The Object ..

General discussion about the Rendlesham forest incident

The Object ..

Postby Frank » Tue May 03, 2011 9:17 pm

.
If you discard Penniston’s later stories and stick to his original witness statement a consistent story emerges from the total collection of witness statements. See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=981&start=20#p9289

The funny thing is: If you also stick to Jim’s original drawing, a consistent picture of the object emerges, too.

1. The object had a triangular/conical shape.
2. It had a red light on top.
3. It had a horizontal arrangement of blue lights in the mid section.
4. The lights were perceived as flashing/blinking/strobing.
5. A blue/white glow was emanating from the bottom.

Penniston: The original drawing by Penniston shows a red light on top, a horizontal line of blue lights around the mid section and a blue glow emanating from the bottom. Though he draws a rectangular ‘core’ (the ‘mechanical’ part?), the object as-a-whole has a triangular/conical shape when seen from a distance.

Burroughs: The drawing by Burroughs also shows a red/orange light on top, a series of blue lights around the mid section and a (white) glow emanating from the bottom. The object as-a-whole is triangular/conical again.

Cabansag: In an interview with Georgina Bruni, Cabansag says: “I had, and still have, better than average vision. There was no fog, it was a clear night and I could see something moving which was silver in colour with lights.” “It was cone-shaped – egg-shaped, with lights running around its belt from left to right. They were blue, white and red lights, flashing, sometimes rapid, sometimes slow.”

Again a triangular/conical-shaped object showing red, blue and white lights (possibly with an egg-shaped top) with a horizontal row of lights running around its mid section.

Halt memo: “The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high. The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath.”

Here, too, the red light on top is mentioned, plus the triangular/conical shape and the (banks of) blue lights underneath.

Note the silver color mentioned by Cabansag. In Halt’s memo the object is described as ‘metallic in appearance’. Jim describes it as ‘off-white’ in Skycrash (long before his hypnotic regression). Could the ‘red and orange’ color of the conical ‘beam’ in John’s drawing just be a reflection of the bright red/orange light from a metallic/reflective surface?

The differences between the drawings and descriptions are not too big when you consider the fact that there was only a brief encounter in the dark with little time to remember what they saw. As Canansag put it in Bruni’s book: “It is difficult to describe. We were all trying to make sure what we’d seen”

Something like this emerges – looks familiar to anyone?

……………………….…………….….000
……………………………..….…..000000
……………………………..…..1110001111
…………………..……….1111111111111111
……………..……..…11111111111111111111
……………….……11000111110001111000111
…………….…..00011111000111110001111000
………......111111111111111111111111111111
…….....1111111111111111111111111111111111
………..00000000000000000000000000000000000
…..0000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Image
Image
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Re: The Object ..

Postby Ignis Fatuus » Fri May 06, 2011 3:24 pm

Fred Buran: Shortly after the initial report A1C Burroughs was joined by SSgt Jim Penniston and his rider, AMN Cabansag. SSgt Penniston also reported the strange lights.
I directed SSgt Coffey, the on duty Security Controlled to attempt to ascertain from SSgt Penniston whether or not the lights could be marker lights of some kind, to which SSgt Penniston said that he had never seen lights of this colour or nature in the area before. He described them as Red, blue, white and orange

Jim Penniston: A large yellow glowing light was emitting above the trees. In the centre of the lighted area directly in the centre ground level, there was red light blinking on and off 5 to 10 second intervals

Edward Cabansag: While we walked, each one of us would see the lights. Blue, red, white, and yellow. The beckon light turned out to be the yellow light.

John Burroughs: Also the woods lit up and you could hear the farm animals making a lot of noises, and there was a lot of movement in the woods

Edward Cabansag: We were about 100 meters from the edge of the forrest when I saw a quick movement, it look visible for a moment . It look like it spun XXgXX left a quarter of a turn, then it was gone.

Fred Buran: They appeared to get very close to the lights, and at one point SSgt Penniston stated that it was a definite mechanical object

Jim Penniston: Burroughs and I were approx. 15-20 meters apart and proceeding on a true east direction from logging road. The area in front of us was lighting up a 30 metre area. When we got within a 50 metre distance, the object was producing red and blue light. The blue light was steady and projecting under the object. It was up the area directly extending a metre or two out. At this point of positive identification I relayed to CSC, SSgt Coffey. A positing sighting of the object…1….Colour of lights and that it was definitely mechanical in nature. This is the closest point that I was near the object at any point.
Image
Halt: The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest. The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately 2-to-3 meters across the base and approximately 2 meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light.

Edward Cabansag: We figured the lights were coming from past the forrest, since nothing was visible when we past through the woody forrest. We would see a glowing near the beacon light, but as we got closer we found It to be a lit up farm house
Image

John Burroughs: Once we reached the farmer’s house we could see a beacon going around, so we went toward it.

Edward Cabansag: After we had passed throught the forrest, we thought it had to be an aircraft accident. So did CSC as well.

Fred Buran: Due to the colours they reported I alerted them to the fact that they may have been approaching a light aircraft crash scene.SSgt Penniston reported getting near the object and then all of a sudden said they had gone past it and were looking a a marker beacon that was in the same direction as the other lights. I asked him if he could have been mistaken, to which Penniston replied that had I seen the other lights I would know the difference. SSgt Penniston seemed somewhat agitated at this point.

Edward Cabansag: But we ran and walked a good 2 miles past out the vehicle, until we got to a vantage point where we could determine that what we were chasing was X only a beacon light off In the distance.

John Burroughs: We followed it for about 2 miles before we could see it was coming from a lighthouse.

:)
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Re: The Object ..

Postby Ignis Fatuus » Sat May 07, 2011 4:05 am

Image
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Re: The Object ..

Postby Frank » Sat May 07, 2011 8:32 am

.
The lights were visible from the East Gate, so if you're right this is what it should have looked like on December 26 ... :)

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Re: The Object ..

Postby IanR » Sat May 07, 2011 10:43 am

Hint: Just work on the basis that nothing came down in the forest. They only *thought* it had. Everything then falls into place...

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Observer » Sat May 07, 2011 5:31 pm

Some body said it was a few guys fooling about with Christmas tree lights run off a car battery in the woods as a prank.

Why not, it no more crazy than some other ideas.

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Frank » Sun May 08, 2011 7:20 am

IanR wrote:Hint: Just work on the basis that nothing came down in the forest. They only *thought* it had. Everything then falls into place...

Ian


I'd rather go where the facts lead me. And they lead me to a short encounter with something that is described/drawn by three witnesses. "A strange glowing object in the forest. (...) triangular in shape, (...). The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath. (...) As the patrolmen approached the object, it maneuvered through the trees and disappeared. (...) The next day, three depressions 1.5 inches deep and 7 inches in diameter were found where the object had been sighted on the ground."

Guess that's about all we'll ever know..
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Re: The Object ..

Postby John Burroughs » Sun May 08, 2011 9:30 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABkE5SbY ... e=youtu.be
~ Time is the most undefinable yet paradoxical of
things; the past is gone, the future is not come, and the present becomes the
past even while we attempt to define it, and, like the flash of lightning, at
once exists and expires. ~
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Re: The Object ..

Postby IanR » Sun May 08, 2011 2:37 pm

Observer wrote:Some body said it was a few guys fooling about with Christmas tree lights run off a car battery in the woods as a prank.

But you still have to explain the coincidence with the 3 am fireball.

Go where the facts lead, as Frank says, and you have the following sequence:

1. They see the 3 am fireball and think something has come down (although it hasn’t).

2. They go out to look.

3. They see unexplained lights between the trees.

4. They move towards them until they realize they have been chasing the lighthouse (although one of them, already working on deniability, doesn’t mention this in his report, and he doesn’t sign or date it either).

5. They spend the next 30 years denying that 3 and 4 are linked.

This is mostly for the benefit of the newbies who haven’t been round this particular loop before.

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Observer » Sun May 08, 2011 4:11 pm

Ian

I fully concur with your lights/fire ball theory, but I think there was more to this incident than just that. Some thing else ocurred that may or may not be associated with the lights. We may also be looking at 3 seperate incidents on the 3 consecutive nights that are NOT related. We have our 3 main witnesses saying it was a solid object that moved around as if it was under some sort of intellegent control [Halt] but on the other side of the coin is your explanation it was just lights and a fire ball seen. Excuse me for being prosumtuous, but that is one theory calling the other theory a liar. Which way round you want to put it is up to you. Its no good skirting round this. So we have two theories, both poles apart and one is loaded with make believe and the other is pretty much what happened. Both theories have some supporting evidence but they both peter out before they can be substantive. One theory is based on known established science and the other is UFO world science. Make your minds up.
To sum up, I believe your light theory, but you must also concede there is a possibility that some thing else happened.

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Re: The Object ..

Postby IanR » Sun May 08, 2011 4:29 pm

Observer wrote:I believe your light theory, but you must also concede there is a possibility that some thing else happened.

I was referring only to Night One in the above sequence of events.

On nights Two and Three (the third being Halt's night) people went out into the forest and saw lights in the same direction as on the first night even though nothing was seen coming down into the forest on those nights. Hence we can conclude that what they were seeing was a permanent object which happened to lie in the line of sight to the East.

There is of course just such a permanent object that fits the bill, and the witnesses on Night One saw it as well.

The "starlike objects" Halt reported hovering and twinkling until dawn to the north and south are – well, you know...

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Frank » Sun May 08, 2011 5:52 pm

IanR wrote:Go where the facts lead, as Frank says, and you have the following sequence:

1. They see the 3 am fireball and think something has come down (although it hasn’t).

2. They go out to look.

3. They see unexplained lights between the trees.

4. They move towards them until they realize they have been chasing the lighthouse (although one of them, already working on deniability, doesn’t mention this in his report, and he doesn’t sign or date it either).

5. They spend the next 30 years denying that 3 and 4 are linked.


Ian, you're missing the fact that the lights in the woods were visible for a long period from the East Gate before the men went out to investigate. According to Buran's statement they were described as red, blue, white and orange by Penniston, when Penniston was watching them from the East Gate upon his arrival there. So the tiny lighthouse light and a short-lived fireball can not be the full explanation.

(@John: I'm not buying it : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=928#p9039
A spelling error like COODINATE means missing 8 bits in a row in an otherwise perfect sequence - hardly a coincidence, probably someone who regularly misspells words ..
But time did play a major role in Jim's story. Over the years it has turned into a science fiction story that is completely at odds with the rest of the evidence and even with your own recollections.)
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Re: The Object ..

Postby IanR » Sun May 08, 2011 7:43 pm

No need to take my word for it. Inspector Mike Topliss of Suffolk police told Georgina back in 1999: “The immediate area was swept by powerful light beams from a landing beacon at RAF Bentwaters and the Orfordness lighthouse. I know from personal experience that at night, in certain weather and cloud conditions, these beams were very pronounced and certainly caused strange visual effects.”
As I pointed out here only the other day, the Suffolk police file makes it clear exactly what they thought of the whole episode, and I see no reason to disagree with them.
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/police.htm

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Frank » Mon May 09, 2011 10:04 am

IanR wrote:I know from personal experience that at night, in certain weather and cloud conditions, these beams were very pronounced and certainly caused strange visual effects.

I agree that these light sources could yield pronounced beams and diffraction/refraction effects that look like multi-colored rainbows or halos.

But John’s original drawing does not look like a halo or rainbow at all, nor does Jim’s original drawing. On top of that the lighthouse was miles away so any diffraction/refraction effect seen from East Gate would be very vague if visible at all.

So in my opinion we still miss an essential part, something with a triangular shape, a red light on top and a horizontal arrangement of blue lights in the mid section.

You could of course assume that the original witness statements already cannot be trusted. But in that case there is no data left and any theory will fit, not just the lighthouse. Theorizing without using established data to reject or accept these theories is .. well .. very theoretical :)

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Re: The Object ..

Postby IanR » Mon May 09, 2011 1:20 pm

Well, Penniston's statement said that "a large yellow glowing light was emitting above the trees" and he estimated it to be about a mile and a half directly to the east of East Gate. That certainly sounds like they were seeing something above the trees and it's consistent with lights being reflected off cloud.

The fact that they drove out into the forest to find the source of the light confirms that they thought what they were seeing was some way from East Gate. This is the course they took, as best I can reconstruct on the basis of Jim's drawing and their statements, including the location of the otherwise mysterious "clearing" they refer to:
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/rendlesham2d.htm

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Frank » Mon May 09, 2011 3:26 pm

IanR wrote:Well, Penniston's statement said that "a large yellow glowing light was emitting above the trees"

.. and "In the center of the lighted area directly in the center ground level there was a red light blinking on and off 5 to 10 sec intervals. And a blue light that was being for the most part steady."

The red and blue lights - witnessed from East Gate - are also in the statements of Burroughs and Buran.
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Re: The Object ..

Postby IanR » Mon May 09, 2011 4:20 pm

Frank wrote:In the center of the lighted area directly in the center ground level there was a red light blinking on and off 5 to 10 sec intervals."

Ooh, where have I heard that description before??

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Re: The Object ..

Postby Frank » Tue May 10, 2011 6:31 am

Ed Cabansag wrote:While we walked, each one of us would see the lights. Blue, red, white, and yellow. The beckon light turned out to be the yellow light.
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Re: The Object ..

Postby Ignis Fatuus » Tue May 10, 2011 2:34 pm

Frank
Ed Cabansag wrote:While we walked, each one of us would see the lights. Blue, red, white, and yellow. The beckon light turned out to be the yellow light.

Haha but are the red and blue lights - lights in their own right? Or are they the dazzle from the primary light source bouncing off reflective surfaces? For example the beam of the lighthouse reflecting from the central chimney pot of the farm house at 5 second intervals. Hell even white light moving through trees on a crisp night can give the red and blue light effect. What's the performance of spectacles on a freezing cold night with condensation and warm breath?

I'm picking that practically every light in the east threw them. Jim's statement is very illuminating by the details he omits. Dollars for donuts - he made a premature ID of 'the object' before realising he just called in a Farmhouse sighting. As soon as they were no longer at eye level with the beam, and they moved down towards the Farmhouse the Dazzle effect was no more.

Frank, that rainbow halo picture....the effect is more like a lens flare that produces what seems to be balls of light...but it's just an effect. Seen it before.

Of course the date might be a give away. Nobody have christmas trees and lights in their windows in Suffolk 1980?
Image
Oh, and I think the fireball kicked it all off as well. The eye catches a glimpse of the fireball - then latches on to the next light it sees and a whole series of unconnected dots becomes connected in the imagination, forming one big Dot that never was.
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Re: The Object ..

Postby Ignis Fatuus » Tue May 10, 2011 4:33 pm

Richard Bertilino: We saw what appeared to be a very bright falling star. It had a blue-green sparkle tail to it. Both Sgt Hall and I looked at each other and go"Wow - that was close!" Looked like it was falling between the two bases.

Larry Warren: At that same time, me and five other guys were walking up a dark path about 2 miles from base... cause we couldn't get a ride and we felt like we were being watched and it was strange cause there were no street lights – Then we saw a bright light go right over us about 50 feet up and just fly over a field. It was silent. That light just seemed to jump over the trees – Then the next day it turned out that we were in the same place as the U.F.O. so I think we saw it too

Ian Ridpath: In 2008 May Larry told me by email that at the time of the sighting he and his companions were heading back to base from Bromeswell, a village to the west of Bentwaters, and had seen the light in the direction of Woodbridge Base, which was to the south of them, consistent with a fireball over southern England.

Richard Bertilino: And all of a sudden on the radio someone starts yelling "there's a UFO out here!"

John Burroughs: On the night of 25-26 Dec at around 3:00, while on patrol down at East Gate, myself and my partner saw lights coming from the woods due east of the gate. The lights were red and blue, the red one above the blue one, and they were flashing on and off. Because I’ve never seen anything like that coming from the woods before we decided to drive down and see what it was. We went down east-gate road and took a right at the stop sign and drove about 10-20 yards to where there is a road that goes into the forest. I could see a white light shining into the trees and I could still see the red and blue one. We decided we better go call it in so we went back up towards East Gate and called it in. The whole time I could see the lights and the white light was almost at the edge of the road and the blue and red lights were still out in the woods.

J.D. Chandler: At approximately 3.00hrs, 26 December 1980, while conducting security checks on RAF Bentwaters, I monitored a radio transmission from A1C Burroughs, Law Enforcement patrol at RAF Woodbridge, stating that he was observing strange lights in the wooded area just beyond the access road, leading from the East Gate at RAF Woodbridge. SSgt Penniston, Security Supervisor, was contacted and directed to contact Burroughs at the East Gate.

Fred Buran: At approximately 03:00 hrs, 26 December 1980, I was on duty at bldg. 679, Central Security Control, when I was notified that A1C Burroughs had sighted some strange lights in the wooded area east of the runway at RAF Woodbridge.

Jim Penniston: Received dispatch from CSC to rendezvous with Police 4 AIC Burroughs, and Police 5 SSgt Steffens at east Gate Woodbridge.

Edward Cabansag: We were patrolling Delta NAPA when we received a call over the radio. It stated that Police #4 had seen some strange lights out past the East Gate and we were to respond. SSgt Penningston and I left Delta NAPA, heading for the East Gate code two.

Fred Buran: Shortly after the initial report A1C Burroughs was joined by SSgt Jim Penniston and his rider, AMN Cabansag.

Edward Cabansag: When we got there SSgt Steffens and A1C Burroughs were on patrol. They told us they had seen some funny lights out in the woods.

John Burroughs: A security unit was sent down to the gate and when they got there they could see it too.

Fred Buran: SSgt Penniston also reported the strange lights.

Jim Penniston: Upon arriving at east gate directly to the east about 1 and a half miles in a large wooded area. A large yellow glowing light was emitting above the trees. In the centre of the lighted area directly in the centre ground level, there was red light blinking on and off 5 to 10 second intervals. And a blue light that was being for the most part steady.

J.D. Chandler: Upon arrival, SSgt Penniston immediately notified CSC that he too was observing these lights and requested to make a closer observation.

Fred Buran: I directed SSgt Coffey, the on duty Security Controlled to attempt to ascertain from SSgt Penniston whether or not the lights could be marker lights of some kind, to which SSgt Penniston said that he had never seen lights of this colour or nature in the area before. He described them as Red, blue, white and orange. SSgt Penniston requested permission to investigate.

J.D. Chandler: After several minutes, Penniston my presence. I departed RAF Bentwaters through Butley Gate for RAF Woodbridge.

Jim Penniston: After receiving permission from CSC, we proceeded off base pass east gate, down an old logging road.

Edward Cabansag: They gave us the go-ahead. We left our weapons with SSgt Steffens who remained at the gate. Thus the three of us went out to investigate. We stopped the Security Police vehicle about 100 meters from the gate.

John Burroughs: As we went down the east-gate road and the road that leads into the forest, the lights were moving back and they appeared to stop in a bunch of trees. We stopped the truck where the road stopped and went on foot.

Edward Cabansag: We kept in constant contact with CSC. While we walked, each one of us would see the lights. Blue, red, white, and yellow.

Jim Penniston: Burroughs and I were approx. 15-20 meters apart and proceeding on a true east direction from logging road.

Edward Cabansag: We were about 100 meters from the edge of the forrest when I saw a quick movement, it look visible for a moment . It look like it spun XXgXX left a quarter of a turn, then it was gone. We advised CSC and proceeded In extreme caution.

John Burroughs: Also the woods lit up and you could hear the farm animals making a lot of noises, and there was a lot of movement in the woods

Jim Penniston: The area in front of us was lighting up a 30 metre area.

J.D. Chandler: He (Penniston) also stated that there was lots of noises in the area which seemed to be animals running around.

John Burroughs: We crossed a small open field that let into where the lights were coming from,...

Edward Cabansag: When we got about 75-50 meters, MSgt Chandler/Flight Chief, was on the scene. CSC was not reading our transmissions very well,, so we used MSgt Chandler as a go-between. He remained back at out vehicle.

J.D. Chandler: When I arrived, SSgt Penniston, A1C Burroughs and Amn Cabansag had entered the wooded area just beyond the clearing at the access road. We set up radio relay between SSgt Penniston, myself and CSC.

Fred Buran: SSgt Penniston had previously informed me that the lights appeared to be no further than 100 yds from the road East Gate of the runway. I monitored their progress (Penniston, Burroughs and Cabansag) as they entered the wooded area.

John Burroughs:...and as we were coming into the trees there were strange noises, like a woman screaming. Also the woods lit up and you could hear the farm animals making a lot of noises, and there was a lot of movement in the woods. All three of us hit the ground and what ever it was started moving back towards the open field and after a minute or two we got up and moved into the trees and the lights moved out into the open field.

J.D. Chandler: On one occasion Penniston relayed that he was close enough to the object to determine it was definitely a mechanical object. He stated that he was within 50 metres.

Fred Buran: They appeared to get very close to the lights, and at one point SSgt Penniston stated that it was a definite mechanical object.

Jim Penniston: When we got within a 50 metre distance, the object was producing red and blue light. The blue light was steady and projecting under the object. It was up the area directly extending a metre or two out. At this point of positive identification I relayed to CSC, SSgt Coffey. A positive sighting of the object…1….Colour of lights and that it was definitely mechanical in nature. This is the closest point that I was near the object at any point.

Charles Halt:The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest. The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately 2-to-3 meters across the base and approximately 2 meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light.

Jim Penniston: We then proceeded after it. It moved in a zig-zagging manner back through the woods, then lost sight of it.

Edward Cabansag: As we entered the forrest, the blue and red lights were not visible anymore. Only the beacon light, was still blinking. We figured the lights were coming from past the forrest, since nothing was visible when we past through the woody forrest. Our route through the forrest and field was a direct one, straight towards the light. The beacon light turned out to be the yellow light. We would see a glowing near the beacon light, but as we got closer we found It to be a lit up farm house.

J.D. Chandler: Each time Penniston gave me the indication that he was about to reach the area where the lights were he would give an extended estimated location. He eventually arrived at a ‘beacon light’, however, he stated that this was not the light or lights he had originally observed.

John Burroughs: We got up to a fence that separated the trees from the open field. You could see the lights down by a farmer’s house. We climbed over the fence and started walking toward the red and blue lights and they just disappeared.

Edward Cabansag: After we had passed throught the forrest, we thought it had to be an aircraft accident. So did CSC as well.

Fred Buran: Due to the colours they reported I alerted them to the fact that they may have been approaching a light aircraft crash scene. SSgt Penniston reported getting near the object and then all of a sudden said they had gone past it and were looking a a marker beacon that was in the same direction as the other lights. I asked him if he could have been mistaken, to which Penniston
replied that had I seen the other lights I would know the difference. SSgt Penniston seemed somewhat agitated at this point.

Edward Cabansag: But we ran and walked a good 2 miles past out the vehicle, until we got to a vantage point where we could determine that what we were chasing was X only a beacon light off In the distance.

John Burroughs: We followed it for about 2 miles before we could see it was coming from a lighthouse.

Fred Buran:They continued to look further, to no avail. At approximately 3:43 hrs, I terminated the investigation and ordered all units back to their normal duties. I directed SSgt Penniston to take notes of the incident when he came in that morning.

-Breakfast at Bentwaters-

Larry Warren: I sat down quietly at the table. Staff Sergant Jim Penniston and a few others were there. They knew what had happened. Some guys talked about anything else that came to mind, but I had an overwhelming need to talk about the UFO...

Flight Cop A: Was it really a UFO?

Flight Cop B: What did the Aliens look like?

Jim Penniston: Hey, Warren, shut the fuck up!
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