Skip Buran's Comments & Introduction [Merged]

[Frank]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your offer to discuss some of the events that went on during the first night. Very good to see another witness participating in the discussions! My actual questions are below, but I added a short introduction to the current state of affairs concerning the first night just to make sure.

I assume you already know that John still stands by his witness statement, i.e., seeing lights that seemed to throw off the shape of a craft and that moved back and disappeared near a farmhouse.
Jim, however, has added a lot of elements to his sighting of a mechanical object at 50 meters. Since his retirement he tells he walked around and touched a craft, taking notes in his notebook and even copied some strange symbols in his notebook that were etched onto the side of the craft. After that he witnessed how the craft slowly moved up to above tree level, and took off in the blink of an eye, without any sound. He has shown his notebook in a number of TV documentaries.

Both men claim that it was of unknown origin, they never claimed it was ET. They speculated about its origin after some hypnotic regression sessions but always made clear this was mere speculation from their side. These speculations are now used by skeptics to ridicule them.

I assume you also know that Col. Halt wrote a memo to the MOD two weeks after the incident in which he states (emphasis is mine):
“The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest. The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light. The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath. The object was hovering or on legs. As the patrolmen approached the object, it maneuvered through the trees and disappeared.”

Hopefully you can shed some light on the following issues:

1. In your witness statement you write:
“After talking to him [=Jim] face to face concerning the incident, I am convinced that he saw something out of the realm of explanation for him at that time.”
Why did you explicitly put that in your statement and what made you think he saw something extraordinary? What emotions did he show when you first talked to him?

2. Halt took statements from the men and describes the craft as “metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high”.
Did Jim (or any of the other witnesses) ever give you a description or size estimates of what he witnessed? If so, does it resemble the description in Halt’s memo?

3. The timeline that emerges from your witness statement is:
At 03:00 the incident starts when John Burroughs first reports the lights.
At 03:54 you terminated the investigation.
At 04:40 the men returned, since it took them about 45 minutes to return to the vehicle.
In your witness statement you also write that the times mentioned may be inaccurate due to the passing of time and the fact that you did not take notes.
According to Jim’s notebook the events started at 12:20/12:50, at which time he got a call to respond to a possible aircraft crash. Is that possible?
How accurate is your time of termination, and did you give the termination order while the men were still in the woods or after they had returned?

4. There have been claims of a period of lost radio contact with the men – a period of 45 minutes. MSgt Chandler acted as a radio relay during the event.
Do you remember MSgt Chandler losing radio contact with the men and are you able to estimate how long this period lasted?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

[Frank]

Questions to Fred Buran

(I posted this in the introduction section, too, but I repost it here just to make sure)

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your offer to discuss some of the events that went on during the first night. Very good to see another witness participating in the discussions! My actual questions are below, but I added a short introduction to the current state of affairs concerning the first night just to make sure.

I assume you already know that John still stands by his witness statement, i.e., seeing lights that seemed to throw off the shape of a craft and that moved back and disappeared near a farmhouse.
Jim, however, has added a lot of elements to his sighting of a mechanical object at 50 meters. Since his retirement he tells he walked around and touched a craft, taking notes in his notebook and even copied some strange symbols in his notebook that were etched onto the side of the craft. After that he witnessed how the craft slowly moved up to above tree level, and took off in the blink of an eye, without any sound. He has shown his notebook in a number of TV documentaries.

Both men claim that it was of unknown origin, they never claimed it was ET. They speculated about its origin after some hypnotic regression sessions but always made clear this was mere speculation from their side. These speculations are now used by skeptics to ridicule them.

I assume you also know that Col. Halt wrote a memo to the MOD two weeks after the incident in which he states (emphasis is mine):
“The individuals reported seeing a strange glowing object in the forest. The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high. It illuminated the entire forest with a white light. The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank(s) of blue lights underneath. The object was hovering or on legs. As the patrolmen approached the object, it maneuvered through the trees and disappeared.”

Hopefully you can shed some light on the following issues:

1. In your witness statement you write:
“After talking to him [=Jim] face to face concerning the incident, I am convinced that he saw something out of the realm of explanation for him at that time.”
Why did you explicitly put that in your statement and what made you think he saw something extraordinary? What emotions did he show when you first talked to him?

2. Halt took statements from the men and describes the craft as “metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high”.
Did Jim (or any of the other witnesses) ever give you a description or size estimates of what he witnessed? If so, does it resemble the description in Halt’s memo?

3. The timeline that emerges from your witness statement is:
At 03:00 the incident starts when John Burroughs first reports the lights.
At 03:54 you terminated the investigation.
At 04:40 the men returned, since it took them about 45 minutes to return to the vehicle.
In your witness statement you also write that the times mentioned may be inaccurate due to the passing of time and the fact that you did not take notes.
According to Jim’s notebook the events started at 12:20/12:50, at which time he got a call to respond to a possible aircraft crash. Is that possible?
How accurate is your time of termination, and did you give the termination order while the men were still in the woods or after they had returned?

4. There have been claims of a period of lost radio contact with the men – a period of 45 minutes. MSgt Chandler acted as a radio relay during the event.
Do you remember MSgt Chandler losing radio contact with the men and are you able to estimate how long this period lasted?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

[ncf1]

By finally admitting that much, I presume its safe to say that you include yourself, Ian and Fatuus, aswell as the rest of us on this forum in that statement too! I agree with that, NOBODY but the witnesses themselves are in any position of authority whatsoever, to claim to know what exactly happened to them in the forest, or to claim any of what they say is true, or untrue, to any degree of a certainty at all.

It couldn't be put it better.

[stephan]

@ AgentAppleseed, if you can't let loose that's your choice. And if my hypothesis is correct it is up to the witnesses to either choose to continue living a lie or to put things straight once and for all. People won't start a witch-hunt if they did. Things would simply calm down after a while.

you have no idea how much I would have liked their stories to be true. In fact my own childhood experience brought me here. I wanted to find out if there was a connection. And IF there has been ET contact - as Halt claims - I cannot imagine that it happened as they claim ... I always had by doubts in regard to their stories and escpecially in regard to the Halt tape. So if this wasn't a cover-up for the real events that took place then it is like Armold, Conde, Conrad and Skip say: It never happened!

@ Ignis, I hope there will be no Keel hauling

[Admin]

Thank you for joining, Skip. I have moved your thread into the Rendlesham section of the forum, as I'm sure there will be plenty of questions for you.

[John Burroughs]

Skip
I'm glad you joined. First of all when I talked to you a year ago you stated after the incident happened we went on break and then you were on leave for 3 days. You then told me you were asked to write a statement after you returned. I have now been told you claim you took statements from us and on your post today claim that there was a investigation. But when I talked to you on the phone you stated you wish you would have followed up on your return from leave. For starters did you ordered off base thinking there was a down aircraft? Was one of the reason's why that you were told there was radar contact with a object over Woodbridge that then disappeared off radar? I will follow up with more questions to include things you put in your statement. One more thing Jim and I have never stated it was alien contact all we have stated was it was a unidentified object which could be called a UFO. So how were we mistaken?

[jpenniston]

Hello Skip, welcome to the forum... glad you are finally surfacing after three decades... I have a couple questions that have been bothering me for years... I am sure you have the answers... The written statement you said I did for you, and then you inturned gave to Chuck Halt. Why was it typed? Why was it not on the same USAF witness forms as the others? Why wasn't dated or signed by me, as all others witnesses were?

I never gave you a written statement Skip.... the written statements I gave, were in the AFOSI Office, which was then deamed, classified. And the written statement in Halts office, on the Monday... after the second night incident... all my statements were hand written, signed and dated by me.... Where did you get that typed statement from?

The interesting thing is, that typed statement, is what I was pretty much was told to tell Command and all others after the incident... by whom ever those people were in the AFOSI building that interviewed me... I was following direct orders issued by them, on the premise it was an active on-going investigation, after first interview...

Why would you not follow up after your return from leave, with me, on the picticulars of what happen... after all, I was following your orders to go off base... It is something that never made a lot of sense to me, and I am so pleased to see you finally come forward so I may ask these things, and much other things that have been a mystery for so many years... I also do not remember talking to you on the morning we had came in... Where were you, and why did you let us report this to the Day Shift Commander, and not you... why did you not stay around? I do have many more questions for you Skip, so I am very happy you have decided to come forward... Look forward to interesting conversations with you...

[AgentAppleseed]

Skip, welcome to the forum.

Id like to start by saying that I myself, dont "believe" anything. I am interested in the facts, only!
If Im not mistaken, the quote below is Mr Burans first post.

OK, SSgt Penniston reported seeing what he thought was a mechanical object. He never said what it was. And MSgt J.D. Chandler, who was very close by, never saw or heard anything. And by his own admission, every time SSgt Penniston thought he was getting close to the "object", there was nothing there.
Folks, there was nothing in the forest that night but the lights (which have been explained) and maybe some SPs goofing around.
But I fully understand that I can change no one's beliefs about this.

So lets start here:

OK, SSgt Penniston reported seeing what he thought was a mechanical object. He never said what it was

The statement above, does not make sense. Skip just said that Penniston reported he saw a mechanical object, but if Penniston reported seeing a mechanical object, then he did indeed state what he believed it was! Afterall; mechanical object, is a mechanical object, is it not?!
This is backed up by Burans statement and Chandlers statement which both men signed.
From Chandlers statement-:

On one occasion Penniston relayed that he was close enough to the object to determine that it was definitely a mechanical object.

And by his own admission, every time SSgt Penniston thought he was getting close to the "object", there was nothing there.

Actually, this is not essentially true. The statement above implies that Penniston was chasing an object which was creating the illusion that it was nearby, while in reality the object was not nearby at all, and was more likely off in the distance. In essence, an optical illusion. However, the actual wording on Chandlers statement is:-

Each time Penniston gave me the indication that he was about to reach the area where the lights were, he would give an extended estimated location.

AND the following-

On one occasion Penniston relayed that he was close enough to the object to determine that is was definitely a mechanical object.

The meaning here is pretty clear. Penniston finally caught up to an object which according to him was moving through the forest. At one point, he got within 50 feet of it, at which time he is able to report a definite mechanical object! This goes some way to proving beyond a reasonable doubt, that the object was not at all a far off optical illusion, as Penniston was able to get close enough to the object, indeed within 50 feet of it, where he then made the observation that he was looking at a definite mechanical object. I think it is fairly safe to say, that the object then moved off again, which illustrates perfectly that what was happening was that the object was moving through the woods and stopping, at which time the men would clear some distance between them and it, however upon coming within a certain distance of the object, it would begin to move off again in an effort to maintain its distance from the men.

Folks, there was nothing in the forest that night but the lights (which have been explained) and maybe some SPs goofing around

Well, the statements that Skip and Chandler signed are pretty clear, as are Pennistons and Burroughs. There most certainly was something in the forest that night. Skip however, was not in the forest, while the sightings were ongoing, and the witnesses who were there, maintain that there were more than just lights observed, going so far as to say; that at one point, a definite mechanical object was also observed. It is neither here nor there to claim that only one witness saw a mechanical object. The point is that a mechanical object was seen, which was described in later statements in more detail, as being roughly triangular in shape.
On a side note, the light or mechanical objects were producing effects on the witnesses and the forest around them which also goes some way towards the conclusion that these lights were more than just lights, and in fact these lights very well may have been actually mechanical objects instead of just lights. Whatever they actually were, the objects in the forest have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be UFOs.
The proof, is in the pudding, and Ill leave the final line on this particular post to Mr Buran himself.

After talking with him face to face concerning the incident, I am convinced that he saw something out of the realm of explanation for him at that time. I would like to state a this time that SGT Penniston is a totally reliable and mature individual! He was not overly excited, nor do I think he is subject to over-reaction or misinterpretation of circumstances. Later that morning after conversing with Capt Verano, the day shift commander, I discovered that there had been several other sightings. Any further developments I have no direct knowledge of!

The quotes above come from Skip Burans own statement, made at the time of the incident and signed by the man himself.

[John Burroughs]

Skip
I want to get these question in before everybody finds out your on here, your going to find out shortly what we have had to go through. First of all I will restate Jim and I have never said we had alien contact! We have talked about what we saw and reported. Both of us have gone under Hypnosis with some interesting things coming out but I have made it clear in what I remember and what came out under hypnosis. So did you ever review are statements after then incident happened and if so when? When you stated in yours that you were convinced Jim saw something out of the realm of explanation why did you also not add in you felt we also could of been mistaken or confused after all it was a official statement! Did you ever go out into the woods afterwords and look around? If so what did you see? Who asked you to write your statement and after you wrote it what kinda of follow was done? At the end of your statement you stated you were told there had been other siteings by other people what were you briefed on? Why don't you go step by step from the minute you were notified what took place. Let everybody know why we went out there step by step who you notified that we were out there and what you remember us saying on the radio. Why did you send Chandler instead of responding your self. After all we did go off base which is something that is highly critical. When you did your notification after wards what was said and who was notified? How did they respond to you sending us off base. Did you ever talk to us or anybody else about the incident after we went on break? Have you ever listen to Halts tape? I'm sure your aware that Lt Tamplin and Lt England were also involved in there own incidents with MSgt Ball! Did Ball, Tamplin or England ever talk to you about what happened to them? Did Maj Zickler ever talk to you about the incident? Did OSI or any other agency interview you? Why did the Base Commander state at the end of the day he not sure what happened to us even brought up the possibility it could be ET in nature! And did you or did you not make this statement to Linda Howe. The only men who really know what happened in Rendlesham Forrest are the men who were there! I have many more questions but these are a good starting point. Good luck answering all of the questions that are heading your way LT Col Buren Retired but at the end of the day if there are things you can't or won't talk about and your really not sure what happened to us I feel that Jim and I will deserve a apology from you. After all as General Williams stated we were good men doing are job!And did we or did we not go out on your orders do are job and report back what we saw? And I ask again why did you not state in your official statement that you felt we could have been Mistaken or Confused?

[arvd]

Good luck keeping up Skip !

[John Burroughs]

Appleseed great points please re post them on the other thread!The introduction Skip Buren, Jim and I have always hoped there would be a officer willing to step forward and answer tough question's. Welcome to the lion's den Lt Col Skip Buren lets see how much you can take!!!

[Admin]

I have merged both the Skip Buran threads together. I hope it is less confusing. Nothing has been deleted.

[puddlepirate]

Skip - welcome! I sincerely hope you can bring some sanity to this circus - but I'm not holding my breath. It appears, to me at least, that reasoned debate has been replaced by claim and counter claim, poisoned accusation and counter accusation, personal attack and goodness knows what else. So once again, welcome - and good luck.

[sburan]

Well I go away for 24 hrs and all hell brakes loose! First of all before I go to deep into it Ian you were laying low because you light house theory was dead on arrival! As far as Buren goes he did a interview for Coast to Coast a year ago and did not say any of what he posted tonight which is very interesting! He talked about us being out there and loosing radio contact with us. He never said it was a non event.Now he does and uses words like Conrad did. This all comes out after the newspaper article does stateing we will be over there. Armold was taken off after the langage he used. And as you can see he still acts very inmature just like he did back then. He was not out there until the end of the event on the first night after everything was over. As far as Conde less see he went out in the woods without permission pulled a hoax that had a full team go out including his shift commander and nothing happened to him. He would never have been authorized to be there and he had a LE patrol car out in the woods H mm. Burn had his chance in June of 2009 nothing now he comes out with this. Armold and Conde old news but out there since 1997. Conde was offered a chance to call in on the Paul Eno show and did not why is that. And I will be talking with good old Buren and asking him why what we have on tape is different from what he has to say now. Ian and others are getting very desparate right now they don't want us to come over and once again Ian meet us in the forrest on the 28th of December and why don't you fly your new found friend Chris Armold over. And last Lt Buren stated he would try to come over for the reunion we were trying to put together interesting if it was such a Non-Event....

Never gave an interview to anyone except Georgina Bruni. Not ever....Have not, to my knowledge, read anything about or by Col. Conrad except in Georgina's book. And I never went out there, at all. My job was protecting USAF people and assets. I wish I had denied permission to even send anyone out there, and would have, except for the possibility that an aircraft crash may have occurred. Then we wouldn't have had some strange, probably misidentified, lights becoming a UFO with beings on board, strange symbols and the AFOSI interrogating active service members in secret underground areas, which to my knowledge, DO NOT exist at RAF Bentwaters.

What rubbish. It gets better as time goes on, which means more prevarication occurs as time goes on.

[sburan]

Hi Fred

Welcome to the forum. I appreciate you taking the time to put your view forward and add perspective to the story, especially as you have nothing to gain, but stand to loose some of your spare time. I have one question. Did you interview or speak to Bud Steffens at any point after the 1st nights sortie into the forest? As he was riding along with John and was part of the initial reporting that something had come down in the woods, I find it odd that there is so little reference to his account, if any at all.

I've posted this in the other thread, just in case you don't get this one. Cheers

Never talked to Bud Steffans that I can recall. But I have to assume that those others who were there and decline to discuss may feel as I do.

[sburan]

Skip
I want to get these question in before everybody finds out your on here, your going to find out shortly what we have had to go through. First of all I will restate Jim and I have never said we had alien contact! We have talked about what we saw and reported. Both of us have gone under Hypnosis with some interesting things coming out but I have made it clear in what I remember and what came out under hypnosis. So did you ever review are statements after then incident happened and if so when? When you stated in yours that you were convinced Jim saw something out of the realm of explanation why did you also not add in you felt we also could of been mistaken or confused after all it was a official statement! Did you ever go out into the woods afterwords and look around? If so what did you see? Who asked you to write your statement and after you wrote it what kinda of follow was done? At the end of your statement you stated you were told there had been other siteings by other people what were you briefed on? Why don't you go step by step from the minute you were notified what took place. Let everybody know why we went out there step by step who you notified that we were out there and what you remember us saying on the radio. Why did you send Chandler instead of responding your self. After all we did go off base which is something that is highly critical. When you did your notification after wards what was said and who was notified? How did they respond to you sending us off base. Did you ever talk to us or anybody else about the incident after we went on break? Have you ever listen to Halts tape? I'm sure your aware that Lt Tamplin and Lt England were also involved in there own incidents with MSgt Ball! Did Ball, Tamplin or England ever talk to you about what happened to them? Did Maj Zickler ever talk to you about the incident? Did OSI or any other agency interview you? Why did the Base Commander state at the end of the day he not sure what happened to us even brought up the possibility it could be ET in nature! And did you or did you not make this statement to Linda Howe. The only men who really know what happened in Rendlesham Forrest are the men who were there! I have many more questions but these are a good starting point. Good luck answering all of the questions that are heading your way LT Col Buren Retired but at the end of the day if there are things you can't or won't talk about and your really not sure what happened to us I feel that Jim and I will deserve a apology from you. After all as General Williams stated we were good men doing are job!And did we or did we not go out on your orders do are job and report back what we saw? And I ask again why did you not state in your official statement that you felt we could have been Mistaken or Confused?

First off, I have no need to prove that something didn't happen, or that something did. I will answer each question and comment in order. Please remember these events did not happen yesterday and I kept absolutely no notes about any of this, as I saw no need to do so.

I was aware Jim Penniston was on some show or other supposedly under hypnosis. I was not convinced.

I read each statement provided to me and passed to the Squadron Operations Officer. Don't know now if it was Capt. Pete Saal or Maj. Ed Drury, I think it must have been Maj. Drury at that time.

I reported on what Jim Penniston had said. Nothing more, nothing less. You may not remember, but I went on holiday leave the very next morning and did not give a statement until my return. Please review the first two lines of my statement.The step by step process is pretty well lined out in Georgina's book. I stand by the account I gave her.

I did not go into the woods. I was the shift commander responsible for the security of two installations and the assets and people assigned to both. And in charge of the entire security and law enforcement functions on both bases at that time. As you know, that was a more important mission than even a small aircraft crash off base for reasons we all know about. Had a crash been the case, we would have notified the appropriate civil authority to handle and offered assistance. As it turned out, we were just chasing lights.

I sent MSgt Chandler for the reasons stated above, but I also felt some senior leadership should be present in case an emergency response were to become necessary. He was, after all, the Security Flight Chief.

I never saw the need to talk to anyone about us wasting time and manpower chasing lights in the forest. I don't remember now who asked me to provide the statement, most likely the Sq. Ops Officer again.

I've heard then Lt. Col. Halt's tape. That's all I have to say about that.

I've never been contacted by AFOSI or any intelligence agency American or British about the incident. I was not sent off to any secret location for a debrief, I didn't have any special assignment orders cut, and I was never hypnotized, injected, polygraphed, probed, or any of that stuff some claim happened. In fact, I married Lt. Deb Knight in "82, she went to George AFB and I stayed at Bentwaters, then in a year or so we went Join-spouse to RAF Greenham Common, where, believe me, WAY more interesting stuff happened than just chasing lights in the forest.

I don't recvall talking to Linda Howe. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, I just don't recall it. I have other things going on in my life. Who is she, exactly?

And for the record, it's Buran and I'm just Mr. now.

Oh, and I never talked to anyone until Georgina Bruni contacted me because.....no one ever asked me. And, unfortunately, I still feel that chasing lights in the forest has gotten way out of hand, to the point that good people's reputations may be harmed because the story as presented is not believed. Once and for all, there was nothing in the forest that night. Too many would have have reported it had there been anything to it. Sorry. And again, that's MY opinion. And I'm talking about the first night, the only one I was involved.

And I don't appreciate the tone...I'm just stating my opinions.

[sburan]

Hi all,

I do have a life of sorts now and unfortunately it's going to be busy for the next week. I'm traveling out of town tomorrow and will not return until late next Monday night. I'm not ducking out, but it's business and I will be tied up day and night and will have little or no access to email other than business related.

I'll be back next week.

Thanks very much,

Skip

[sburan]

Oh, and someone was asking about radio silence? Well, we were using commercially available Motorola (I think) radios. The usual handie-talkies and vehicle mounted radios. And they were mostly beat up. We were lucky we could talk between the bases. What with all the metal buildings and structures and other active electronics on the bases, we sometimes had a difficult time communicating. Our batteries would barely hold a charge for 12 hours in the talkies. I was always amazed that the capability existed to have radio contact from the base to jet fighters over the North Sea, but us SPs could barely talk to each other, much less any other service components. Come on!

[John Burroughs]

Skip
Join the club I don't like your tone also! Its interesting to see that you don't feel you have to prove anything but then go on to say nothing happened! You failed to address the question about if there was radar contact of somthing disapppearing over Woodbridge. You also seem to want to blow off the fact its in several statements that Jim reported he saw somthing mechinal in nature. You also don't seem to want to talk about the fact you put in your statement that you were convinced Jim saw somthing out of the realm of explanation. Or the fact that you didnot put anything in your offical statement that we were mistaken or confused. You stated good people's reputation may be harmed who might that be? And why did you fail to to talk about the other reported siteings that Capt Vereno reported to you. Or if you talked with Ball Tamplin or England about what they were involved with? You keep stateing we saw lights and that we misidentified them why was that not in your statement. If you were never out there or ever went out to take a look how do you know what we saw or misidentified? What does UFO mean to you? And about those statements you stated you read them and then forworded them to OPS and then went on leave. How could you have done that we wrote our statements while you were on leave. Have a good trip Skip can't wait until you get back!

[Frank]

John, I’m not a skeptic but just a rational guy looking for the facts.

- The facts show without any reasonable doubt that Halt and his men witnessed unidentified objects with colored lights on them that moved fast across the sky, and one of them emitted beams of light.
- The facts also show that the red, sun-like object was not at 110 degrees, but to the left of the lighthouse when Halt viewed it through the star scope (http://www.rendlesham-incident.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=838).

It may surprise you, but the facts also show no essential conflict between Armold’s story and that of you and Halt:
- Armold joined you on the first night after the events.
- Armold probably thinks he was a witness to the third night (27/28) while in reality he was a witness to the second night (26/27), when he joined Halt investigating the area but nothing of interest was found (Halt went out to the woods twice, for details see http://www.rendlesham-incident.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=842&start=45#p7841)

So, what do the facts tell about your story versus that of Fred Buran?
Again, they show no essential conflict.

- You saw strange lights you couldn’t explain, Fred Buran confirms it.
- Fred Buran thinks there is a mundane explanation for what you’ve seen, you have been looking for one but haven’t found one in thirty years. You saw them – Fred didn’t; he just gives his opinion.
- What both of you are saying now is the same as can be read in the original witness statements made 30 years ago.

What about Kevin Conde? He has a strong opinion about the case but does not give any convincing new facts.


BUT:
The facts do show a HUGE conflict between Jim’s story and the rest of the data on this case. To my knowledge, the explanations Jim gave thus far are:
- We look at things differently.
- Our memories differ somewhat, and we don’t know why.

Sorry to say this, but even to someone like me, who is open-minded regarding the UFO phenomenon, this doesn’t sound convincing at all.

So why is there no convincing explanation for this? And if there is, why doesn’t Jim simply post it on this forum? The silence is deafening ..
His credibility is at stake!