Where did all the dirt go?

[Wolf]

The underground facility at Bentwaters is an issue that comes up again and again as part of this incident.

A few questions/thoughts.

1. Due to the fact that by 1980 Bentwaters main mission was Tank Killing and had no nuke capable aircraft directly under the wing what would be the point of having this facility. It was the biggest fighter wing in the USAFE and the biggest in the USAF (I'm sure someone at Nellis would argue this point). I'm sure if there was a greater than average number of heavy secure flights (C5's etc) into the base the spotters would have put 2 and 2 together. Also CND's presence would have been greater, louder (and wierder..)

2. Where did all the dirt go? In the late 70's a lot of development occurred on the twinbases, the most noticable buildings being the Tab V (HAS) shelters. But to shift the amount of dirt needed would take some doing. Not to mention specialist tunneling equipment.

3. In the event of there being an underground facility there would have to be an inlet/outlet system for the ventilation. I have never heard of any evidence of this and there is nothing visible on the recon photos I have to suggest any major changes. Also there is no sign of any ground disturbance. This would also need a significant amount of power and would also require backup generators, which would mean fuel tanks and above ground access to them.

4. If there was a secondary mission that was covertly being carried out at Bentwaters, no one is talking about it. Face it its a dead wing, dead mission, dead base and some people do like to talk. I have posed the question to various people within the USAFHO, pilots, maintenance crew, crew chiefs, security personnel, ammo guys etc and no one knew of one.

Now I'm sure there were sealed orders for the crews of the 527th AS who were there in 88-89, but there role in times of war would have become fairly transparent pretty quickly, but at some stage the responses for all eventualities would have been practiced.

As the majority of building works carried out on the base was done by local/UK contractors I am sure that you could not keep them all quiet, especially after a few pints of beer. The plans for the buildings that I have seen were all prepared by English companies, this includes constructional and utility drawings. Also alot of the facilities were pretty generic buildings so whatever was on Bentwaters was mirrored on Woodbridge, Heyford, Alconbury, Lakenheath etc.

I dare say that I'll add more thought to this post as they come to me but feel free to comment or perhaps let a cat or two out of the bag....

V/R

Wolf

[ghaynes]

The underground facility at Bentwaters is an issue that comes up again and again as part of this incident.

A few questions/thoughts.

1. Due to the fact that by 1980 Bentwaters main mission was Tank Killing and had no nuke capable aircraft directly under the wing what would be the point of having this facility. It was the biggest fighter wing in the USAFE and the biggest in the USAF (I'm sure someone at Nellis would argue this point). I'm sure if there was a greater than average number of heavy secure flights (C5's etc) into the base the spotters would have put 2 and 2 together. Also CND's presence would have been greater, louder (and wierder..)

2. Where did all the dirt go? In the late 70's a lot of development occurred on the twinbases, the most noticable buildings being the Tab V (HAS) shelters. But to shift the amount of dirt needed would take some doing. Not to mention specialist tunneling equipment.

3. In the event of there being an underground facility there would have to be an inlet/outlet system for the ventilation. I have never heard of any evidence of this and there is nothing visible on the recon photos I have to suggest any major changes. Also there is no sign of any ground disturbance. This would also need a significant amount of power and would also require backup generators, which would mean fuel tanks and above ground access to them.

4. If there was a secondary mission that was covertly being carried out at Bentwaters, no one is talking about it. Face it its a dead wing, dead mission, dead base and some people do like to talk. I have posed the question to various people within the USAFHO, pilots, maintenance crew, crew chiefs, security personnel, ammo guys etc and no one knew of one.

Now I'm sure there were sealed orders for the crews of the 527th AS who were there in 88-89, but there role in times of war would have become fairly transparent pretty quickly, but at some stage the responses for all eventualities would have been practiced.

As the majority of building works carried out on the base was done by local/UK contractors I am sure that you could not keep them all quiet, especially after a few pints of beer. The plans for the buildings that I have seen were all prepared by English companies, this includes constructional and utility drawings. Also alot of the facilities were pretty generic buildings so whatever was on Bentwaters was mirrored on Woodbridge, Heyford, Alconbury, Lakenheath etc.

I dare say that I'll add more thought to this post as they come to me but feel free to comment or perhaps let a cat or two out of the bag....

V/R

Wolf

Thanks Wolf. Couldn't have put it better myself!
Hopefully we can put this underground base theory to bed once and for all!
Regards.

Graham

[puddlepirate]

Is the confusion over the existence or otherwise of underground facilities a result of different terminology?

I've worked in a major underground facility and the facility itself was proofed against bombs etc., there were no additional shelters. The facility did extend for some distance underground and was on several levels but there were no tunnels as such.

In most instances such places are simply referred to by those who work there as 'the hole'.....

Perhaps this is the case with Bentwaters. What Graham describes is what JB is referring to but under a different name?

[puddlepirate]

Wolf wrote:

3. In the event of there being an underground facility there would have to be an inlet/outlet system for the ventilation. I have never heard of any evidence of this and there is nothing visible on the recon photos I have to suggest any major changes. Also there is no sign of any ground disturbance. This would also need a significant amount of power and would also require backup generators, which would mean fuel tanks and above ground access to them.

Absolutely correct. On the outside of the 'hole' I worked in, there were great big aircon vents and a huge generators.

[Observer]

It now seems that Larry Warren was referring to an under ground facility off base that he was taken to, and not necessarily local to the twin bases.

Obs

[redsocks]

[quote="Observer"]It now seems that Larry Warren was referring to an under ground facility off base that he was taken to, and not necessarily local to the twin bases.

Obs[/quote]

Could this undergroud facility that is mentioned be an old air raid shelter?when I was a kid living on RAF camps these things were everywhere I seem to remember on one base one was actually used as a night club.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Redsocks

Graham Haynes should know about 'air raid' shelters and if Bentwaters and Woodbridge had any. As for other bases in East Anglia both RAF and USAF, probably.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

How about Martlesham?

[Observer]

Martlesham Heath was no longer an air base in 1980, it had become a housing complex, complete with a pub, a church and some shops.
It wasn't completed in 1980 but about half built.

The air raid shelters at the old airfield [and i have been down a couple] are small, enough for 10 men if that and others of similar size have been filled in because of kids safety.

All the old RAF buildings were taken over by commercial businesses.
The BTRC was built in the 60's after the base had closed and i doubt very much if they included under ground bunkers.

I'm realy no expert on the BTRC but any member of the forum who lives near may be able to give us more details about it, not to mention the web sites.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Are there to seperate complexes at Martlesham Heath? Plus what about all of the referances that there was a TS site at Martlesham....

[ghaynes]

Are there to seperate complexes at Martlesham Heath? Plus what about all of the referances that there was a TS site at Martlesham....

Hi John,
Yes, there were two separate Martlesham Heath complexes...the old WWII airfield and the USAF comms site.
Regards.

Graham

[ghaynes]

Redsocks

Graham Haynes should know about 'air raid' shelters and if Bentwaters and Woodbridge had any. As for other bases in East Anglia both RAF and USAF, probably.

Obs

Think I mentioned this in an earlier post somewhere on the forum. There were no air raid shelters at Bentwaters or Woodbridge. There weren't any at any of the RAF stations I was based at either. The hardened ops buildings and hardened aircraft shelters were deemed adequate for air raid protection.
Regards.

Graham