The landing site [later general discussion]

[puddlepirate]

Oops..yes, Bristow. Thanks Obs!

It just struck me that Halt could have gone into the forest, seen the a torch with a red gel over the lens and advanced towards it, that light disappears but he then sees another light and follows that, not realising it is not the same one.

I'd need to check the sequence of events but he mentions seeing a red a light as he advances through the forest, he then seems to follow a different light for a while, then reports another light, low on the horizon coming in from the south. All the lights he sees appear to be low on the horizon and moving. A helo working at low altitude close to the coast but out over the sea, would be low on the horizon and far enough away for there to be no noise, or so little noise that it was masked by the noise the men themselves were making. If the helo was conducting a search northwards, along the coastline it would come in from the south (...'coming towards us now' ). If there was a yacht in trouble, those on board might well have fired off another distress rocket to help the helo find them. These can shoot up and explode into a starburst of red/orange light which might well look like 'molten metal dripping of it'. Also, if viewed head on the helo might well have had a yellow/white light at the front and if low in the sky and approximately in line with the lighthouse, that might have been very similar to the lighthouse and because the helo was higher, its light remained visible as the party descneded the farmer's field. When the helo turned onto a different track, the white/yellow was hid and the red could be seen. It's only a thought. I'm writing this from memory but it would be worthwhile mapping what Halt saw to a helo conducting an offshore search along the coast at about 500 to 1,000ft altitude. As has been stated by others, the lighthouse can only be seen when standing in a precise location within the forest, so should have disappeared from view as soon as Halt and his men moved from that area. Perhaps it wasn't the lighthouse but a helo. Halt was adamant he did't follow the lighthouse but he could well have been misled by something else.

The local paper would have reported any yachts / vessels in distress, SAR events or lifeboat launches so checking their archive could be worthwhile.

There seems to be a confusion of events here. Purely by chance Halt might have stumbled across something that the ARSS were involved with (the main incident) and warned to stop (the first red light in the trees) but not realising he and his men are not alone, then sees something else and follows that for a while, totally unaware that the two are not connected.

I'm rambling a bit here - obviously there is a lot more to this but I'm kind of getting a very foggy picture of what might have happened.

[Andy]

I digress here a bit, but yet again i've seen it mentioned on the front page of the website, aside from it's mention in certain authors books ie Witchcraft and Druidism in Rendlesham forest and i would just like to put the record straight.

I've been a practicing Wiccan or 'Witch', for want of a better word, for God knows how many years?... i've lost count. Probably twenty plus. However, for those not familiar with it, it is a nature based following, and there is nothing sinister about it whatsoever, trust me, and sorry to disappoint. The majority of us do not dance around the woods late at night, naked and making human sacrifices, despite any other misconceptions.

I fail to see the relevance of mentioning 'witch-craft' pertaining to the Rendlesham incident, other than to tap into the human psyche of those ignorant of it, and conjure up the stereotypical, to add a bit of atmosphere and mystery.

I've never seen a Wiccan yet conjure up a UFO. Please, just leave it out, it's not relevant to all this.

[IanR]

So any ideas then Ian as to what it could have been? As said four or five orange lights hovering over the top of the forest for some considerable time, and moving about?

What Halt actually reported was two lights to the north and one (the brightest) to the south. They never flew away. "We left those things out there", said Halt. They were certainly not of this world.
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/rendlesham3.htm

Ian

[Andy]

Andy
Ian will tell you its the light house, but as puddle said there could be a couple of incidents going on in the area one off shore that just coincided with some thing in the forest.
Its BRISTOW helicopters at Gt Yarmouth. They service the oil rigs. I mentioned this possibility some time back in a post where i suggested that one of Bristow's helicopters could be part of the equasion.
They were trained on ASR to a point with their Sikorsky SH-3's that was the passenger carrying version of the Sea King. They had a powerfull downward facing search light to light up the landing platform of the rig.
Having said that, a Bristow heli would not stay on station for long because the RAF ASR would take over.
The hover time on an ASR Sea King would be 15/20 min max, this would vary slightly depending on fuel/passenger load and distance travelled to and from.
Obs

So that rules them out, because as you stated they, ie the ASR Sea King could only hover for 15/20 minutes max, so it obviously wasn't four or five of them. What my colleagues saw, hovered for considerably much longer. I don't know what they were, but only can relay what was told to me, and i have no reason to question those who gave me the information in the first place. At the time they were ignorant of anything that might have been going on, but at the same time they all had two eyes and a brain to register the incoming information. I don't dispute what they saw, and we are talking more than one person here, viewing this from a high level ie a top storey of a hospital building over looking Rendlesham.

[Andy]

Andy
You have pointed out some interesting things and asked some questions.

I would like to know what was 'Scorched', as in the meaning 'burnt'. Was it on the forest floor or was it trees or what?
Only LW and one other mentioned helicopters flying over head on one of the nights in question.
Although Halt described the 5 coloured lights in the sky he never ever mentioned helicopters. The HH-53 is pretty noisy and they would not miss that.
My friend who still lives locally went into the forest about a week after the incident after being told about it from an ARRS mate of his and found on the edge of one of the logging tracks a USAF SP issued torch with a red filter fitted over the lense. He still has it.
Halt said on tape that there was a little/small red light shining at them or words to that effect. He later said it had an eye in the middle of the light, not exact words but will suffice. Was this simply an SP shining his red lense torch at them from a distance amongst the trees. That would look realy strange in a forest at night. He said its moving towards us, was this the SP walking towards them with his torch. Don't forget it was pretty dark.

The same ARRS crew chief who we were both friends with told us that if he told us what had happened we wouldn't believe him any way and he valued his stripes too much.

LW said the area was cordened off and at one point the local Brit Police were not allowed near. This has yet to be substantiated.
I think Halt and Co stumbled upon a clean up operation that he was not supposed to know about and the ARRS are involved some where in this event.
Obs

Obs my colleague's father (a civilian employee on base,working for an insurance company) got to hear of this, and obviously very soon after, and ventured out into the woods on his dinner break. He recall seeing a site surrounded by military personell (in a clearing). However, he and the one or two others who went with him found an area near by where they could not be seen, and what was relayed to me was that he (the father) saw 'scorch marks' three off them, on the ground, not in the trees. It was also commented that judging by the 'Scorch marks' 'something had purposefully landed, as opposed to crashed' ? Obs, may i be struck down dead mate, i'm only relaying to you what i was told. If it's false then i'm safe, but knowing these people, i have no reason to believe they are lying or would have any interest in making it up in the first place, and particularly my own father.... there is no way on Earth i would ever doubt or question that man.... he is honest as the day is long.... trust me. He saw what he saw, and i would never question it. IE driving past and seeing Military Personell strategically placed and guarding the forest's edge. As said, may i be struck down dead.

[Andy]

All i need now is either JB or JP to accompany me to the forest and show me as near a possible, their initial landing site. Their individual statments are seemingly contraversial, and conflicting. However, if it co-incides with the site we now have reason to believe is the original alleged landing site, i feel a cat amongst the pigeons.

[Andy]

Out of interest, how did you come to know of this site Ian? and bearing in mind BB also seemingly confirmed this site and could only have got the information from GB/VT? Unless i'm missing something here, which i don't think i am.

[IanR]

Out of interest, how did you come to know of this site Ian? and bearing in mind BB also seemingly confirmed this site and could only have got the information from GB/VT? Unless i'm missing something here, which i don't think i am.

A site somewhere near the eastern side of the forest has been commonly accepted since the days that Brenda, Dot and Jenny first investigated and wrote Sky Crash. It's also the area that Vince first took me to.

Subsequent info has allowed us to pin the location down with greater precision, particularly Halt's description of looking across the field to the farmhouse with the light almost in line. The photo of the landing site discovered and published by Georgina further confirmed that the site was close to the forest edge (daylight visible between the trees).

As a matter of interest, the Wikipedia entry on Rendlesham is quite good
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_Incident
and any new developments will doubtless appear there.

Ian

[puddlepirate]

Andy wrote: '.....and what was relayed to me was that he (the father) saw 'scorch marks' three off them, on the ground, not in the trees. It was also commented that judging by the 'Scorch marks' 'something had purposefully landed, as opposed to crashed' ? '

Andy,
Do you happen to know if they said the scorch marks were in one area and close together, i.e. a group of three smallish scorch marks perhaps made by a single machine fitted with three rocket motors or were there three separate scorched areas, i.e. three larger areas of scorch marks, not in any particlar pattern but near to each other, that might have been made by something very hot hitting the ground or small(ish) fires. Also, were the scorch marks in the same location as the damaged trees?

[AdrianF]

The local paper would have reported any yachts / vessels in distress, SAR events or lifeboat launches so checking their archive could be worthwhile.

I checked the local papers last year, at the Ipswich Public Records Office on Bramford Road. I didn't go through the papers looking for reports of sea rescues, just looking for any reports of unusual lights/sightings. The only reports between Christmas and into January ( I think I went up to the end of January ) were those on the 27th December, in both the Evening Star and the EADT. The reports were identical in both papers, and explain that the source of the UFO flap that had been reported, was caused by the fireball on the 26th.

The only thing slightly strange about this, is that the newspapers were not printed Christmas Day and Boxing Day, so no previous reports of UFOs would have appeared locally. But, I presume, that this statement was put out by West Drayton, in response to the UFO sightings across southern England that week.

Adrian

[Observer]

Andy
I believe you, but as you are aware there is a lot of myth attached to this incident which sadly is growing by the day. Its up to us to seperate the myth from fact. Easier said than done.

I am almost convinced that the 'little' red light that Halt first mentioned on his tape was a USAF issued torch fitted with a red filter over the lens. This was being Shone towards Halt probably from a distance of about 20/30 metres. If you saw this in a very dark forest at night amongst the trees you would be hard pressed to come up with an explanation from your standpoint. Halt also mentioned that the light had a sort of eye in the centre. If you focus these torches to a wider angle beam which you could on those torches, you get a dead spot in the middle. The red lense would emphasise this and i think this is what Halt saw.

My other guess is that the person holding the torch was 'guarding' some thing. From information i got from an ex USAF friend, when the red filter was fitted and the torch shone at you, it meant stop, do not approach.

The only man made device to my knowledge that could hover over those woods for that length of time and make little noise, perhaps a humming noise from its electric motors and have different coloured NAV lights on it is an airship, and they were around in those days.
Did the airship winch said object up out of the forest as witnessed by Halt and others?
Was this the large object seen over the forest with lights by the duty crew in the Bentwaters control tower?

Far fetched i know but feasable.
Obs

[Observer]

As a follow on to my last post, i believe that there were USAF airmen [not sure of rank or dept] in the forest prior to Halt's involvement and they were trying to deal with an 'incident' on the quiet, but got found out.
Also Halt said on tape that the red light got larger and an eye appeared in the middle, that to me says it was when the beam was focussed on to wide angle, on wide angle the red light would look much larger.
Halt also said it was moving towards them, that's simply the person holding the torch moving towards them. Lets face it at that moment no body knew the identity of the other and Halt would not associate at that time that a human was holding the source of light especially in a dark woods at night because he could not see. I'm sure he found out later.
Obs

[robert]

Hate to state the obvious Obs but if this is the second night of 'sightings' how would you equate this with the first night.

Would you say that the second nights 'search' was as a result of the first nights 'landing'?

Not being smart Obs., just want some reaction to your Theory in relation to the Two nights.

Cheers

Robert

[Observer]

Hey, its only a theory, but the first night was the start of the clean up operation and the second night is when Halt and co burst in on it so to speak and a covert clean up was no longer covert. The incident or landing if you wish was before the 3 nights in question.

[puddlepirate]

I'm right with Obs on this one......

Night 1. Operation Spick and Span, i.e. clean-up starts
Night 2. Halt inadvertently stumbles into 'Spick 'n Span'
Night 3. Who knows what.....area secured, guards posted, road block....

Incidentally, who ordered everyone into the forest? Halt didn't - he was called out of a social function and when he arrived with his squad, many personnel were already there, so who did? Who ordered Lt Englund and everyone else to go get lightalls and meet up in the forest? And why? Odd lights do not merit anything between 40 to 70 personnel with lightalls running around a foreign forest in the dead of night - and you don't go looking for odd lights with floodlights....and why the geiger counter? Why would you need that if you are looking for odd lights? Not something you keep in your pocket, surely? And given Halt and co covered a good couple of miles over unknown territory in the dark, how did they find their way back? There is no mention of maps (why would they have taken maps with them anyway) so unless the forest was lit up like a funfair and was an easily seen point of reference, how would they know where they were? It's quite hard to find your way in the dark...bad enough if you are familar with the area.

[Observer]

Some good points there Puddle, and nice to see some logic back in the discussions.
You raise many questions that have bever been answered properly or a convincing answer given.
Obs

[Observer]

An SP went to see Halt [because he knew where he was] at the Officers Christmas party.
He said to Halt "It's back", Halt said "what's back"?
This undoubtedly says Halt knew nothing of the first night but when he arrived in the forest on the second night, there were already people there, so who gave them permission to go off base into the forest before Halt was even told or arrived? Halt's first observation as he and his colleagues got deeper into the forest was a small bright red light shining at him/them from the dense darkness of the forest, the rest i explained in an earlier post.
Obs

[John Burroughs]

I don't have much time on the computer but I have to say your wrong about seveal things. First of all Halt new about the first night he read the report on the mourning of the 26th. And trust me when I tell you the red light was not a flashlight plus also remember Halt stated one object broke into 3 lights and then disapeared. Guys it was not the lighthouse or a guy with a flashlight. Plus I understand the part of things slowing down when you are frighten I had that happen to me when I almost got run over by a car but what ever we got close to did this. It happened to me on both nights. MSgt ball was the one who first said it looked like a grid search but unless we had some kind of blue tranparent Helicopter it was not a Helo. I have been around Helo and this was not a Helo. Also the shift commander LT England would have been the one to give permission.

[robert]

With John B on this one . Too many things left out of the equation as John says for a neat fit.

Noise, or lack of, is a problem for a conventional explanation as is the vertical movement and then the disappearance at a rate of Knots that would have your average Pilot grabbing for his G suit and then some.

The lights in the sky observed by Col. halt and the splitting into 5 doesn't add to the conventional pot.

If we stick in a laser or two or some EM experiment then it's just as plausible as any other theory. Probably easier in fact because we would have to guess at the capabilities and thus we can imagine all scenarios fitting in to a prototype EM weapon, holographic or Laser experiment. But any of these would take us back to a case of complete conjecture apart from the effects seen and felt by our Witnesses. Here we have some tangible evidence of there experience and a clue to their reaction to what I would call a very real but still elusive phenomena.

SDI wasn't up and running at the Time so you could probably rule out Satellite lasers and the Space program with the Columbia shuttle delivering payloads was only in its infancy so no experiments the Military could concieve of would be up and running at that stage. There are reports of using lasers from Satellites to interfere with guidance systems as there are with the use of Beam technology to achieve the same objective but again this would not explain all the varied occurences on the nights in question.

While we are still in the realms of plausability you might like to look at this BBC web site. Most of it well known but the rider at the bottom is interesting.

Robert

http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/dont_miss/ ... ford.shtml

The Americans also made use of Orford Ness. In 1968 work started on the top secret Anglo-American System441A ‘over-the-horizon’ radar project, finally codenamed ‘Cobra Mist’.

The project was set up to carry out several missions, including detection and tracking of aircraft, detection of missile and satellite vehicle launchings, fulfilling intelligence requirements and providing a research and development test bed.

An integral part of this project were 18 strings of antennae in the shape of a large open fan. The fan was accompanied by a large aluminium ‘ground net’ covering some 80 acres. Stories grew up around ‘Cobra Mist’, claiming the research was centred on UFOs.

[Observer]

John & Robert
Its only a theory, and as you know we have presented a few. There is evidence that backs many of our theories but i'm honest enough to admit that none are any where near conclusive. Some are more convincing than others but thats about as far as they go.
As for beam weapons or similar electronic devices, I think any of these would be in the very early stages of development in 1980 and thus not usable in the field. In fact there is no record of such devices having been used in Iraq or any modern day theatre of war.
I cannot see how Cobra Mist is/was connected to this incident as it was dismantled and scrapped several years before the RFI. The bit about UFO's and CM was picked up by the BBC from local gossip and a few Ufologists who like to put conspiricy theories to any thing unusual. Cobra Mist was a good target for them.
Puddle has raised an interesting point where he said that a lot of the scientists and engineers once employed at the CM site on Orfordness were re deployed at Bentwaters, one wonders doing what??
Cobra Mist was closed so abruptly that many of the staff had a sit in strike in protest. Perhaps their re deployment to BW was just to keep them happy doing other work as a good will gesture, but i doubt we will ever know the real reason.
Its good that you confirmed the audio tapes were sent to Germany and that does throw a different light on a certain light house theory!
Obs