Old scraps of info - do they mean anything more now?

[puddlepirate]

It has been said before that once everything probable has been investigated and disproved then whatever is left, no matter how improbable, has to be the truth. And so it is with the hoax.

Each and every theory that has been presented on this forum, not just mine but everyone else's as well, from the lighthouse to the orbiter and all those in between, have been disproved.

Regarding some kind of pyschops experiment involving mind control etc: to conduct such an experiment in the forest is simply not practical. Experiments are conducted in controlled environments where the reaction of the subjects of the experiment can be closely observed and monitored. There is usually a benchmark or control to establish 'normal' or standard behaviours against which the changed behaviours are measured. The forest was not a controlled environment and the activity was such that a control would be almost impossible to establish. If the events of each night had been absolutely identical in every respect, then that could be challenged but they weren't. They were different.

Therefore, what we have left is the highly improbable - but possibly the truth. Like it or not the evidence, such as it is, points to the fact that nothing of any real significance happened in the forest. No civilian witnesses, no noise, nothing observed by anyone other then the four of five key players. no police involvement, nothing on radar, no reports to the local press, nobody saw anything untoward - and the mainstream media have no interest in the incident at all.

That nobody else saw anything is simply not possible with the amount of activity that, allegedly, took place. It is claimed that between 70 and 80 USAF personnel were in the forest with floodlights and vehicles, that at least one road block was set up, that the events were filmed, that there were bright lights in the sky, that at least one beam of light shone down down on the WSA, a craft crashed down through the trees leaving indentations on the forest floor, another craft landed the field emitting light, a craft moved through the trees then took off at high speed and so forth.....yet not one person, apart from those known to us, either USAF or civilian has ever come forward to provide any evidence to back up any of this.

The people living in Folly House, right at the end of the Woodbridge runway appear not to have seen anything, nor did anyone else living nearby. Nor, astonishingly did the farmer, yet he had a whole team of USAF personnel charging across his land, right outside his house, in the middle of the night. Farmers don't leave their animals unattended; cows have to be milked, animals have to be fed etc so somebody must have been in residence.

Therefore, rightly or wrongly, I strongly believe this was a hoax started by a couple of bored airmen who thought it a great idea to play joke on their mates in the SP. It all got out of hand once Halt was involved and for various reasons, probably to save ridicule and embarrassment, nobody can now back down. It is also my view that, allegedly, once it became public, rather than make the USAF look foolish, Halt (with authorisation) created a memo and a tape to back up a UFO story. I would image there were reprimands but it was necessary to protect the reputation of the USAF and the Rendlesham Incident was created as a cover story.

I really hope someone can prove me wrong - but don't just say...'That's a complete load of BS'....please come back with 'That's a complete load of BS because .......' and provide EVIDENCE to back up what you say. Not hearsay but hard evidence that can be verified.

[John Burroughs]

Were you out there? No so I think its great that you can call me a liar but you were not even there. There were Civ people who saw lights that night but the funney thing is why say anything because we have to deal with people like you who say it was a hoax or the light house which is was not. All most everybody involved talks about seeing strange lights flying around in the sky and several people saw the beams comming down to the ground. Larry Warren got the story out it was not any of the main people involved running around looking for money or fame. And guess what we have had to live with not knowing what happened to us and listening to people like you playing arm chair quaterback and telling me what happened. How do you know it was not a controlled test? You don't period and as far as the witness go a Civ family from what I was told was moved shortly after the incident happened. Plus when CNN was conducting there investigation they were told by the Air Force they stood by Halts memo that somthing happened. And why all of the missing documents and the British Mod holding back all of there documents for so long. Why would the Commander of 3rd Air Force show up per the MOD to collect the evidence. There is so much more but I have said a enough for now if I come over I would gladley meet you face to face and anybody else who likes to play arm chair quaterback about what happened to me! The idiot James Megha who they love to put on did a radio show with me years ago and he went down in flames. The truth is out there and it ties into what the government was involved in at the time........

[puddlepirate]

Hi JB. Fair comment. I wasn't there. I would love to meet up and get to the bottom of this, as would many of the contributors to this forum.

A question. I served over 12yrs with the Royal Naval Reserve. During my periods of full time service with the Royal Navy, I was sent all over the place - Italy, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, States etc....I was only at the these places for a very short time, on exercise mostly but can remember quite a bit about the places we used to go when off watch....the Tennis Hotel just up the track from the NSA just outside Agnano, Italy. the Fox and Dogs, Penny's Disco, Hole in the Wall disco in Gib; Makatis, the Bull and Bear, the Horse and Groom and of course, Mad Dogs in HK; the Naked I cabaret in Boston - the cherished Diamond Lil's plus the Star, Commodores, Boobs, Fiesta etc in Plymouth. Joanna's disco (aka the Royal Naval Academy of Dance - now sadly closed), Beasty's, the Mighty Fine (now the Albany), The Ship Anson, the Ship Leopard and so forth in Portsmouth, Jackie O's in Kircaldy, Night Magic in Dunfermline....the list is quite long.

You were in the USAF at the Twin Bases - you guys like a run ashore as much as anyone. Where did you guys drink or if you didn't drink, where did you like to visit the most? Did you ever go down to London - I guess you must have done being that close. Or over to France perhaps, it's not far. Tell us a bit about your time in the UK and what you and your mates enjoyed about being over here.

[John Burroughs]

Yes I traveled. I lived off base in Ipwich and I went to the local pubs and thats where I came to know what 7 pocket pool is. I didnot like the fact the Pubs closed so early or the high exchange rate Went to Paris once and I visted Londan a few times.Went on several Pub crawels and even saw styx in concert. I really enjoyed Scotland allot I had a girlfriend who worked for a Candian airlines and she flew into Scotland so I hitched up there several times and realley enjoyed myself.

[Observer]

Hi Puddlepirate

I'm not convinced that this was a hoax, the only thing i am convinced about is that the UFO story was a hoax to cover some thing up.

Message to John Burroughs, You really will have to give us some more info or at least point us in the right direction.

No theory aired on this forum has ever been proved or disproved and if any of them were presented in a court of law, they would all be thrown out for lack of evidence.

Some of the evidence fits many of the theories but all stop short of making a particular theory conclusive, Hoax, Apollo, Stealth, light house,
Nuclear weapon, chemical weapon Etc Etc. If its not conclusive its not proven.

Observer

[redsocks]

Hi all,

You know when a guy says it wasnt a hoax we have to take he's word on it,we are fustrated JB is just as fustrated.Lets be patient here and look at things from a different angle.I think we have exhausted all the thoerys but one is correct.Remember we can only get to the bottom of this with JB's help,he is after all the only airmen key witness who has come on here and wants to work with us,I think getting John here in the UK and retracing the events of that night and letting John say he's piece will be a big plus,its so much harder via short forum text.

Redsocks

[slipX]

Observer does it really follow that a 'UFO incident' would be a perfect cover story?. I can't think of anything more designed to attract attention to the incident.

The best cover story would be a hoax of some kind. It's mundane and readily believable to people looking for an easy explanation. Even more so than the generally discredited lighthouse theory.

From the premise that the event that was something outside the realm of the 'reality based community' could we not theorize (take a deep breath here folks) that the visitor(s) were extra-dimensional?

Bear in mind that Penniston under hypnosis said when asked who he thought 'they' were said "I think they're us'.

Also Georgina Bruni in her book writes of Gen Gordon Williams musings on the incident when he commented that supposing 'they could cut through time'. A comment Georgina thought was intriguing given that he was a man who wasn't giving much away to her during her interview with him.

I'm not proposing that extra-dimensional time travellers are the source of the incident. I just think that the many 'rational' explanations as much as I'd like to believe them are a bit desperate in their need to establish a reason we can all be comfortable with.

[Observer]

Hi slipX

Thanks for your contribution and a valid point.
This forum was set up originally as a 'UFO' investigation, because that's what is was, an unexplanable incident.

We have all offered up theories that are mostly based round a man made incident. I have to admit that a lot of our theories are in a way just clutching at straws.

Larry Warren was the only person to my recollection that mentioned holographic looking entities in the field and he said that Col Williams appeared to be talking to them. Larry also said that all this was being filmed which implies that there was a film unit at hand and if they were at hand means that this event could have been expected.

I am quite perplexed about the remark that a 'spare part' was obtained from Germany for these entities and their craft. I would love to know what it was. "Excuse me mate, we need a new fan belt and i think a Merc one fits"?

My only contention over this theory is, if we had been visited by some thing from another dimension with all their high technology, surely they don't crash land into a forest.

Maybe it was a craft and occupants from another dimension, but that is going to be even harder to prove than a man made incident.

Observer

[puddlepirate]

As we have one contributor on the forum who was actually there, perhaps we should focus on what JB saw and forget the other witness statements for now.

Penniston claims to have seen a craft, walked round it, touched it - but JB says there were only lights. Therefore, to avoid going off at tangents and confusing things even more, let's stay with JB and work our way through his evidence.

JB - for the sake of clarity and to remove any ambiguity, doubts, misunderstandings etc., could you talk us through the events that took place on the first night - the night you went into the forest with Penniston and Cabansang, with particular emphasis what you saw and the location of what you saw.

Thanks

[Observer]

Hi puddlep

I go along with that, but i also think that all the witnesses have a point to make and although they differ on some of the descriptions, they are all basically singing from the same hymn sheet. This we must keep on board.

Yes, there are one or two that possibly deserve more of our attention than others but it would be bad practice to ignore the rest.

I personally believed from the start that most of these guys who were there and who all experienced a phenomena are telling us what happened and each had their own perspective. This is an extremely common thing for humans to do. Take my word on it. For example, when i investigated a Police vehicle 'Prang' i would ofetn get at least 4 different statements, 2 public and 2 Coppers, they often conflicted.

It is probably true that over the years some have added on or over embellished their story. Its human nature.
Stick to first reports and sketches.

Obs

[Observer]

Hi all
As a follow on from my last post, where i said take on board what these guys in the forest saw and felt, now look at the various web sites about
ELECTROMAGNETIC MIND CONTROL WEAPONS.

Obs

[Observer]

Hi silvertop

Yes i know its sorting the crap from the real stuff and its looks like a mine field to sift through.

Obs.

[John Burroughs]

Observer
The reason I have been asking questions about the area and testing is for that reason. Also that fact that some else said there was talk of building a underground complex in 1976. Plus there is one more factor that I won't go into anymore detail other than there is signs that there could have been somekind of vortex opened up and as crazey as its sounds somthing from the furture came through. But by saying that its not that I beleive it happened that way its just that there are signs that could have happened But for that to have happen there has to be some kind of base that would have created that effect. Also I not sure what post I read this in but somebody said that General Williams had somthing to say along those lines which I would find very interesting. The fact that strange things have been going on at Bentwaters for years leeds me to beleive that some kind of testing is going on. It would be very interesting to go out and talk to people who lived in those areas and see what they have to say!!!

[Observer]

Jenny Randles suggested this in her book SKY CRASH, but recently for undisclosed reasons she announced that, i quote, "I no longer believe that any thing of significance happened at Rendlesham Forest", un quote.

Its a mystery to me why she researched and write a book which made her some money then turned round and said that.

John, i hear what you are saying but this stuff is on the edge of 'paranormal' and although i'm open minded, i cannot get my head round that subject, mainly because the subject is full of 'cranks' etc.

Obs

[Observer]

Just to add a bit more

There was/is a conspiricy theory that the US pulled out of the twin bases, not as defence cuts but because of the weird phenomena in the area and they didn't want to risk flight operations etc. I don't believe this but i know people that do.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

It is but here lies the problem when you mess with things crazey things happen. This is a great forum for throwing out ideas but the only way you can prove or disprove is to go back out there and look around and talk to the people that live in the area. Not about ufo but about what has been going on in the last 30-40 years. Plus I have ready that many kinds of experments went on in England over the years including test on the general public. And the interesting ting about this case is both governments put the on each other to explain but never really gave a straight answer to include it didnot have any Defence implication which drove the Late Lord Hill Norton nuts. Allot of important people to include a couple of US Sentors have looked into this and have never ever stated what they found out which leads me to beleive it involved some kind of testing with the UFO cover that Warren started being allowed to continue.

[Observer]

Trouble is John, its who do we talk to?
Local people will only be guessing like we are and the Government isn't going to say. Local Police i doubt will know, so it has to be the scientific community, but where do you start and in what department. They wouldn't tell any way.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Anybody who will talk. You talk to as many people as you can and if there is a pattern you take it from there. Somewhere in that area there has to be some kind of test facility and the people who work there do go out and might even let somthing slip.

[John Burroughs]

Speaking of Coast to Coast I just looked at there site. This week they had a guy on by the name of Jacques Valle read is Bio and he stated Bentwaters looked like a Military Psychologial war experiment. Does anybody have streame link and if they do can they listen to why he stated that. I am going to try and contact him

[John Burroughs]

Let me know what he has to say!!!