CIA using us

[redsocks]

Hi Puddlepirate,

Totaly agree what you say and bearing this in mind doesent the lack of MOD involvment make the airmans story look weak? Like I previously said there wasnt much involvment from any quarters when it first happened.I am starting to wonder when you really look into this if there is any credibilty at all in what Halt and the airmans tale.

1)No MOD police involvement on any night.
2)The "UFO" fits the description and ground markings of the rescue capsule.
3)Ex Bentwaters Airmen have verified the capsule theory(ok no one is willing to come forward with this).
4)Halt has got the dates wrong of the event on more than one occasion.
5)From the first landing sight to the second is directly on line with the lighthouse"beam" the airmen followed on the second night.Even the local police said this at the time and I have seen it for myself.
6)Theres not one local witness to the sightings on the actual nights,years later locals said they saw unsual lights but cant remember which nights some years later.
7)Even the airmens storys varied at the time which seems odd,some who were there were deemed as not and others that were there apart from 3 or 4 have no interest in saying anything.
8)Its very easy for the airmen to use the military as a buffer in this situation,MIB, underground bunkers are all on hand to prop up the story.
9)Quite a few airmen have stated that the forest had been "flattened" after the incident,the trees came down in the 1987 storms and have nothing to do with the UFO sighting,as for the landing site the forest clearance covered that area as a matter of course, the people in the forestry commission centre at Rendlesham explained this to me.
10)Is it any suprise that the "barnyard animals"on the second night were going crazy bearing in mind there was a large group of airmen close by in a forest with lightalls, jeeps, radios and speech.
This is just of the top of my head I'm sure theres more if you look deeper.

Talk to any USAF airmen who was there at that time and like Observer stated at his time at the Rod and Gun club the UFO story filtered through as a prank.
Airmen have come forward with other theorys,the cop car prank,torch in the woods prank,plane crash,but nobody involved from ARRS and the security police will put there name to the ARRS capsule rescue/prank.WHY?
I think theres a strong shout for evidence for the capsule theory but one of this small minority must come forward and only when this happens will the truth truth finally come out.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi redsocks

You have raised some interesting points some of which have been discussed at length in past posts.
You ask many questions most of which remain un answered.

There are people out there who probably have answers but for reasons only known to them have not come forward. Perhaps a good few don't even know about this forum, but some of the main players in the incident do such as Penniston Etc.

We have been teased a bit by one ex ARRS pilot, and others have dipped their toes in the water, but as yet no body has come up with any thing concrete.

I'm wondering if Admin has heard yet what Lt Col Halt, Ret. has revealed in the latest Doc?

Observer

[puddlepirate]

Hi Redsocks, Observer, forum all.

To take the points raised by Redsocks in his last post:

1)No MOD police involvement on any night. - given the US military's propensity for adherence to procedure this raises a very big question indeed
2)The "UFO" fits the description and ground markings of the rescue capsule - this gives weight to the capsule prank theory
3)Ex Bentwaters Airmen have verified the capsule theory(ok no one is willing to come forward with this). - further weight to the capsule prank theory
4)Halt has got the dates wrong of the event on more than one occasion. - this substantially weakens the UFO theory
5)From the first landing sight to the second is directly on line with the lighthouse"beam" the airmen followed on the second night.Even the local police said this at the time and I have seen it for myself. - gives credence to the lighthouse theory
6)Theres not one local witness to the sightings on the actual nights,years later locals said they saw unsual lights but cant remember which nights some years later. - further weight to the lighthouse theory and possible atmospheric distortion of the light emitted by the lighthouse
7)Even the airmens storys varied at the time which seems odd,some who were there were deemed as not and others that were there apart from 3 or 4 have no interest in saying anything. - as with (4) above this weakens the UFO theory
Its very easy for the airmen to use the military as a buffer in this situation,MIB, underground bunkers are all on hand to prop up the story. - as underground bunkers etc are known not to exist, then this further weakens the UFO theory
9)Quite a few airmen have stated that the forest had been "flattened" after the incident,the trees came down in the 1987 storms and have nothing to do with the UFO sighting,as for the landing site the forest clearance covered that area as a matter of course, the people in the forestry commission centre at Rendlesham explained this to me. - more weight against the UFO theory
10)Is it any suprise that the "barnyard animals"on the second night were going crazy bearing in mind there was a large group of airmen close by in a forest with lightalls, jeeps, radios and speech. - but the farmer didn't hear anything. This just isn't possible and farmers are most unlikely to leave their animals unattended. Thus I suspect the barnyard animals element is pure fiction. Even more weight against the UFO theory

a. cop car prank - highly unlikely (cop car in the woods? Please)
b. torch in the woods - a torch would not emit sufficient light (there is an inverse sq law which applies to light - double the distance from the light source and the power of the light is not halved but quartered)
c. plane crash - not a crash but an incident involving an aircraft. Personally, if something did happen then I strongly favour this
d. '...but nobody involved from ARRS and the security police will put there name to the ARRS capsule rescue/prank.WHY?' - if d. were true, then whatever happened was and still is highly classified.

So where does that leave us? I believe there are three viable options:

Option 1 As stated by Redsocks, there is substantial weight for the capsule theory. The trouble with it is that it required a noisy helo (HH53) to carry it out and as stated in the posts, it is simply not possible to just take a helo on a whim because there are too many others involved either at take-off or afterwards (ground crew, fuel logs, flight logs, mtce etc etc)

Option 2 As I've said before, I favour an incident with an aircraft that might have suffered a bird strike or some other failure, whilst on some kind of recce / invasion readiness sortie over the Poland/Russia border. The A10 was loaded with depleted uranium rounds and was fitted with highly confidential kit mounted on pylons under the fuselage. It did not have night HUD capability and was known to suffer an intermittent fault with the attitude indicator which led pilots to becoming disorientated at night. Damage to tree tops and the Woodbridge landing lights (if true) could have been caused by an aircraft making a landing at Woodbridge. An A10 coming in to land is very quiet. The Poland issue was huge at the time and reconaissance flights to monitor Soviet movements along the border would not have stopped for Christmas - they might not have been flown from Bentwaters/Woodbridge but they might well have been flown from elsewhere. I also believe the issue re the evacuation alert at the prison located to the south of Orford, the capsule theory and the whole UFO saga are key elements of this, with the capsule and the UFO being part of a cover-up to mask the reason for the excursion into the forest. MoD police might well have been told as per standing orders but if the incident theory is true and in paricular if it involved DM rounds and/or the highly classified piece of kit (the UK might not have been informed of the classified kit but would have known of the DU), then the whole thing would have been escalated to the highest authority - UK PM/US President level - and the involvement of MoD Police would have been deemed unnecessary in this instance. Thatchers' statement that 'you can't tell the people' and the MoD's statement that it was of 'no defence signifigance' lend huge weight to this one, as do the numbers of US airmen involved, the use of geiger counters, the taking of soil samples and the threats (if such were indeed made) to several of the airmen (notably those recently joined or recently qualified junior ranks) as to what would happen to them should they ever speak of what they saw.

Option 3. Nothing happened at all - given the many contradictions then the whole story could be a hoax created by the 67th ARRS. I also like this one, it is supported by the attitude prevalent in the 67th ARRS at the time, their liking for pranks and so forth. However, what weakens this is the numbers of airmen involved. If it were only a couple of guys from the 67th then I'd go for this.

My money is on Option 2 - an incident involving DU rounds, highly classified kit and an A10 from somewhere else that suffered a problem and needed to land urgently. The aircraft was routed out over the sea, well away from Sizewell A and to the south of the town of Orford but vectored in over an area north of the prison. Whilst not under the flightpath, the prison was put on alert as a precaution. The town of Orford could not be alerted due to the panic it would cause. The aircraft came in low, was on VFR and because of the lack of HUD and a secondary problem with the attitude indicator (made worse by the lack of points of reference over the forest), it clipped the trees. There was sufficient to damage to the magazine to release a quantity of DU and HE rounds. The contact with the trees also knocked off the classified kit on the pylon below the fuselage. The pilot might have released a flare to mark the spot. Just before landing he clips the landing lights but touches down safely.

The base commander is informed of what has happened. MoD (inc MoD Police) is likewise informed. Halt is ordered to lead a recovery. A cover story is required to mask the activity -hence the capsule and/or UFO story(ies). The 67th are tasked to find the stuff that was dropped. They use a helo to complete an aerial search to find the location but create the capsule story as a cover - they might even have actually dropped it to explain the damage to the trees. Once they'd found what they were looking for, they could even have used the capsule to convey the stuff back to base to keep it out of sight. The SP are required to secure the area so they use the UFO story as a cover for their presence in the forest - but it is part based on fact because senior officers are aware of the use of the capsule (it it was used). Other airmen are not aware of the capsule - either of its presence on base or of its use here - so they are mystified by what they see. Specialists take soil samples and radiation readings. All this takes three nights. The confidential kit is recovered and loaded on to a C130 from Ramstein. Junior airmen are left in no doubt as to the need to keep their mouths firmly shut. UK PM aware, US President aware. There is a very real risk of extremely damaging publicity and public demonstration, should the locals become aware. The whole thing is kept quiet for at least two years. Superb job done. Halt promoted.

That's what I think happened.

[redsocks]

Hi Puddlepirate,Hi All

I see where you are coming from with your aircraft incident for the following reasons,even though i'm still optimistic about the ARRS theory I'm pretty sure somebody would have come forward why shouldnt they? they would have nothing to lose it was just a prank after all.if it was a plane crash a military situation this would give strength as to why the airmen are still keeping hush hush,retired or still serving they signed an official secrets act that they by law need to stand by and also do they really want the hassle, they know how it works!.
Second reason is that about 4 months ago radio Suffolk did a phone in on the Rendlesham incident with Nick Pope saying he's piece etc....A local Orford resident called up and claimed the UFO story was actually a plane crash saying an airman who lived close by him told him what actually happened he even gave the guys name.
Because I was working I was just catching snippets of the broadcast and didnt really think to much about a plane crash theory at the time but now have changed my mind thinking it does carry some substance primarily for what I said in my first reason.I'm not sure if theres a pod cast of that broadcast.I'm not so sure Halt said too much interesting as the History channel UFO forum doesent carry one story about the recent documentary,but I dare say he gave us a taster for he's forthcoming book!!

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi puddlepirate and redsocks

Firstly, i quite like puddlepirate's theory for some ordinance dropped in the forest along with classified kit. I still like my theory of the Apollo command module as it fits the descriptions given by several witnesses.

As for an aircraft crash, no way, not in the forest, there would have been devistation on a huge scale, but there was not, just a few branches damaged and 3 foot marks in the earth[Apollo module] perhaps?

There may have been an emergency landing which ended up on the runway and the aircraft concerned may have had 'bits' fall off during the approach? Its a good theory and i would like Graham Haynes to put his take on this theory. Having said that, the alleged landing sites of the UFO are way off the flight line approach path.

There have been a few 'prangs' at both bases over the years [check with Graham Haynes] but most found their way into the news, either locally or nationally.

I still maintain there is good money to be made from this incident by some people who shall remain nameless.

As for Nick Pope, who i have corresponded with on occasions, with the greatest respect to Nick, he trots out the same thing on every interview and never really says any thing other than the obvious or what most of us know all ready. He certainly has not come up with anything new or even tried out a theory on us. WHY?

Is Nick totally UFO minded or does he have any other theories like we do, if so lets hear them.
Lastly, its worth bearing in mind that only a small proportion of people at both bases knew about the Apollo training module let alone ever saw it. So to the un initiated it could be seen as some sort of sinister alien space craft especially if they were told it was!!

Observer

[puddlepirate]

Hi Redsocks

I know I keep on about it but from what is known and from the reticence of others to come forward, I reckon it must have been an incident involving an aircraft and something carried by that aircraft - and that led to the involvement of the ARRS and the Security Police. It's the only thing I can think of that ties in with all the other stuff and the need for absolute secrecy, secrecy to be maintained even now. Whatever it was - assuming my theory is correct - was a major concern for both the US and UK govts. That suggests that if whatever happened had become known there would have been public uproar, amplified by the press. Also, if you go to: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1967.html and scroll down to the listings for F111A's you will see the following statement:

"..0069 at the Southern Museum of Flight, Birmingham, AL. Noted in July 2002 in a fenced compound at Birmingham Apt, AL. The reports that 0069 was the plane that crashed on approach to RAF Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK Dec 26/27, 1980 seem to be in error. This is the famous 'Rendlesham Forest' UFO report, which may have been caused by an F-111E losing a tactical nuclear weapon".

What reports I wonder? This correction strongly suggests that there was a problem with an aircraft coming into Woodbridge but it wasn't this particular aircraft. I have already had a response from the USAF to an FoI request about incidents in Dec 1980 that involved F11*'s at Bentwaters/Woodbridge and that response confirms there were none, so if it was an aircraft it was another type and therefore, possibly an A10.

Interestingly and according to a previous post, some villagers when asked directly if they had seen anything odd [apparently] mentioned seeing lights but they couldn't remember on what nights. However - and this is pure conjecture - what if what they saw were the landing lights coming on at Woodbridge. They would be used to seeing those on a very regular basis so wouldn't attach any particular importance to them. However, if asked directly about lights they might think the lights they saw were unusual, when in fact they were not unusual lights, just the usual lights switched on at an unusual time.

There was a whole raft of issues over the storage of US nukes on UK soil - I seem to recall that at one time the very existence of such weapons on UK soil was hotly denied by the UK govt but it is now known that they were stored at Bentwaters. It has also been pointed out that Woodbridge was not the official emergency landing facility - but it was originally designed for that purpose and has a very wide, very long runway - and would be ideal for bringing in an aircraft in trouble, carrying seriously dodgy stuff that you didn't want dropping anywhere near the WSA's at Bentwaters or needed to keep away from prying eyes at the officially designated emergency landing field in order to avoid difficult questions. It that were true, then it would be fairly easy to send out a maintenance crew from Bentwaters to covertly effect repairs/unload weapons from an aircraft landed at Woodbridge.

I think I've said enough about this now and like the (ARRS?) contributor quoted in another post, we need to read between the lines.

I would be quite happy to meet up to discuss this and other theories but from now on I will be extremely cautious about posting any more detail regarding my particular theory on here. It is way too easy to be drawn in to revealing too much info on websites. Anyone with web access can read what has been written and that it not necessarily a good thing.

[puddlepirate]

Hi Observer

Yes, like the Rosewell incident of 1947, the Rendlesham thing is a lucrative bandwagon for some so it needs to be kept going as an unsolved mystery. I have no problem with that and given it happened some 27yrs ago now, it matters not one jot if it was indeed an accident involving DU rounds or nukes. Nobody - as far as is known - was hurt and no property was damaged. Eastern England wasn't blown away and as far as I can ascertain from available NHS reports, there doesn't appear to have been any increase in cancers or birth defects in the area.

So, long may it continue as a mystery and let's keep looking at all the options.

[Observer]

Hi puddlepirate

I go along with your theory to a point and a lot of it makes sense. To my mind the enormity of the incident and cover up [which is still in operation to day]? makes me think that it was a bit more than some 30mm DU ammo in the woods or even a bit of classified kit off an A-10. Neither warranted an evac standby to the local prison.

Georgina Bruni did mention that she was told that there was the possibility that a Soviet aircraft complete with N weapons had defected to the West whilst on patrol over the North Sea. These patrols were very common. Woodbridge was chosen as it was a secluded airfield. My only gripe with this is, which soviet aircraft as most were large long range bombers such as the TU-20 Bear and the TU-16 Bison and Badger types. There was no hangers big enough on either base to hide these.
Did some ordinance fall off or was jettisoned before landing?

3 footprints in on the forest floor and a couple of broken branches must be telling us something.

Observer

[Deep Purple]

Its all getting very interesting!
I like Puddlepirates A10 DU round / Top Secret kit theory a lot.
At the time just the mention of uranium being lost would have sent shivers down a goverments spine---- CND protests/ anti nuclear lobby etc.
Classified sensor devices could carry all sorts of things from chemicals to technology that they would wish to remain out of public domain.
Also until woods where throughly searched image what would happen if a kid got hold of a DU round and set it off!--- Put in in a fire or a vice and hit it and it would be terrible.
The A10 is quiet and very strong, this would explain why no one seems to have heard much and why it could clip some tree branches and safely land.
As regards the F111 theory and lost nuke this would cause a huge panic, but why did no one hear such an aircraft being used at night over xmas---- they are very noisy and the local residents would have been fed up.
The Capsule theory could have been sown as further disinformation layer to assist the cover up. I would have thought that most airforce personel would have instantly recognised an Apollo capsule as it was such a media image throughout lates 60s, 70s.
Always happy to meet up as previously discussed, I feel we are getting some where.
Also any mention of a UFO would have be a lovely extra smokescreen/ disinformation for the forthcoming f117a operations in the UK as I have previously mentioned. The whole lot put together could serve the a number of purposes
1) Clean up of a10 DU rounds/ classified kit
2) Ufo flap set in place for strange triangular aircrart forth coming f117a in UK
3) Apollo capsule theory meshed in as another level of disinformation cover up?

[Observer]

Hi all

Some good stuff coming up on the forum.

Admin knows this but you may not, last year i wrote to the governor of Hollesley Bay prison asking him deirectly if his records show of any directive about an Evac standby over the Christmas period of 1980. I also mentioned my involvement into research on the Rendlesham forest incident.
He replied [rather formerly] saying that all records from that period are in the Home Office prisons archives and i should direct my question to that department.
He ended the letter by thanking me for writing but felt that he or his staff had nothing to add to my enquiries. Make of that what you will. I know different as i think Andy from this forum mentioned a friend of his that worked at the prison and had one or two things to say about the incident. Perhaps Andy can remind us.

My next question is, i wonder if any of the Ipswich hospitals were put on some sort of standby? Its common practice in the NHS for many impending situations including war.

Observer

[Deep Purple]

Thanks for your always wise input Observer,
The evacs of any prison etc could be muddled with whatever happened and whatever was told to the staff may not be the truth.
For example they could have told the staff "that a crippled nuclear bomber was about to land at woodbridge" when this may not have been the real resaon for the evacuation.
It will be great to hear what Andy says again.
To me it seems like we are at :-
1) No Alien landing etc
2)Cover up of what really went on because of extreme defence/ Public safety embaressment
3)Some different stories seeded by the authorities to cause extreme confusion/ disinformation
4) Some parties making money out of spinnning the event and authorities have no interest in this, in fact provides more disinformation and mystic about event

[Observer]

Hi deep purple

I aggree with your list which excludes the UFO theory.

You mention that the event/incident was an embarrassment to the US Government/USAF and it could have been of defence significance.
The crew of an ARRS HH-53 under the influence could carry as much embarrassment and cause problems within the US/UK treaty, not to mention what the Russians would make of it.

If for one moment we go with "something fell off or was jettisoned from an aircraft" then we must then look at at what aircraft it was.
Apart from sheduled transatlantic or European flights from USAF/RAF Mildenhall, all operational flying during that period was suspended which includes W/Bridge & B/Waters.

It must have been an unsheduled landing, but i feel that Graham Haynes may be able to throw some light on this. He may also know more about stealth [F-117] deployment to the UK which i feel was not the case, but i may be wrong.

Yes, the A-10 is quiet compared to other jets but i've been under its approach path at B/Waters & W/Bridge and its pretty noisy. Noisy enough for locals near the W/Bridge approach to hear it, take my word on this, its not that quiet if you are near the flight path.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi All,

This is getting very very interesting,I couldnt have put the four reasons "where we are at" better myself Deep Purple I totally agree with that and we should use this as a base if we are going to unravel this whole thing.When I mentioned Plane crash I was looking at the broader sense and the theory that a weapon of some sorts may have fallen off an aircraft,it fits the need then and now for so much security.I believe the capsule was indeed put into the forest at some stage and either directly or inadvertantly it looks like it was used as a cover up for what really happened.The bottom line is that there was a situation at Rendlesham in 1980 that warranted such a high security presence that the USAF sealed off and lite up a large area and whatever was there was taken away by chopper(theres the ARRS boys again! either way they must have been involved!).Theres also a shout for the locals thinking that the commotion was yet another exercise,I lived at RAF Wattisham at that time and the exercises were very frequent with the USAF and RAF and Army involved,locals just got used to it,years later I'm sure it would be difficult for them to know if the commotion was for real or just another exercise......Now this is a long shot but bare with me,do you guys think that Halt,Penniston,Warren and others could have been selected to put together the elaborate UFO story?, as diverse as their different accounts are it gives a story and also throws everything up in the air.Chaos theory I believe its called its even been reserched by the US military.What I am trying to say is I suppose anything is possible with the US Gov if they dont want you to find something out.Just to throw a spanner in the works how come USAF registered vehicles are still seen in the area?,A parcel delivery driver who I know who goes through Woodbridge Rendlesham on his run pointed this out to me I have no reason to disbelieve him he's been saying it for years and it has always puzzled me, why o why would the USAF still have a connection with the area some 14 years after they left?isnt the base privatly owned now?.

Redsocks

[puddlepirate]

Hi All

Just a couple of other things that crossed my mind (assuming an incident that involved radioactive material, nuke, DU or whatever).

a. I understand the Apollo capsule was a real one and not a mock-up (if it was a mock-up then what follows cannot be true). If it was a real one, its structure would include a radiation shield to protect the astronauts as they passed through the Van Allen belt etc.. It has already been suggested that the Apollo capsule was dropped as a joke and I've suggested it could have been used as a diversion but what if it were used, not as a joke, nor as a diversion as such but for a specific purpose. If the shield could prevent radiation penetrating the capsule, the it could equally well prevent radiation from within the capsule leaking out. Assuming something was dropped and whatever it was, was radioactive then the ARRS could have used the capsule to securely transport radioactive material from the forest back to Bentwaters or wherever. It could have been flown by the ARRS from its stowage area to the forest, lowered into the trees, loaded with whatever, hoisted up, then flown back. Loading would have been undertaken by ARRS personnel in NBCD suits.

If this were true, then it would explain the odd shaped craft, damage to the trees, marks on the ground (the capsule was heavy and if loaded with recovered DU would become extremely heavy) the 'thing' suddenly lifting off and so forth. Senior personnel would know what it was and what was going on - hence conversations with 'aliens' (ARRS in NBCD suits prior to recovery being briefed by an officer). If witness statements were required as part of a cover up should one be needed, they would be based on descriptions of actual events. Senior NCO's and above would probably also know what was going on so their descriptions would be an exaggeration but the statements from junior airmen would based on what they saw (given they were mostly at some distance from the centre of activity and were totally unaware of the existence of the Apollo capsule). Using actual events makes it easer to remember the story if required - but would account for variations on the story when retold by different individuals.

A very low flying helo or an inbound aircraft would upset the 'barnyard animals' but as low flying aircraft were commonplace, they would probably not arouse much suspicion amongst the locals. After all, there would be only one inbound a/c and only one helo flight (to drop the capsule, hover whilst it was loaded, hoist up then fly off). The use of the capsule might also account for the upside down mushroom shape seen over Sudbourne. I've no idea if 'black' helos were being flown out of the twin bases at that time but if they were, then one of these might have been used instead of the usual HH53. The 'black' helos had muffled exhausts and other noise reduction equipments to keep them as quiet as possible. A'black' helo could also have been used to sweep the WSA with a powerful searchlight to make it absolutely, 100% certain that all was OK, even though the WSA was well away from the incident.

b. I am not sure of the command structure in place at the twin bases so I am assuming that each squadron or wing had a commanding officer and that he (or she) reported to the base commander (perhaps any USAF personnel watching this forum could advise). Again, if this assumption is correct, then the base commander, as senior officer, would liaise at a senior level with other US military, RAF, MoD, UK govt, US govt etc. The deputy base commander would be tasked to take charge of all ops on the ground - security, recovery, diversionary tactics and so forth - and report directly to the base commander. All comms apart from tactical comms in the forest, would go via the base commander. Any questions from the public or press would be directed to the PR people with any response vetted first by the base commander.

a and b could be the final parts in the basic jigsaw.....and as with a jigsaw, once the basics are in place the details can be added.

[Observer]

Hi all

Yes, Bentwaters is now privately owned, although parts of the 'air side' are fenced off.

USAF registered vehicles seen in the area could be because some USAF personel live locally and commute to Mildenhall/Lakenheath. This is not that unusual as i knew a US family that commuted to Bentwaters from their off base digs near Colchester.

What i would like to know is just where this van driver spotted the vehicles? Was it on one of the bases or just in the area. Also what type of vehicles were they?
RAF Woodbridge is still under the MOD and the British army use it for training and heli ops.
May be the USAF are some times involved with the British army on exercises.

Black helicopters, Graham Haynes definately needs to check this out for us.

I'm not sure but DU ammo even in 1980 was not axactly a state secret, the Russians had it as well.
Its radioactive emmissions when being handled by armourers etc was considered low enough to make it low hazard. There were some risks but only if personel were near it 24/7. However, if we are to believe the statements from those attending the incident in the forest, which now could be a cover story, the radiation readings which were low yield but higher than back ground could point to DU ammo or a similar device.

Fission isotopes found in atomic weapons of that period would be very hazardous if spilled out from a broken bomb casing and readings would be very high, not to mention long term
health problems for those near to it. Having said that, i cannot see an atomic bomb casing splitting open on impact with the forest floor. To my knowledge no body involved seems the worse for wear with any radiation related illnesses. I personally discount an atomic bomb as the culprit.

Observer



Gun loaders

[IanR]

a. I understand the Apollo capsule was a real one and not a mock-up

Not at all! A real one would be far too expensive! It was only a boilerplate model for practicing recoveries in case of emergency landings. There was never anything secret about the Apollo capsule, not even the real ones let alone the dummies.

b. I am not sure of the command structure in place at the twin bases

As I understand it, from what Donald Moreland of the RAF has explained to Dave Clarke in an interview, the top man was the Wing Commander, who at that time was Gordon Williams. Under him were various deputy commanders who were all Colonels, including the base commander who at the time was Ted Conrad. All these commanders themselves had deputies who were Lt Cols. The base commander was an administrator, looking after the base and the buildings. Lt Col. Halt was the deputy base commander, which in RAF terms would be the Deputy OC Admin Wing.

Hope this helps.

Ian
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/rendlesham.htm

[Deep Purple]

Looking good everyone.
Not being an ex militarty person some of it is difficult for me to comment on, but what I have seen cover ups etc they always seem to indicate the best disinformation contains some truth which is what we may bee looking at here.
One important questions is how could the DU rounds come out the A10?
Could it have been a test gun pod with magazine being flown on one of the under wing pylons on the A10. Could it have been a A10 on a secret test mission trying out a Gun pod with DU ammuntion, pod came off on approach to woodbridge during daylight hours and they waited until night to recover the kit/ ammo and used the appollo capsule to do this?

[puddlepirate]

Hi

Thanks, Ian. As the capsule was a model, not a 'real' one - I hadn't checked back but thought a previous post mentioned it being a stripped out real one. So much for relying on memory and not checking the details! - and as the base commander was responsible for routine admin etc not operational tasks related to the squadrons / flights, then forget my last post. Total and complete tosh!

[puddlepirate]

Forgot to add to my last post that when I made the FoI enquiry about F11* accidents/incidents at Woodbridge/Bentwaters I had to send the form to Washington but the reply came from Bury St Edmunds. I've still got the envelope. It bears a Bury St Edmund's postmark and was mailed from Bury St Edmunds on 09.07.03. the envelope also carries details of the department/unit from which the reply came.

So it would seem that the USAF or associated personnel still had a presence in the area in July 03. Or perhaps it simply means that records were moved to Mildenahall or Lakenheath (Q: excuse my ignorance but are Lakenheath and Mildenhall still used by the USAF?)

[puddlepirate]

Gawd...it really would pay me to read what others have written before I reply! Apologies to all...

Observer wrote:

'Fission isotopes found in atomic weapons of that period would be very hazardous if spilled out [from a broken bomb casing]...'
++++

That is an interesting comment. Can the isotopes be transported separately, i.e. not as part of an assembled bomb but as individual components? ('m thinking of the film 'The Fourth Protocol' but that is hardly a reliable source for learning about such things).

If they can, then how are the isotopes packed/transported? If they were transported as individual components, which might make sense if they were used as the 'trigger' for the bomb, then I've absolutely no idea how these things were packed nor do I have any idea as to how they'd end up on a forest floor but flippin' eck......a box load of those on the loose wouldn't please too many people!

er, that's it. I'll shut up now....