blackpool and has previously ruffled feathers is just outrageous.

I hope the film does get made,but having worked in the industry i know it will be a different film to the one Gary envisaged. The other point I'd like to raise is that yes, it would be fantastic if more of the silent witnesses came forward but they will come under the same attack... They have had 30 years to construct a story, why now not then etc etc... It won't stop.. any accounts will be subject to the same treatment as Larry's and they too will be subject to the disdain and ridicule. All they have to do is look at how each witness has been treated to see what they'd have to contend with for speaking out. Personally I might be tempted to keep my mouth firmly shut. No ufo witness ever gets an easy ride.

[John Burroughs]

Sacha
Lets get somthing straight. The only thing that is making me dizzey is trying to figure out what is factual and what is not. I'm working on finding out the real answers to the incident and separating truth from fiction or what ever one chooses to call it. Who would want to get on stage with Larry if he can't control his temper. If someone were to ask a question about what he has stated and has changed over the years and he blows up that would be a disaster. I'm looking for the truth and I'm willing to ask tough question and answer tough question. As far as the blue lights go and them making contact that is what has come out under Hypnois. I'm going back and looking at what everybody has said not just one person and yes several people have changed there story and 3 of us have gone under Hypnois and some very strange things have come out. I'm sorry Larry is not feeling well and has gone under ground. He was one of the first one's to talk about the incident and force it out in the open but that does not give him amnesty from what he has said or how he has changed his story and it would be nice to find out what is fact and what is not. I would like to hear it from him not having you tell me what I can or cannot do and how I should be handling this matter. I was there you were not and I have al lot more insite into this than you do.....

[Sacha Christie]

Well while we're doing the ironing lets get another thing straight. If Larry lost his temper on stage and really is that volatile, how come he's done more public speaking events than anyone else involved over the past thirty years? I'll tell you why... because he isn't an over emotional freak who doesn't know how to conduct himself in public. He's actually a very entertaining and engaging speaker as it happens.

as far as this forum goes I don't think anyone has the right to take the moral ground as far as attitude problems are concerned. Why do you think everyone conducts their conversations on here in private? I shall answer that question too... Because anytime someone says anything publicly they are immediately subjected to pedantry and condescending comments from people with an over inflated sense of their own self importance and the original topic is no longer being discussed because a game of one upmanship and point scoring has commenced.

What makes me dizzy is the fact that the same points are being covered time and time again to no end because no one is talking to each other. There's no engagement, just responses. also because certain personalities don't seem to be able to pass over a post and have an overwhelming urge to spit vitriol into the exchange, again, the topic veers off course and tempers get frayed because no one can make a point and even if they manage to it is misunderstood or ignored... This leaves everyone in a state of utter frustration with no resolution.

Have you read Halts latest statement?

Here it is;

"I and my men did witness multiple UFOs. The objects that
we saw were not the beacon light projected from the
Orfordness lighthouse. That could never be the explanation
as at one point I could clearly see a UFO close to the
ground to the left of the farm house whilst at the same
time witnessing the beacon from the lighthouse on the
horizon to the right of the farmhouse.
Earlier my men and I had examined indentations on the
ground that were in a perfect triangular pattern. We also
found evidence in the form of broken branches and abrasions
on nearby trees that indicated that something heavy had
landed in the forest near to the base. We detected
background radiation that was significantly higher than
normal in the area where the indentations were found. We
also found traces of a latent heat source on some of the
trees near to the landing area.
I personally saw a single UFO silently divide into five
separate objects. A short time later an object approached
our position at high speed where it projected a beam of
light down at our feet for several seconds. A short time
later I saw a UFO shining a beam down into the Weapons
Storage Area on the RAF BENTWATERS base. This was confirmed
when I overheard on my personal radio the Tower Operator
say that the beams were being directed INTO the Weapons
Storage Area itself.
I wish to make this absolutely clear, I saw objects that
were real. These objects were structured aerial craft that
were clearly operating under intelligent control.
As for the whole event itself I believe there were only two
nights of genuine UFO activity near to the base and what
became known as the third night was nothing more than a
piece of fabrication, a disinformation exercise implemented
by the Security Services who 'implanted the idea of the
third night' scenario i.e. Capel Green, into the heads of a
number of my men using extreme methods of mind control. I
believe that this was done purposely to tarnish the
significance of those first two nights.
Finally, I believe that what occurred over those two nights
at Rendlesham Forest was of profound defence significance
to the people of Britain and the rest of the world.
COLONEL CHARLES HALT - 2009

I'm working my way through the script right now. It's based on Halts testimony of events and an alleged precise time line. I will be able to deduce from the content who was supposed to have said what to whom and where. I find it remarkable that he's been able to speak to everyone involved to get their statements to or remembered many many conversations for him to have this amount of detail and content. He certainly couldn't have been in the control tower whilst in the forest, so how does he know what was said and by whom? It will be an interesting chronology of events which i will compare with everyone elses events which I've plotted in the same way but obviously from statements, posts, books, original docs etc...

Did you see what he said John? Capal Green didn't happen.....

[John Burroughs]

Sacha
Halt was not in the tower he was listening to his Radio which had the radio transmission from the tower. He also had access to everybody statements. If you look at what Larry was talking about in the interview with Linda Howe he made it look like everthing happened in one night to include Col Halt comming out after what happened to Penniston and I. The 3rd night in question which was in between what happened to Jim Ed and I and the night Halt was out there was when Lt Tamplin went out into the woods on Friday night into Sat mourning. I found out about it because I went up to the desk Sat mourning and saw the report. I also have received a E-Mail from someone who remembers Ball and the Lt in the Woods. As far as Larry goes it has nothing to do with him speaking at a conferance but if he is on stage with one of us and someone were to ask one of us about his story. It does not add up just like several others don't also and that is what I am trying to put together!!

[IanR]

Sacha,

At the risk of exposing myself to the points-scoring pedants you refer to above, I’d like to note that I have just had a private exchange with John B about the sequence of events at Rendlesham and I’m strongly inclined to support his view that there were three nights of events, as he has described. In fact, I am now inclined to think that the famous “it’s back” interruption by Bruce Englund at the Woodbridge Christmas party took place on the second night, not the third as Halt has always described it. I think it's possible that Halt has run together the events of nights two and three in his memory. This is not too surprising given that he couldn’t even remember the dates correctly a mere two weeks afterwards (didn’t he keep a diary?).

It seems that Halt has “remembered” quite a lot of new stuff since he has been working on this film script. However, given what we know about Halt’s memory I wouldn’t take any of it too seriously.

Ian

PS: And, yes, I have emailed Halt to ask for his response.

[IanR]

Well, Halt has come straight back and stands by his original story re the sequence of events he has recounted:

>>
It was definitely the third night as John Burrows claims. I had not heard of anyone out the second night until some recent claims. I do remember someone commenting that Bonnie Tamplin lost her GAU-8 (M-16) about that time under strange circumstances. The reason we had the "Christmas Party" after Christmas was all the facilities were booked until the 27th. Besides it was more than a Christmas Party. It was to recognize the accomplishments during the year and present awards/thanks. That's why Conrad stayed at the party (to make presentations) and I went out.
<<

So the question remains as to how Bruce Englund was so familiar with the site and why no one drew Halt's attention to the flashing light until he had been out there for some time.

Ian

[Sacha Christie]

John... I know Halt wasn't in the control tower!!! I'm saying he didn't witness the conversations... and yes I am well aware of the fact that he had access to all the original statements!!!!!

Ian.... I'm of the opinion that it happened over three nights. Halt blatantly falsified his memo.. blending everything into one night which when you scrutinize the way the memo was written and look at the dates it collapses under it's own weight. He also states that he 'thinks' Steve La plume was involved in the Christmas event which is not true!!! I have spoken to steve about this.. he wasn't there at all over that particular weekend. Larry went to him and told him what had happened to them. I do not support Halts account in the slightest. In fact I'm concerned about his desire to be so forthcoming.

Saying the Capal Green event was a sophisticated (although he used the word extreme) mind control technique is outrageous!! And to say it was an attempt to tarnish the other nights is laughable. How the hell would that work... ????

I'm sure I'll have more to say about what he has said when I get through the script. I also plan to e mail him with my questions as soon as I have finished reading and note taking. there's certainly a lot of information in there that I've never seen or heard before. When I spoke to Linda Moulton Howe she said he'd dropped some bombshells and made some startling revelations....

[John Burroughs]

I have been waiting for somebody to connect the dots. From the beggining the very first rumor started in a pub that brought the 3 ladies into it was it was ailiens that landed in the forrest. Then you had Larry talking about the incident as ailiens made contact with Williams and repair a craft he also has it all happening in one night just like Halts memo. Sacha its a fact that what Larry was saying and I'm not bashing him and that is why I'm trying to find out how that story came about. Halt wanted it to look like it all happened in one night and the story was started as ailiens landing in the forrest. The person who started the story went on to a steller career making Chief and ending up working with the stealth program in New Mexico. He told me he was still friends with Zickler and please take a look at Zickler Bio. If someone could post it that would be great. Zickler was not that smart to go that far and that is according to several officers who worked for him. I also have been told from almost the beggining from someone who was working on Ball's flight someone started saying it was the Light House, stars and Planets that everybody saw. But they said the funney thing was that they had people posted on CSC and posted in the old WSA tower at Woodbridge for several days after that. Then there is Steve La Plume story about what happened in Mid January when the whole group came out after he called it in. The guy he was posted with was OSI why would OSI be out there watching to see if somthing came back. Halt has now stated that Steve incident happened.