Possible John Burroughs visit summer 08

[redsocks]

Hi All,

I have been working with JB behind the scenes with the view of a possible visit for John to put he's side of the story over which he feels has never been done properly.Nick Pope has agreed to meet with John as has Adrian who as we know is doing a film called "Codename Rendlesham" who would like to interview John for the film.Also the local press want to do an interview and a local reporter who has agreed to meet John coverered the incident originally.I wanted to tell you guys because you have all worked hard trying to get to the bottom of this this and I know this would be of interest to you.Should be an interesting summer.

Redsocks

[ghaynes]

Seems like there are a number of people working on the same event and not communicating with each other! I thought I was working with Adrian and Ian on the filming and it was to be kept low key as far as Bentwaters was concerned?
Regards.

Graham

Hi All,

I have been working with JB behind the scenes with the view of a possible visit for John to put he's side of the story over which he feels has never been done properly.Nick Pope has agreed to meet with John as has Adrian who as we know is doing a film called "Codename Rendlesham" who would like to interview John for the film.Also the local press want to do an interview and a local reporter who has agreed to meet John coverered the incident originally.I wanted to tell you guys because you have all worked hard trying to get to the bottom of this this and I know this would be of interest to you.Should be an interesting summer.

Redsocks

[AdrianF]

Just to clarify, I have made no arrangement with John Burroughs to film an interview as yet. I have no idea as to his plans for his visit, other than what I've read on here. I am as Graham has pointed out planning a filming visit in the spring, to cover the historical aspect of the twin bases.

Adrian

[ghaynes]

Just to clarify, I have made no arrangement with John Burroughs to film an interview as yet. I have no idea as to his plans for his visit, other than what I've read on here. I am as Graham has pointed out planning a filming visit in the spring, to cover the historical aspect of the twin bases.

Adrian

Thanks for the clarification Adrian. Just didn't want your visit to bentwaters turning into a circus with loads of media hype!
Obviously redsocks is doing his own thing!
Regards.

Graham

[redsocks]

Just to clarify, I have made no arrangement with John Burroughs to film an interview as yet. I have no idea as to his plans for his visit, other than what I've read on here. I am as Graham has pointed out planning a filming visit in the spring, to cover the historical aspect of the twin bases.

Adrian

Thanks for the clarification Adrian. Just didn't want your visit to bentwaters turning into a circus with loads of media hype!
Obviously redsocks is doing his own thing!
Regards.

Graham

Yes Redsocks has been doing he's own thing,When I suggested to JB to meet with AdrianF he was keen so I went on that,I appologise Adrian if I jumped the gun a tad,the other two I mentioned are correct.As for John dealing with you Graham well I must say I am suprised arranging JB to come over and meet up with a confessed Rendlesham skeptic in IanR,what you looking for a witchunt? and lets face it the world wasnt turned upside down after Halt visited the BCWM was it!.

Redsocks

[AdrianF]

No problem Redsocks. Now we can get back to your original post and yes it does look like it's going to be an interesting year all things Rendlesham.

Adrian

[IanR]

As for John dealing with you Graham well I must say I am suprised arranging JB to come over and meet up with a confessed Rendlesham skeptic in IanR,what you looking for a witchunt? and lets face it the world wasnt turned upside down after Halt visited the BCWM was it!.

And I don’t think it would be turned upside down were John Burroughs and I to visit Rendlesham together, either.

For the record, I have always found John open and helpful in my dealings with him. I am happy to state that I believe that he is telling the truth about what he saw and experienced, as best he can remember it after all these years. John and I differ over the interpretation and significance of what happened, but he has still been willing to discuss it with me and I applaud him for that. He had already agreed to meet me whenever he next comes to England, even before he joined this Forum.

You will not be aware of this, but I sent John the link to this Forum on January 17 and he joined the same day. His presence on this Forum has allowed you all to ask him your own questions, and to explore your own avenues of inquiry, which is what I’m sure Admin had in mind when he set up this board. John Burroughs is a significant witness who has been overshadowed of late by the Halt--Penniston partnership. I am sure we all agree that he deserves to have his say.

Ian

[ghaynes]

Just to clarify, I have made no arrangement with John Burroughs to film an interview as yet. I have no idea as to his plans for his visit, other than what I've read on here. I am as Graham has pointed out planning a filming visit in the spring, to cover the historical aspect of the twin bases.

Adrian

Thanks for the clarification Adrian. Just didn't want your visit to bentwaters turning into a circus with loads of media hype!
Obviously redsocks is doing his own thing!
Regards.

Graham

Yes Redsocks has been doing he's own thing,When I suggested to JB to meet with AdrianF he was keen so I went on that,I appologise Adrian if I jumped the gun a tad,the other two I mentioned are correct.As for John dealing with you Graham well I must say I am suprised arranging JB to come over and meet up with a confessed Rendlesham skeptic in IanR,what you looking for a witchunt? and lets face it the world wasnt turned upside down after Halt visited the BCWM was it!.

Redsocks

Think you are out of order Redsocks!! I hadn't organised anything. I was asked by Adrian to meet up and discuss some Bentwaters/Woodbridge history for his film. I have not contacted JB or nor do I have any intention of doing so. My only other involvment was to arrange access to parts of Bentwaters that are out of bounds to the public...something that you obviously didn't want to include in your plans. I do not know the backgrounds of any of the 'key' players in the 'UFO' arena...sceptics or otherwise. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less.
Regards.

Graham

[AdrianF]

I seem to have instigated some negativity from what was probably Redsocks, well intentioned original post. I'm sure that most are here through genuine interest in this case, as I am.

I do think that Ian Ridpath is one of the best qualified experts on the subject out there "arch sceptic" or not. His involvement in this goes back to the early days and as such I feel he should be heard fairly, that, I'm sure most of you would agree. I personally have seen the lighthouse create a spectacular light show on one occasion, so I know it can not be thrown away too easily, if it could be then I'm sure somebody would have done so years ago.
There has been over time a great deal of sceptic bashing, and maybe equally believer bashing in relation to Rendlesham. Like all stories there are always two sides.

Perhaps if there is something that this thread has bought to the table here is whether or not John Burroughs, Col Halt or any of the principal witnesses should confront this possibility, by meeting with Ian at the site. I'd maybe even say that this is perhaps the only place left to go. We could go on speculating forever the multiple possibilities of what happened back there, but only they were there. Ian's theory has not budged an inch. I'm not saying I support it, it's just very difficult to get around unless the principal witnesses open a proper dialogue with him ( which John Burroughs obviously has ).

A meeting at the scene, with real sensible debate rather than sensationalised confrontation is perhaps the only way for this to move on to the next stage. Whether this is done in private or not, I'm sure I would not be the only one interested in the outcome.

Adrian

[Deep Purple]

I agree a sensible debate rather than some sensationalized confrontattion would be the way ahead. There will always be different opinions about this case and we need to respect those who genuinely hold these even if they are 180 degrees from our opinion.
This is a great site with people enganging in sensible considered debate about this most strange event.
JB's recent contribution has been most welcome and valuable. Whilst I dont agree with IanR's belief that it was the lighthouse, he has much to offer the site as a skeptical view point which will always attempt to maintain a healthy balance in the debate.
We are as a forum doing well!

[redsocks]

Totally agree a sensible debate is the way ahead here.I have been comunicating with JB for a while now about a possible visit only with the intention of him telling he's side of the story,JB has made it quite clear to me he is not coming over here to be "witchunted" which I can totally understand,JB has even agreed to a lie detector test in Nick Popes presence which Nick has agreed,this should prove to you skeptics one and for all that he did indeed see something very strange.The press who are to be involved are not up for a so called "media circus"they understand its a good chance for JB to get he's story across and other's with a Rendlesham interest i'm sure also see that.I'm sure the guys fed up with all this skeptic/hoax bullshit thrown at him,he saw something and wants to tell about it,read his body language when interviewed you cant tell me JB and those guys are lying.You have no basis to your skeptical theorys its just what you believe and to prove this you expect to catch JB out sometime thats the bottom line and you know it,lets just get JB here and let the guy say he's piece without feeling people dont believe him.

Redsocks

[AdrianF]

We are as a forum doing well!

Couldn't agree more, this site has been no end of help to me personally and I'm sure to most people here. Some of the newer ideas that have been put forward here might have a link somewhere to the truth and if so then it could be that one day one of these links could lead to the this case being solved.
There are a mountain of possibilities to look through but a couple of probabilities have never been put to bed properly. If this can be done, then maybe the Rendlesham investigation can begin a new chapter.

JB has even agreed to a lie detector test in Nick Popes presence which Nick has agreed

this is good news

I'm sure the guys fed up with all this skeptic/hoax bullshit thrown at him,he saw something and wants to tell about it,read his body language when interviewed you cant tell me JB and those guys are lying.You have no basis to your skeptical theorys its just what you believe and to prove this you expect to catch JB out sometime thats the bottom line and you know it,lets just get JB here and let the guy say he's piece without feeling people dont believe him.

I don't think anybody here thinks JB or any of the witnesses involved are liars otherwise why spend so much time and effort trying to find out what really happenend? There is a great article on UFO skeptisism on http://www.ufoskeptic.org/

Adrian

[Observer]

Just set up a web cam with JB, then compare him to his interview pictures.
Obs

[IanR]

I have been comunicating [sic] with JB for a while now about a possible visit only with the intention of him telling he's [sic] side of the story,JB has made it quite clear to me he is not coming over here to be "witchunted" which I can totally understand,JB has even agreed to a lie detector test in Nick Popes [sic] presence which Nick has agreed,this should prove to you skeptics one [sic] and for all that he did indeed see something very strange.

If you wish to sponsor JB over here on a private visit then you are perfectly entitled to do so. You are the one who wants him to take the lie-detector test, after all.

you cant tell me JB and those guys are lying. Redsocks

Who do you mean by "those guys"? If you mean Larry Warren, I think you will find that JB does not endorse his claims. Neither does JB endorse Jim P's claims of having made a 45-minute examination of a landed craft.

I think Nick Pope, among others, has been led astray by believing one or two witnesses (or self-styled witnesses) who are not telling the truth, and I don't mean JB. It would certainly help everyone if you could establish who is and who isn't telling the truth, but you will have to test a lot more people than JB.

Ian

[John Burroughs]

Its time to clear the air on a few things. #1 Silvertop the forum should not be dead at all. Everybody should state what they think it is or could be and it should be looked at and discussed. You guys don't know me very well my feelings will not get hurt. I have my own opion on what I feel could have happened and thats it. No more no less but I won't back down from anybody or get pushed around. But at the same time I am not afraid to meet anybody face to face and have a fair exchange of facts and opions. I feel it is better that way. The more people we can get over to England the better so maybe we can at least get the facts straight. Redsocks lets get a few things straight you contacted me both PM and in open forum about comming over. I didnot agree to come over this Summer I told you lets work out the details about me comming over. I did say I would look at possibly take a lie dector test and would want to meet up with Nick Pope but that is it. A lie dector test would only work if everybody involved agreed to what the questions were. Plus you would need more than one person to take it. That is why after you first put this out I said I had somebody else in mind and you said no only me. Also I did not agree to have Adrain interview me or film me I even told him that when he PM me. I didnot say he could not be there but I am done giving out interviews to people who are going to make money off of Bentwaters while the witness get nothing or vey little. I am comming over to to meet with anybody who wants to talk with me. I would like to go back to the site and try and look at it since so much has changed over the years to include there now has been claimed that there are 2 landing sites. I still feel the December time frame would work better for several reason. I would be open to going on the record for people who want to make money off of it if I am fairly compensated for it. If enough witness could be convinced to come over some kind of conferance could be done with the general public maybe being allowed to come in. I would even take people down the trail we covered. Graham thanks for offering to get me into places that the General public can't. And like Ian said I allready agreed to meet with him not to tear apart his story but to sit down face to face and see what we can come up with. Please keep this forum going it is the best I have seen but also please take a hard look around the area I feel there are things that can be uncovered before I get there. In closing thank you for listening to what I have to say and don't be afraid to hurt my feelings because that won't happen. If you want to PM fine but please don't make some kind of anouncement that involves me directly with out clearing it with me first. JB

[Wolf]

The problem is of course that this forum is now dead. No one is prepared to publicly speculate what else might have happened or whether it may have been a cover-up of some description for fear of upsetting the witnesses.

Here here.......

I am am the opinion that that the ARRS capsule still has a part to play in this event. Funnily enough that was redsocks entry point to these forums too.

http://rendlesham-incident.co.uk/forum/ ... &start=150

Now this is the interesting bit he was on duty on the night in question he swears that some security guys that werent involved with the ARRS programme saw the capsule reported it and when Halt and others
turned up it was discovered that it was indeed the rescue capsule.It was he says a bit of a joke with the security guys on base at the time.Now interestingly my friend says that in time the UFO story was used for a cover for the armourary that was housed at Bentwaters,apparently locals had heard of a UFO story and the military went along with it.

I have met many people who were involved either directly or indirectly with this event and I don't think any of their stories is the 'Holy Grail' that is needed to answer this riddle, but all their experiences tell the story and extracting the relevent facts is the important thing and that is what this forum is all about. Not's who's got the biggest campfire and who's sitting round it.

V/R

Wolf

[redsocks]

Well what can I say JB,you agreed by PM to have a lie detector test done as long as Nick Pope was present???? i'm puzzled why you would back track on this and the other things we spoke about,I also cant understand why you would want to hang out with a known skeptic as you jump down most peoples throuts here at the slightest mention that you may not be telling the truth.I'll tell you John theres a lot of people here who dont think it actually John Burroughs posting here and I for one will not acknowledge anything until web cam proof is given,i'm not going to debate with just a name and have no future plans of doing so.Hands on the table John a few years back I worked for the MOD at RAF LAKENHEATH and met quite a few guys that were based at Bentwaters way back in 1980,when I mentioned the UFO/sightings it was laughed off, it has also been said by another forum member who I wont mention here that it was laughed of by airmen who he knew at Bentwaters.If you want people to believe you saw something you are going to have to explain stuff a bit more,I'm not saying you didnt see anything but at least explain what you did see,its just a mix match of stories.Since you have come on here nothing about the Rendlesham incident has changed and I dare say nothing will change.....you are loving all this but do you really think us brits are really that stupid to be strung along?

Redsocks

[John Burroughs]

Redsock
Anybody who calls me a liar will get a responce back from me you can count on it. The only thing I said was lets work out the details on what you wanted to do. As far as people laughing that is fine but I can tell you those of us who were there are not laughing and have to put up with outburst like yours all of the time. I did say I would like Nick Pope there if I do take a lie dector test plus I would like to have more than one witness take one. No one is trying to string anybody along I am just stateing my feelings and opions just like everyone else is on this forum. Ian has been in contact with me for well over a year I also have been in contact at one time with James Easton. Both of them felt they felt they were dealing with the real John Burroughs. I have no problem with talking to anyone who has interest in Bentwaters no matter what they feel. If you would like to pay for me to go on a web cam no problem. Why did you offer for me to come over if you thought I was not the real John Burroughs. What it looks like is you wanted control well that will not happen and I will enjoy the day I can meet you face to face and maybe then you will beleive it is the real John Burroughs.

[redsocks]

Redsock
Anybody who calls me a liar will get a responce back from me you can count on it. The only thing I said was lets work out the details on what you wanted to do. As far as people laughing that is fine but I can tell you those of us who were there are not laughing and have to put up with outburst like yours all of the time. I did say I would like Nick Pope there if I do take a lie dector test plus I would like to have more than one witness take one. No one is trying to string anybody along I am just stateing my feelings and opions just like everyone else is on this forum. Ian has been in contact with me for well over a year I also have been in contact at one time with James Easton. Both of them felt they felt they were dealing with the real John Burroughs. I have no problem with talking to anyone who has interest in Bentwaters no matter what they feel. If you would like to pay for me to go on a web cam no problem. Why did you offer for me to come over if you thought I was not the real John Burroughs. What it looks like is you wanted control well that will not happen and I will enjoy the day I can meet you face to face and maybe then you will beleive it is the real John Burroughs.

Pay for you to go on a web cam? dont get that at all.Dont want control just dont want the piss taken out of me/us with a phoney.Hey how about you holding up a local paper with a current date and posting the pic here,now that would be so easy.I am not saying I dont believe you but I think we need some proof,and believe me I wont feel stupid if it is you,its just nice to know we are talking to who we think we are,and we do know what John Burroughs looks like.Just one other thing John I asked you when you retired from the USAF recently would I be correct in saying you stated "4 year ago"?

Redsocks

[John Burroughs]

I offically retired July 4th 2006. I turned my papers in 2004 but they held me up until my contract ran out because of my ability to work K-9 explosive dogs. I deployed twice to the Middle East between 2001-2003. First in Feb of 2002 to Kuwuit Al Jabbar and Second time for the Gulf War classified location it was with the 410th AEW. Have fun