Skip Buran's Comments & Introduction [Merged]

General discussion about the Rendlesham forest incident

Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby stephan » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:11 pm

IanR wrote:The point where Penniston reports they had gone past the (non-existent) object "and were looking a a marker beacon that was in the same direction as the other lights" was where he realized his mistake. From that moment the fix was in, as they say in the US, and we are still dealing with the consequences.


... and now it seems that Mr. Penniston accuses the UFO community of misinterpreting his alleged sighting of the object:

I wont collaborate a UFO either.... it is the "I want to believe" people out there that cause the most damage to this incident... so it is best to stay away from waffle..


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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby John Burroughs » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:36 pm

Ian please post all of Armold statement from 97 for all to see! How come you have not posted the exchange that Conde and I had last night. Bring Armold on here have him answer question! I will be happy to have a go at him. And a UFO is Ailien in nature only not a craft of unknow orgin. Have Buren and Armold come on not just take bit and pieces of what they have to say. You should not ignor what they have to say have them come on the forum what you should not do is take bits and pieces of what they have to say. Have them face the music like we have. Ignis the little man syndrome you have is really starting to get out of control!! Get them on here please I'm waiting!!!
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby Frank » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:43 pm

IanR wrote:From that moment the fix was in, as they say in the US, and we are still dealing with the consequences.


Yeah, seems like a real smart move. You misidentify a lighthouse and think "hey, let's say we saw a UFO. That will get us off the hook!". Sounds really smart if you are working for the USAF.
(A bit like preventing a speed ticket by telling the police officer you just murdered someone... It works, but does it help?)

Could it be that you thought the fix was in after talking to Vince, Ian? And that we are dealing with the consequences of that quick judgement now?
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby John Burroughs » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:59 pm

Listen Jim and I never said anything to anybody until after Warren started talking Halts memo and tape came out. We never tried to cover up anything we reported what happened and made statements. Halts tape is real time but thats not go enough again in Conrads letter to Clarke he clearly states he is not sure what happened to us. Listen to Burren interview he did for coast he does not say there nothing happened! And now Ian big witness Conde has crashed and burned and if you look at armolds full statements he has made he is also in a full nose dive. Have them come on here on a idependent site so all can take there best shots. See who is licking there boots if they do see who has not put out all of what they have all said over the years. I'm waiting!!!
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby stephan » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:56 pm

Frank, you totally missed the point. If you look back on page one and read again you'll realize that. As for the lighthouse it is mentioned several times by the witnesses. So it's not about the lighthouse at this point. It's about lights which Jim denominated as an mechanical object with ''strange lights'' *. All who heard that probably thought at that moment what that might be. And as we know they were later joking about it on the base. So when Jim realized it wasn't a ''strange object'' (whatever he thought it might have been) he simply went past it (''all of a sudden'') and ''changed topic''. But Buran was curious and asked him if he had been mistaken. Not knowing what to reply to that but knowing what it was he came up with no better response than: had you [Buran] seen the other lights you would know the difference.

* just to stress what happened before Jim had ''encountered'' the object (emphasis mine):

Buran wrote:SSgt Penniston also reported the strange lights. [...] Penniston said that he had never seen lights of this colour or nature in the area before [...] at one point SSgt Penniston stated that it was a definite mechanical object


and at the point at which he finally took a closer look:

Buran wrote:SSgt Penniston reported getting near the object and then all of a sudden said they had gone past it and were looking a a marker beacon that was in the same direction as the other lights.


source

as I said, it's only a hypothesis but as Ian said it actually makes sense. If you think you saw something very strange in the woods but upon closer inspection you realize what is was and you feel fooled by it will you openly admit it ? Especially when you know that a lot of your pals (this is the USAF we are talking about) will start making jokes about it later on... If so, you'll probably end up as the mock of the base.
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby IanR » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:04 pm

stephan wrote:... and now it seems that Mr. Penniston accuses the UFO community of misinterpreting his alleged sighting of the object:
I wont collaborate a UFO either.... it is the "I want to believe" people out there that cause the most damage to this incident... so it is best to stay away from waffle..


It's another dig at the ETHers, isn't it.

I love this guy's chutzpah. On Facebook he says " I know it will change the world...".

Well, we can be sure it won't be ET. But we can guess it will be this
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/officialdenial.htm
Thanks for pointing it out for us.

But will the fan club buy it?

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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby John Burroughs » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:06 pm

Wow Ian where have Jim and I ever said it was Ailiens. Why have you not posted Conde meltdown?
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby stephan » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:16 pm

John Burroughs wrote:Listen Jim and I never said anything to anybody until after Warren started talking Halts memo and tape came out. We never tried to cover up anything we reported what happened and made statements. Halts tape is real time but thats not go enough again in Conrads letter to Clarke he clearly states he is not sure what happened to us. Listen to Burren interview he did for coast he does not say there nothing happened!


sounds right. Nobody seems to know what happened to you and as long as you don't know for yourself what happened (you were the ''observer'') the topic will always be stuck at that point. But the fact that you don't know doesn't mean that it couldn't have been something mundane that you saw. And I think Jim knows what it actually was but he would not admit it because of fear of ridicule and meanwhile also because of fear of losing credibility in public. But you John, you probably really don't know what it was because you did not get close enough to it to realize what it was! And if that is so you cannot be blamed for that ... you cannot be blamed for not being able to identify what you saw!!
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby John Burroughs » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Stephan
Nice try with that last post we were there and can ID what it was not! Again come on over in December and meet us face to face were not afraid of anything. I hope all 3 of them come on. How come Conrad even states he is not sure what happened to us. He even brings up the dreaded word ET how come that is not being covered!! I'm curious why won't you cover all statements made not just certain one's? Ignis sent me a PM saying he was picked on when he was younger were you also picked on? All you want to do is attack certain things not look at everything thats posted...
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby stephan » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:36 pm

John, so what actually made you think that what you saw was NOT mundane ? Was it the colors, the intensity of the lights, the movements ? Can you absolutely exclude a mundane explanation ? I suppose that's what you're implying with your last post. What exactly was so unusual. Or is that something you can only show us in December, in the forest ? I'd like to come btw if I can afford to sacrifice a few days for the trip, I've never been to GB anyway, so the trip alone would be an adventure for me 8)

@ Ian, I had to look up the word chutzpah :P
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby John Burroughs » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:53 pm

Stephan
Take a look at what was just posted on the Conde Buran and Armold link! It was not mundane sorry you can't except that! come over if you like we promise you won't go away dissapointed!!
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby stephan » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:12 pm

John Burroughs wrote:Stephan
Take a look at what was just posted on the Conde Buran and Armold link! It was not mundane sorry you can't except that! come over if you like we promise you won't go away dissapointed!!


I just did. I think the best thing would be if K. Conde as well as Armold and Buran join and you guys discuss the topic in a (hopefully) civil manner.

I have no doubt that I won't be disappointed.
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby Frank » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:45 pm

stephan wrote:If you think you saw something very strange in the woods but upon closer inspection you realize what is was and you feel fooled by it will you openly admit it ?

Stephan, you're almost there: Imagine you see something moving in the forest, thinking it is something mechanical, but then loose sight of it and face a lighthouse beacon. The only thing you reported was that you were at 50 meters and identified it as a mechanical object. Let's even assume that you realize the beacon had you fooled.

Now what would be a clever next step as a USAF sgt who is supposed to be able to identify all types of aircraft? Remember: your career may depend on this.

stephan wrote:Especially when you know that a lot of your pals (this is the USAF we are talking about) will start making jokes about it later on... If so, you'll probably end up as the mock of the base.

That's right! So is it smart to report a 'craft of unknown origin' ? Of course not!! There are dozens of alternatives: 'probably some poachers' or 'maybe a farmer's vehicle in the woods that retreated' or 'maybe some peace protesters playing tricks on us' or 'I don't know but it left and seemed to be nothing serious'.

And what would happen next if you downplay it like that? It would be a non-event. You would have a few laughs about if and carry on. It would never lead to officers trying to persuade you to tell them what it was you saw.

THAT is the way you cover up a misidentification of a lighthouse in a USAF environment. ANYTHING but a 'craft of unknown origin' a.k.a. a UFO would do, and what would be REALLY stupid is to lead your pals into the woods searching for landing marks afterwards!

stephan wrote:as Ian said it actually makes sense.

So actually, it doesn't make any sense at all ...

These men saw something extraordinary and were not able to identify it. They were affected by it to the point that officers were persuading them to describe what they witnessed. They were send on a six day leave to recover from it. A memo was send to the MOD. This was a real event.
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Introduction [Lt. Col. Skip Buran]

Postby sburan » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:37 am

My name is Fred Buran. I have gone most of my life by the nickname "Skip". I was a 1st Lieutenant assigned to the 81st Tactical Fighter Wing from 1980-82. I was the Security Police Shift Commander assigned to "C" Flight the very first night anything out of the ordinary was reported as occurring in Rendlesham Forest between the "Twin Bases" of RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge.

I retired from the USAF in 1997. I had a pretty interesting career and will expound upon it to anyone who may be interested.

I do NOT believe there was ever a UFO involved in the incident. I do believe the witnesses I dispatched to the incident attempted to report factually what they had seen. However, I believe they were mistaken and possibly confused. They can best describe the events and their reporting of them.

I am dismayed that the story seems to have taken on dimensions never initially reported and very often assumes facts not shown by all the investigations. We can discuss more.

Skip Buran, Lt Col USAF (Retired)
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby sburan » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:50 am

OK, SSgt Penniston reported seeing what he thought was a mechanical object. He never said what it was. And MSgt J.D. Chandler, who was very close by, never saw or heard anything. And by his own admission, every time SSgt Penniston thought he was getting close to the "object", there was nothing there.

Folks, there was nothing in the forest that night but the lights (which have been explained) and maybe some SPs goofing around.

But I fully understand that I can change no one's beliefs about this.
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Re: Introduction

Postby AdrianF » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:02 am

Hi Fred

Welcome to the forum. I appreciate you taking the time to put your view forward and add perspective to the story, especially as you have nothing to gain, but stand to loose some of your spare time. I have one question. Did you interview or speak to Bud Steffens at any point after the 1st nights sortie into the forest? As he was riding along with John and was part of the initial reporting that something had come down in the woods, I find it odd that there is so little reference to his account, if any at all.

I've posted this in the other thread, just in case you don't get this one. Cheers
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby AdrianF » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:07 am

Hi Fred, Good to have your input. I posted this question in the welcome thread, but will repost it here also.. Did you interview or speak to Bud Steffens at any point after the 1st nights sortie into the forest? As he was riding along with John and was part of the initial reporting that something had come down in the woods, I find it odd that there is so little reference to his account, if any at all.
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby stephan » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:13 am

it does make sense, Frank. Like it or not.

and spinning the hypothesis wheel a bit further it does make even more sense:

we have three similar but differing witness statements. For example, when the ''object'' recedes they make the following, differing statements:

JB:
All three of us hit the ground and what ever it was started moving back towards the open field and after a minute or two we got up and moved into the trees and the lights moved out into the open field.

EC:
We were about 100 meters from the edge of the forrest when I saw a quick movement, it look visible for a moment . It look like it spun XXgXX left a quarter of a turn, then it was gone.

JP:
This is the closest point that I was near the object at any point. We then proceeded after it. It moved in a zig-zagging manner back through the woods, then lost sight of it.


When they were on their way back to the vehicle they had plenty of time to discuss the issue. According to JP it took them 45 min to return. Strangely, according to EC - and only according to him - they took different ways back:

JB:
After that we didn’t see anything and returned to the truck.

EC:
A1C Burroughs and I took a road, while SSgt Penningston walked straight back from where we came.

JP:
On the way back we encountered a blue streaking light to the left only lasting a few seconds. After 45 min walk, arrived at our vehicle.


So when they walked back they discussed what they had experienced. They figured that they would have to make reports on what they had seen and so they decided to ''tell a story'', they couldn't tell their superiors that all the strange lights they had seen where just the lighthouse and whatever mundane objects. They would have made an exhibition of themselves as they had went out there to investigate ''strange lights''. Ed figured it would be clever to say they walked different ways so that nobody would suspect them of fabricating stuff. John came up with the screaming woman and JP thought that the zig-zagging movement of the ''object'' would stun people.

Unfortunately the story got too long and too intricate so that when they finally wrote their statements their memory had meanwhile played tricks on them. Their stories which should have been congruent now differed.
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby Ignis Fatuus » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:09 pm

Bravo Zulu Stephan
I've got so much torque I can tear a hole in Time - Jeremy Clarkson
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Re: Comment from Skip Buran

Postby AgentAppleseed » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:23 pm

Nobody seems to know what happened to you and as long as you don't know for yourself what happened (you were the ''observer'') the topic will always be stuck at that point. But the fact that you don't know doesn't mean that it couldn't have been something mundane that you saw.

John, so what actually made you think that what you saw was NOT mundane ? Was it the colors, the intensity of the lights, the movements ? Can you absolutely exclude a mundane explanation ? I suppose that's what you're implying with your last post. What exactly was so unusual. Or is that something you can only show us in December, in the forest ?


The witnesses have already reported what happened to them. In doing so they have made their case as to why the objects could not have been mundane. There is nothing in the forest, or in the sky, that could account for what was seen, just as there is nothing in either of those places to account for the effects the objects produced on the witnesses, when they got close to those objects. What the witnesses claim, is that, in their experience, they know of nothing mundane or ordinary, that can be encountered or observed, on any particular day of the week, in Rendlesham forest, (nor anywhere else for that matter), that can account for what was seen, and what was felt by them, other than to say that there was an unknown object present in the forest that night. That is what they have said themselves, and no amount of reshuffling of quotations or extracts from statements, can change those basic facts of life

So when they walked back they discussed what they had experienced. They figured that they would have to make reports on what they had seen and so they decided to ''tell a story'', they couldn't tell their superiors that all the strange lights they had seen where just the lighthouse and whatever mundane objects. They would have made an exhibition of themselves as they had went out there to investigate ''strange lights''. Ed figured it would be clever to say they walked different ways so that nobody would suspect them of fabricating stuff. John came up with the screaming woman and JP thought that the zig-zagging movement of the ''object'' would stun people.

Unfortunately the story got too long and too intricate so that when they finally wrote their statements their memory had meanwhile played tricks on them. Their stories which should have been congruent now differed.


As you said Stephen, the above is merely hypothesis, and in your eyes, it is at best; conjecture, but only because It seems to makes sense to you, It does not make sense to others, myself included, and it is certainly NOT what the witnesses themselves have reported went on. What the witnesses reported went on, has not been disproven, and there is no evidence here to disprove that what the witnesses report was not factual or honest in any way whatsoever. You, and others have accused the witnesses of embellishing their witness statements, when in reality; what you are doing here, is the equivalent! Stick to the facts please!

Nobody seems to know what happened to you


By finally admitting that much, I presume its safe to say that you include yourself, Ian and Fatuus, aswell as the rest of us on this forum in that statement too! I agree with that, NOBODY but the witnesses themselves are in any position of authority whatsoever, to claim to know what exactly happened to them in the forest, or to claim any of what they say is true, or untrue, to any degree of a certainty at all.
At no time did I observe anything from the time I arrived at RAF Woodbridge.
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