CIA using us

[Observer]

Hi redsocks

Graham Haynes of the Bentwaters aviation [Cold War museum] may well be able to help us out on this. Or go into USAF archives under the US freedom of information act.

Observer

[ghaynes]

Hi redsocks

Graham Haynes of the Bentwaters aviation [Cold War museum] may well be able to help us out on this. Or go into USAF archives under the US freedom of information act.

Observer

I'm not really that interested in the 'domestic' side of life at the Twin-Bases. My fortee is the operational side i.e. aircraft and weapons.
We don't cover the domestic side in the museum either. Joe Public only seem to be interested in planes.
Regards.

Graham

[Deep Purple]

All very interesting, so what do you think happened did some top secret British research project go a bit wrong and everyone was called into the woods and the rest is history?
Could it have been an experimental non lethal weapon test carried out covertly, by US/BRITs/SOVIETS? or an early UAV test?
Certainly Larry Warren living in the UK would put a huge big buffer between him and US justice if he breached their official secrets ACT.
Given the nature of what has happend I suspect they would just proceed with a disinformation campaign aginst Larry rather than arrest and extradition which would give the whole story fantastic credibility which is what we could be seeing ( further revalations from HALT)

[puddlepirate]

aFrom the majority of posts on the Bentwaters friends forum it would appear that that most personnel posted to the base enjoyed their time there. The unfortunate suicide stands out for a couple of reasons:

a. given the number of personnel passing through the base over the years, it is probably within the average. Not everyone mixes well and some find it hard being away from home, especially those who are 'loners' to some extent. This can be compounded if a man is dumped by a girlffiend or a wife back home. Also, the confidential nature of the work can mean that if there is a problem is related to that work then they cannot talk about it to anyone other than those they work directly with. If it is not work related then there is a welfare system, chaplin etc but not everyone wants to share their problems as it can be seen as a sign of weakness. Whilst serving with the Royal Navy in Hong Kong we had one guy go 'over the wall' because he wasn't allowed compassionate leave to return to the UK to sort out a domestic problem. He was quickly caught and received six months 'second class' (which means he was disrated and regarded as the lowest of the low. He'd have done better to have whacked the skipper on the nose and serve 3 mths in DQ's). This chap didn't commit suicide but it shows how men can be effected by personal circumstances. Also, there is an accommodation block in one UK RN barracks referred to as 'the suicide block'. It [allegedly] got its name because one or possibly two ratings jumped out of the windows. If you visit the BBC News website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news) you will see a story about the closure of Deepcut (Army) Barracks. This particular barracks is infamous for the number of suicides (four I think) amongst the squaddies stationed there. Thus suicides 'in the mob' are not exactly uncommon so I shouldn't attach too much importance to this. There is one reason that in 1980, might have caused guys to commit suicide - and I stress that I am in no way implying that this was the case here - and that was because they were gay. Certainly in the British forces in 1980 to be found out to be gay was the end of your service career, no matter how good you were. Obviously there have been gays in the forces since the year dot. Everyone knew who they were and most were left to get on with it, provided they behaved in an appropriate manner. If you watch a video of the Royal Yacht paying off you will see three badge AB's holding hands and crying. Enough said! I suspect the same must have been true of US forces. Today, of course, it is no longer a 'problem' and gays have nothing to fear in that respect.

b. What is odd, however, is the seemingly undue delay in returning the body and that [allegedly] there was no investigation nor [allegedly] was any reason for the young man's action ever given, nor [allegedly] was the manner in which he committed suicide revealed (at least, I don't think it said anything about that in the post). It would also seem that the event coincided with the Rendlesham incident - but this could be pure coincidence. As we know nothing about the circumstances of this unfortunate event, out of respect to the family of this young man and the families of others at the twin bases who took their own lives, we should be very careful indeed before we go further down this route.

[Deep Purple]

Presumably for all the suicides on the bases during this period there would have been a UK coroners inquest, and documentation would have had to have been brought before the court to suggest why the poor your person had committted suicide as opposed to unexplained death. Bearing in mind the families of US personnel are protective I would suspect if they were not given adequate explanation of the circumstances of their loved ones tragic death, I think all hell would have broken loose well before now.
For a young servicemen the message from the "men in black" would surely be do your duty son and forget what you saw and you will be OK. Having dealt with suicides previously I think the lynch pin would far more likely to be girlfriends/ boyfriends/ remoteness from family/general bullying/ failure in the family eye. For most service personnel if they were told they didnt see something it wouldnt be that much of a problem, a bit like the mafia!

[puddlepirate]

Hi Deep Purple

One would expect that to be the case but I'm not so sure a UK coroner would have been involved. There have been many instances of US service personnel committing offences on UK soil but being exempt from UK law. Everything from traffic violations to at least one murder (near Liverpool I think). All that seems to happen is that the person involved is quickly returned Stateside with [apparently] very little action being taken against them. It is my understanding that the bases were, effectively, US territory. However, I'm happy to be corrected if someone knows better....

Whilst surfing the web some time ago, I happened upon some info regarding such incidents. I'm pretty sure a search on Google will provide more details.

[puddlepirate]

Hi Deep Purple

This makes for a bit of heavy reading but if you scroll through you will come across a couple of pages that explain the complexities of bringing US service personnel to book under UK law....it is not easy to do and whilst there are supposed to be various treaties in place, how these are interpreted is often left to a US liaison officer.....

http://books.google.com/books?id=JVW8d2 ... 8#PPA47,M1

[puddlepirate]

Hi Deep Purple

This makes for a bit of heavy reading but if you scroll through you will come across a couple of pages that explain the complexities of bringing US service personnel to book under UK law....it is not easy to do and whilst there are supposed to be various treaties in place, how these are interpreted is often left to a US liaison officer.....

http://books.google.com/books?id=JVW8d2 ... 8#PPA47,M1

[Observer]

Hi all

We must be careful concerning this subject. All i can say is that i went on base at Bentwaters and Woodbridge many times over the years i lived there and mixed freely with many of the USAF families who were generous and very hospitable people. They were very friendly towards us Brits and a lot liked the posting. Some married British girls and quite a few stayed after de mob. However, there were a few that hated it and their wives thought the whole area quite 'spooky' for whatever reason.

I noticed that the majority and especially the ex NAM Vets were very 'red neck' types and i suspect that a 'gay' would have a pretty tough time.
There was other things going on that i would rather not mention.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi all,

I hear what your are saying about guys commiting suicide for reasons stated gay,lonely,relationship breakups etc but with the guy mentioned he's family was given no reason for he's death from what they say nothing was said to them,doesent that strike you as a little odd?? just another thing about the care of service personnels mental heath on Bentwaters,next to the hospital which was opposite the gym there was a mental health unit which has since been knocked down,I remember discusseing this with my mate who's currently serving when we took a look there some time ago,I remember him saying that this was rare on a USAF base for there to be such a facility he had never seen this before and said people with those sort of issues were dealt with off base,I remember him going on to say that nobody made mental heath an issue for the reasons stated by Puddlepirate they didnt want to lose face.1)Was there such a high rate of mental heath issues on Bentwaters that the USAF saw fit to put a mental heath facility on base?2) It seems they did not want any non military body dealing with the airmen,but why?.

Redsocks

[redsocks]

Hi All

Something you may be interested in,theres a program on tv here called about anglia and it was reported yesterday that on tuesday morning a harrier from RAF Wittering lost a practise bomb on route to a bombing range on the wash.Apparently it weights about 3 kilos is about one and a half foot long and carries a small amout of explosive charge primarily to dictate how close it comes to its target.They had an ex RAF pilot interviewed on there who said that in he's 30 years service with the RAF he has know about bombs dropping of aircraft about a dozen times.This of course adds reason to our theory, I really thought it didnt happen that much and half a dozen times in 30 years obviously means its rare..but it does indeed happen.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi redsocks

I have seen that interview. It was and still is fairly rare both in the RAF and Fleet air arm for bombs/missiles to be accidentally dropped.
On a more serious note, the US government have now addmitted that between the end of WW-2 and today, over 68 nuclear weapons have been accidentally dropped in various locations not only on US soil but in other places round the world.

The Russians made a claim some years ago that the USAF accidentally dropped a Nuke in the Northern Pacific which acctually detonated.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi Observer,

Interesting stuff.again was it possible that some serious armoury was accidently dropped off into the forest on approuch to woodbrige airfield,that would figure out for the mass concern from the USAF at the time.The more I think about the whole Rendlesham thing the more this theory figures...but its just the proof we need!.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi redsocks

Just a follow on from my last post. I know that a few of us have considered that this incident could have been some munition dropped into the forest, may be by accident and that includes a N/weapon.

From the descriptions given by many witnesses of the shape of the 'object' in the woods and how it sat on 3 legs/feet really does not fit in with the design of a N/weapon.
Also, would a dropped 'munition' have flashing lights all over it?
OK, it might be, but pictures of most N/weapons and missiles are freely available on the Net and none look remotely like it.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi Observer,

I go back to what I have said before that I believe the ARRS prank happened but this was used for a cover story,possibly a cover story for something serious falling of an aircraft on approuch or something else but not for me a UFO.I really believe that something did fall of an aircraft and they wanted to and still want to keep the whole thing quiet.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi redsocks

I go along with that.

My personal belief is that we have narrowed this incident down to 2 possible explanations.

1: It was a man made experiment/test
2: It was an accident.

There is no other feasable alternative.

So now, put your thinking caps on, sift through the statements again and take the remarks by those involved more on face value. Don't try to manipulate the evidence to fit the crime.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi Silvertop and welcome.

That was a really interesting incounter you had with Larry Warren and thanks for sharing it.I said earlier on a post that Warren could still have some involvment with the military and its possible he's book etc could be a red herring for the events that happened at Rendlesham.I hope he has no involvment because like I said he could be the key to this whole thing,Its weird would they use somebody to act out going against the military might when he's working for them?..I suppose so we are talking about the US gov here.Sad thing is If its true and Warren is still involved with the military it will make it harder to come up with the real facts.

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi silvertop

Please do join in, the more the merrier.
Have you read Larry Warrens book, Left At East Gate? It is extremely interesting but due to some of his, shall we say out landish claims, has made him in my eyes an 'unsafe' witness. Quite a few of us think he has made some useful comment to our investigation but that's only after you get rid of the top layer of embellishment.

I don't doubt Larry saw some thing but we have to decide who's telling the truth as some say he was not there and others just don't know.

We are also surprised that he has made no attempt to enter into this forum which must be the major site on the Net for this incident.

Observer

[redsocks]

[quote="Observer"]Hi redsocks

I go along with that.

My personal belief is that we have narrowed this incident down to 2 possible explanations.

1: It was a man made experiment/test
2: It was an accident.

There is no other feasable alternative.

So now, put your thinking caps on, sift through the statements again and take the remarks by those involved more on face value. Don't try to manipulate the evidence to fit the crime.

Observer[/quote]

Does anyone else go along with this theory? If the forum agree we are going in the right direction we can work together to solve this crazy mystery.maybe a poll admin.
Top candidates are;
1) UFO
2)ARRS prank (for me this happened but was used as a cover)
3)missile/object falling of an aircraft(accident)
4)man made experiment/test
5)other

Redsocks

[Observer]

Hi redsocks

I go along with your list 1-5 and i think one or more of us have been very close to the answer which lies some where in the list but have not realised it. I can imagine some one monitoring this forum who knows what happened and when one of us got a bit too close to the truth, there was panick in the office.

Not so sure about a poll though, but if there is one i will vote.

Observer