New fillets of concrete..... For LW

[Observer]

It would be interesting to know who exactly told the fishermen not to fish in those waters between those dates mentioned.
Obs

[puddlepirate]

Thanks Andy / Robert for the new info.

I agree....more info on the fishing ban would be good. Perhaps the Dept of Ag and Fish might be able to help with this one because they would probably have instigated it. Somebody must have agreed the compensation, verified claims and written the cheques so there must be some admin paperwork somewhere (unless it has been routinely destroyed by now); Perhaps a local fisherman kept his receipt for some reason....

Also, Col 'Woody' Spring was at Edwards AFB sometime around Dec 1980. If you go here you will see a list of names of the NASA
astronauts:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_astronauts_by_name


Click on Col Sherwood Spring (obviously 'Woody') and it states (under 'Experience'):

Upon return, he received fixed wing training en route to a master's degree program with the University of Arizona in 1974. After a short tour at Edwards Air Force Base, California, as a flight test engineer, he attended the Navy Test Pilot School at Patuxent River, Maryland. He then returned to the Army's Flight Test Facility at Edwards AFB to complete 4 years as an experimental test pilot.

So by Dec 80 he was an experimental test pilot. I wonder what brought him to Rendlesham Forest? What do Army experimental test pilots do that USAF test pilots do not?

[puddlepirate]

Flippin' 'eck...no wonder they stopped fishing....take a look at this:

After WW2, Canisters containing approximately
17,000 tons of the organo phosphate sarin/tabun
nerve gases, 14,000 tons of phosgene, 120,000 tons
of mustard gas, as well as other waste munitions
(white phosphorus, etc.) and propellants (nitroglycerine)
were removed from Queniborough and other
ordnance/storage depots and were shipped out and
dumped in fault lines (Beaufort Dyke, etc.) under
the Irish and North Seas [57–60] (see Fig. 6) – areas
which have been intensively trawled for the provision
of fish protein for both human and livestock
consumption in the UK.
The gradual corrosion of these canisters by the
sea water or mechanical damage due to the laying
of cables on the seabed has lead to reports of munitions
leaking into the open seas over recent years
and fishermen suffering acute intoxications as a result
– indicating the start of a wide scale contamination
of the local marine food chain [58,59].
Furthermore, corroding canisters containing white
phosphorous/mustard gas munitions have been
washed up on Irish and UK beaches since the late
1980s [59]. (NB. Phosphorus represents one of the
nucleating agents that can seed metal-protein crystals
in biological tissues).
But UK government analyses of sea bed sediment
and the ‘edible’ portion of fish [60] has
been unable to identify the parent compounds
of the particular types of chemical munitions that
were dumped in these seas. It should however be
noted that this study failed to analyse the samples
for the specific metabolites that are known
to degrade via alkaline hydrolysis from these
types of chemical ordnance [60].

Source: http://www.markpurdey.com/pdf/metal_mic ... al_tse.pdf (the report makes very interesting reading - in particular see pages 10, 12 and table Fig 2).

RAF trucks were known to be going to and from the 'ness 'collecting railway sleepers'......could leaking white phosphorous weapons cause phosphorescence in the water? Were fishermen told to stop fishing because such canisters had been discovered?

[John Burroughs]

Puddlepirate
Can you take a closer look at what was going on with ELF at that time. I bet you wiil find some pretty interesting stuff that might lead to part of what happened to us!!!

[puddlepirate]

Hi John

I'd thought you'd left us!! ...Good to see you again.
Not a problem. I've done a bit of stuff already as a result of your previous post and if you take a look at one of my recent posts, you should find some stuff. That said I have a particular line of enquiry that I want to pursue.

[John Burroughs]

Thanks. Here is one more thing to look at, Schumann resonances and what effect ELF has on it. Also look up the Scientist that it was named after and what he did for germany durning WW2. There is a corelation between what radar and ELF can do to people and even the inner earth. And strange things have happened in other parts of the world where this ties in IE radar and ELF testing to include the carriben area!!

[AdrianF]

Scroll down to the last third of the page.

If you go through the whole page there are some additional observations from Georgina Bruni's book.


On the same page there is a Colonel Spring mentioned who was apparently involved at Rendlesham on the Nights in question.
Again being new I don't know whether this character has been mentioned on this site but the only one I can come up with is a USAF Colonel 'Woody' Spring. Ex Edwards Airforce Base, flying experimental Aircraft and subsequently a NASA Astronaut.

Hi Robert
A great post, as here is a piece of info that I had gone past on several occasions and not really registered.

Puddlepirate,

I've looked at Georgina's book and the person in question is named as Lt Col Richard C. Spring. Maybe one and the same as "Woody" Spring ( unfortunate name, sorry Woody if you are reading this ).

PS. JB and Silvertop, I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I'll look it up anyway.

Adrian

[AdrianF]

Silvertop,

Sorry my limited geology threw me off a little there. So are we suggesting that Orfordness, or the large antennae array, could have played a part in this? I did look at this a while back, but the fact again ( like Cobra Mist ) that it required huge hurdles to function, put it "officially " out of service.

Cheers
Adrian

[robert]

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/spring-sc.html

NAME: Sherwood C. (Woody) Spring (Colonel, USA, Ret.) NASA Astronaut (former)

This guy may or may not be the same Puddle?
Barbara mentions Colonel Richard C Spring and this is Colonel Sherwood C Spring. May be worth a check as to how many Colonel Springs there were around in late 1980.
''He then returned to the Army's Flight Test Facility at Edwards AFB to complete 4 years as an experimental test pilot.''
NASA EXPERIENCE: Spring was selected as an astronaut in May 1980.'' (the rest of his CV at the above link)



The following two guys were possibly attached to Bentwaters at the time. I don't know whether anyone can shed any light on them.

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6821
MAJOR GENERAL GLENN A. PROFITT II
Died April 17, 1995
January 1979 - August 1982, A-10 pilot and operations officer, 92nd Tactical Fighter Squadron, 81st Tactical Fighter Wing, and commander, 78th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 81st Tactical Fighter Wing, Royal Air Force Station Bentwaters, England


http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/biograp ... aphyid=122

General Victor E. Renuart, Jr.
Commander, U.S. Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command
May 1980 - June 1982, A-10 instructor pilot and flight commander, 92nd Tactical Fighter Squadron, 81st Tactical Fighter Wing, Royal Air Force Bentwaters, England


Also thanks for the info re the Dumping of munitions, Chemicals etc in the sea around the UK.

I think it depends whether Barbara meant the fishermen were told not to fish the waters between the dates of 25th and the 30th of December or not to fish for for a longer period of time.
If it's the former then it's a little bit more interesting.


Cheers
Robert

[robert]

Lt Col Richard C. Spring
http://www.airforcememorial.org/registr ... e=s&Nav=25

Found this on the above link.
Unfortunately it does not elaborate on any aspect of Colonel Spring other than to list him in the register. We do however now know that a Colonel Richard C Spring exists.
If this is a combat memorial then possibly this brave Gentleman died in combat after 1980.

Of course another possibility is that Barbara Butler was given wrong information regarding his Christian name and it was Sherwood C Spring rather than Richard C Spring.

Robert

[Observer]

I don't think the Cobra Mist radar system had anything to do with Submarine communication, it was purely and simply a over the horizon radar system that didn't work very well and i think puddlepirate will say the same. Sub comms was achieved in other ways too classified to put on this forum.

To operate any form of ELF especially in the 70's & 80's would require a huge ammount of visible kit that would not go unnoticed. There's also the contentious subject of affecting the public who lived in the area and we have no medical evidence to my knowledge that members of the local community were affected.

Also, if as our US friends have said that they were taken to an underground bunker for interrogation, i would have thought that would be the last place to take them [if it exists]? as it was supposed to be top secret and not for the eys of enlisted men. They would have been taken to some other building used for disciplinary and interview procedures. In the RAF, it would have been the guard room or station Police HQ.

Obs

[robert]

http://www.markpurdey.com/pdf/metal_mic ... al_tse.pdf

Page 13
Villages north 1975 s CJD cluster Orfordness nuclear / LF military jet of Woodbridge, Suffolk. conventional bomb factories. Bomber airbase and crash landing in Parham village flightpath Metal microcrystal pollutants


Puddle. Re your find as above.
It seems to be a correlation of CJD clusters regarding pollution by Military/Toxic dumping as you say. The Above is specifically about area in and around Rendlesham.
Also Giving the Location.,Date.,TSE type Munitions connection.,Sonic Source.

A very interesting find as you suggest.

Also a little bit more information on the local fishermen as below. Robert

http://beyond-the-illusion.com/files/Ne ... isited.txt
Nick Redfern relates that a huge rectangular UFO was seen by a group of
fishermen to emerge from the water off the coast at Orford Ness.



http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case279.htm
Source: Jenny Randles.
The area surrounding the forest has long been a hotbed of UFO activity, with fishermen reporting strange blisters on their skins and the sightings of green fireballs emerging from the North Sea around the Ness.



http://www.waterufo.net/1980Present/198 ... lText1.htm
10-15-1983

''In October 1983 we were swamped by sightings of mysterious green lights darting above the forest. These eerie glows were so common that the locals treated them as part of the environment. Some blamed Bawdsey. Typical was the sighting of three fishermen by the coast at Sizewell, a small village just north of Orford Ness and close by where Gordon Levett first encountered the UFO in 1980 (an object he saw glowing with a faint green phosphorescence, as you may recall). The three fishermen observed a large ball formed out of greenish and yellowish masses that appeared in the sky above them on the evening of 7 October. It then grew very bright and faded away. One of these men had a second encounter at 05.30 on 15 October when a green blob of light appeared in the sky and fell slowly towards the surface of the sea--plunging into the waves and disappearing beneath the surface, still glowing.

Such observations continued into November 1983, when the crew of a fishing boat reported encountering an almost identical "green fireball" off the coast by Felixstowe. It behaved entirely unlike a meteorite.''

[Observer]

I think puddle has dug up some interesting info re CJD and pollutants. Also the scores of sitings by locals over the years does lead you to think that they and the RFI are all related in some way.
I am though rather surprised that if they are as real and as spectacular as reported, main stream science is not camped out looking for them.

Let us not forget that Jenny Randles has changed her mind since writing Sky Crash and now says that nothing of significance happened at Rendlesham.

Lastly, as much as i find Nick Redfern's comments interesting to listen to he does operate on the fringes of fantasy.
Here's one last conspiricy theory for you all to ponder on. It was put to me by a local aviation expert who has no interest in UFO's or any other funny business that the reason the USAF pulled out of the twin bases was not defence cuts but an electronic problem in the area that was messing up comms and nav aids.
They could not elliminate it or find its source even with British help so the easy option was to move out.

Fingers were pointed at the Ness and RAF Bawdsey at the time but was never proved.
They were though never completely exonerated. This aviation chap to this day thinks that British experiments in the area was to blame but he has one foot in the Russian camp just in case he's wrong.
Some times it pays to listen to experts who are not UFO believers.
Obs

[robert]

Just an additional Note from Puddle's find.,
re Toxicity/Munitions correlation from the Purdey / PDF Link.


Interestingly, Winston Churchill had ordered
the mass manufacture and stockpiling of considerable
tonnages of chemical weapons that were to
be used as a last resort to defeat the Germans
[56] if the need had arisen. Fortunately, they
were never used. These weapons were manufactured
at Queniborough, Randle and Rock Savage
in Cheshire, Springfields in Lancashire and dispersed
to munition stores (usually sited in woodland)
close to airbases all along the east coast
of the UK from Lossiemouth to Kent [56], as well
as in North Wales.

Robert

[AdrianF]

As the RFI famously hit the headlines in the News Of The World in early October, it's probably best to take an increase in unusual sightings around this time with a pinch of salt. I'm not suggesting there is nothing to them, but I do find this a bit coincidental.

Cheers
Adrian

[Observer]

That goes for most incidents round he world. Once sightings like Rendlesham or Roswell are published in news papers and/or books or documentaries are broadcast there is a huge increase in alleged sightings often in the same areas by the public. This is why many non believers laugh at us.

Most competent psychologists will be able to explain this simple phenomena. We tend to ignore this side of the UFO scene but it has very valid explanations. To a point i think the RFI carries the same legacy.
Obs

[Andy]

What does people think of the latest incidents reported in the Wiltshire area? I've hear some say it was Chinese Lanterns? but reading some of the reports of witnesses and the 'zig-zagging' movements, i really don't think these were Chinese lanterns? What do others think?

[IanR]

What does people think of the latest incidents reported in the Wiltshire area? I've hear some say it was Chinese Lanterns? but reading some of the reports of witnesses and the 'zig-zagging' movements, i really don't think these were Chinese lanterns? What do others think?

Which sighting do you mean? There was film from near Bromsgrove which looked exactly like the Archway Chinese lanterns reported and filed early last year. Can you continue this thread in "UFO news from the UK", please?

Ian