WHERES JB GONE??

[redsocks]

With all this debunking talk JB hasnt once bothered coming on here defending he's beliefs.Why?? is the net closing in??

Redsocks

[redsocks]

I think personally he was more than happy to see us chasing our tales,really I can say in all honesty he's contribution to the forum was zero.He Seemed to love the situation he was in until people started asking reasonable probing questions.

Redsocks

[John Burroughs]

First of all let me start by saying Im honored that one you now feel you are talking to the real John Burroughs and that you would take the time to ask what happened to me it means so much. Im also glad that you have figured out what happened and that your even considering going to the press with it that must have been what caused the eathquake in the UK yesterday. I find it interesting that you joined in 8 Dec of 2007 and you have figured it all out and that it is a hoax. I also find it very interesting that when you asked me to come over you told me in a PM that your group felt it was a plasma unit from a B-2 bomber that fell into the woods while the B-2 was over in England being tested on British radar. What have I done or said to change your mind on that one. All you have done is attack me first by saying you felt I was not the real John Burroughs and now by saying I have been stringing you along and that I have done a terrible job of covering up a hoax. You asked me why I would talk to Ian about his Lighthouse therory because all he wants to do is make me look bad but all you have done is try to attack everthing I have said. On your tough questions that have me running for cover. My Hypnosis is personal and is non of your buisness!! What gives you the right to demand that I talk about it. I have not tried to lead anybody on about it and if I ever choose to talk about it that is my choice not yours but I doubt I will ever openly talk about it As Deep purple said allot of people feel it is unreliable and open to suggestion. As far as Halt being in charge da he is the hightest ranking person to admit he was involved and who would not go to him first to get the story and of cource da he has the finial say in how things go if they want him to be involved. Penniston from the begining stated he felt it was a craft I was farther away from it and did not feel it was a craft for sure. The lights around it were very bright and if you look at my statement I drew what the lights looked like. I cannot speak for why Jim sasw what he saw. I have been open about what I feel could have happened just like everybody else has and that is my right and I don't owe you anything or do I need to put up with your crap. I was asked in a PM to cool it with you and I tried but the gloves have come off. What have you offered other than to keep taking swipes at me and your plasma therory that you wont even post out in the open I have not strung anybody along and as far as I can tell you are the only one who keeps saying they have been strung along. Keep on doing what your best at and that is attacking people all the best..........

[John Burroughs]

Admin
I will be glad to talk about the C-5 but after I do can you move all questions to a new post because I want to put this one to bed. It came in on Sunday night right after Sat night. On Monday night Tues night and Wed night I was posted on the East gate from 3-11. Gate was usually closed at 6 but left was opened because there was all kinds of activity going on in the woods. I beleive I posted this earlier. I was posted there because I was involved in the past incidents. I was ordered not to call anthing in on the radio just to use the phone. I also was ordered not to talk about anything I saw going on. So here goes the stringing along line again. But what I will say is 1 Halt talked about the C-5 for the first time when we were filming strange but true. He also stated that a team came in to check on codes in Hot row. As far as the gate goes there were helicopters all over the place and they were flying around with search lights over the forrest there were also vehicles going into the woods that I can say. As far as a beame of light going into hot row there was a Tsgt on duty that night not sure if he was the Hot row supervisor or the tower operrator he did say he could see certain things to include lights beaming down at us over at woodbridge.

[puddlepirate]

Just for info...read up on Exercise Able Archer 83. It's not directly related to Rendlesham but provides some very useful background info into the state of tension that existed between the Soviets and us in the early 80's.

States of tension lead to all manner of things. We were going to the wire in Dec 1980....and it wasn't much different by Nov 83. I happen to know a very, very funny story from AA 83 involving a phonecall from the Pentagon and a wing commander who went to lunch. It cannot be told on here for obvious reasons but if anyone doubts how easily things can go wrong, big time then rest assured they can and they do!

[redsocks]

First of all let me start by saying Im honored that one you now feel you are talking to the real John Burroughs and that you would take the time to ask what happened to me it means so much. Im also glad that you have figured out what happened and that your even considering going to the press with it that must have been what caused the eathquake in the UK yesterday. I find it interesting that you joined in 8 Dec of 2007 and you have figured it all out and that it is a hoax. I also find it very interesting that when you asked me to come over you told me in a PM that your group felt it was a plasma unit from a B-2 bomber that fell into the woods while the B-2 was over in England being tested on British radar. What have I done or said to change your mind on that one. All you have done is attack me first by saying you felt I was not the real John Burroughs and now by saying I have been stringing you along and that I have done a terrible job of covering up a hoax. You asked me why I would talk to Ian about his Lighthouse therory because all he wants to do is make me look bad but all you have done is try to attack everthing I have said. On your tough questions that have me running for cover. My Hypnosis is personal and is non of your buisness!! What gives you the right to demand that I talk about it. I have not tried to lead anybody on about it and if I ever choose to talk about it that is my choice not yours but I doubt I will ever openly talk about it As Deep purple said allot of people feel it is unreliable and open to suggestion. As far as Halt being in charge da he is the hightest ranking person to admit he was involved and who would not go to him first to get the story and of cource da he has the finial say in how things go if they want him to be involved. Penniston from the begining stated he felt it was a craft I was farther away from it and did not feel it was a craft for sure. The lights around it were very bright and if you look at my statement I drew what the lights looked like. I cannot speak for why Jim sasw what he saw. I have been open about what I feel could have happened just like everybody else has and that is my right and I don't owe you anything or do I need to put up with your crap. I was asked in a PM to cool it with you and I tried but the gloves have come off. What have you offered other than to keep taking swipes at me and your plasma therory that you wont even post out in the open I have not strung anybody along and as far as I can tell you are the only one who keeps saying they have been strung along. Keep on doing what your best at and that is attacking people all the best..........

Yawn Yawn Yawn if you guys want to go on and let this guy string you on further well bigger fools you but its up to you to work that out,cant understand why are you giving him the oppertunity to wind you up look at this he has no facts to back up he's story whatsoever!.as this forum is going nowhere and JB I feel is doing he's usual thing(see very recent posts) I am out of here.Enoughs enough but one thing I will say.Pretty soon JB and the other airmen are going to look pretty bloody stupid and thats a fact.

Redsocks

[Observer]

John

There is frustration over here at the lack of progress and even with you on board we have not really got any further.
Puddlpirate suggests it now could have been cruise missile mobile launcher that was placed in the forest and the C-5 was some thing to do with that. What are your thoughts on that? It suggests that all those in the forest are not telling us the whole story. Notice i am not calling them liars.

We have suggested many theories to you and some you have said forget, which means you could know more abut this mystery than we know.

At the moment any thing is possible, even Lord Lucan living in Bolivia is possible. In our recent poll, 75% of those who voted say some thing significant happened in the forest.

I have noticed with some members that one minute they believe you are JB and in other posts they don't. I'm not one of those people.

John, you need to assure the non believers one more time you are JB.

Obs

[puddlepirate]

A caveat on the cruise missile theory. It is a based on an analysis of the situation that prevailed in Europe at that time and known facts relating to that situation that might have led the US to place cruise missiles in the UK ahead of their deployment to the designated storage areas at Greenham Common and Molesworth. A very quick summary

1. Soviet, east German and Czech armoured divisions moved up to the Polish border in late 1980
2. In response, a major BAOR (British Army on the Rhine) exercise was extended. Troops were warned they were moving from exercise to hot war.
3. A10's leave for forward bases in Germany
4. STANAVFORLANT retained in European waters (5 ships: incl 1 x US)
5. Pres Carter twice warns Soviets not to invade Poland
6. Locating cruise in the UK was authorised by Francis Pym in June 1980
7. Cruise was to be stored at Greenham Common and Molesworth but fired from mobile launchers moved to launch sites
8. A cruise squadron comprises 2 x launch vehicles and 69 personnel. The squadron will fit into a C-5. The total weight is 160,000lbs - just under the total payload weight of a C-5
9. The US embarks on a major psyops programme against the Soviets in Feb 81
10. The Soviets feared cruise because it was slow, flew a low and erratic course and tended to blend with background clutter so was very hard to pick up on radar. It's deployment eventually led to the SALT agreement
11. Bentwaters/Woodbridge were major front line bases, located on the east coast and closest to Poland. The proximity to those bases would provide air cover for any incoming attack on the missile launchers and the forest would provide excellent cover for the vehicles whilst they were in situ
12. The C-5 is the USAF's heaviest lift aircraft. It arrived at Bentwaters on the Monday immediately after the events, was parked in an excluded area and came with its own security personnel. Activity (apparently) increased markedly after its arrival.
13. As permission had been granted in June and because of the increase in military tension in eastern Europe by Dec, plus the pysops programme in Feb 81, it would make sense for the US to choose to deploy cruise as soon as possible, ahead of the completion of the storage bunkers. Cruise can be transported by the C-5 - deployed then withdrawn.

The above is based on facts. The following is possible but not verified:

14. The events in the forest were possibly a precursor to the temporary location of the cruise launchers.
15. Halt has since mentioned that personnel were in the forest to create multiple landing sites. This has not been corroborated but could landing = clearings for positioning the launchers.

[Deep Purple]

I do think JB should be treated with respect and dignity, as should all members of the forum. This is not a witch hunt but rather an attempt to find out what ever did or did not happen.
The way ahead is by talking and not throwing our toys out the pram.
That way perhaps the beam from the lighthouse of knowledge will finally illuminate what really happened. Sorry IanR couldn't resist no offence meant

[Observer]

I totally agree with you, and we should also respect what evidence JB has given us. Which has not always been the case with some members.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Observer I will try and answer your question. First being called a liar is what i am use to ever since this incident happened. One of the biggest things was the dates. For years everybody went off of Halts memo for the dates. I always stated it started on the 26th. Even on this last special they dont have it right. Halts incident started on the night of the 27th. This in one of the facts that makes me look like a liar. Also that fact that some people state they were questoned and I was not. That my statement was hand written and others were typed I have know Idea what went on behind the scenes with who ever ran the show. I know Halt is a master on throwing out things that will stirr the pot. Last 2 things SP creating false sights and then said I think they would have done that. All he might have been doing is trying to take the heat off of the rabbit therory. Also he talked abot Black programs and worked that in a way that could cause a problem. I know the cruise missle's would have had tight security on them and the base would have know and that was never brought to our attention. As far as the C-5 goes lets talk in general terms. Over the years there has been activity involving UFO were there are hot rows. After the fact the hot row is looked at very carefully and what happened around it. Now was that because another country was up to somthing I don't know? I understandyour frustration I have been living it for 27 years. All of the therorys that are posted on this site are just that and who am I to say there wrong. There could be several things that were happening which makes anything possible. I do know they really like messing up the dates and that makes it hard to get documents. They also like to get people to argue about little details and not focus on the big picture. It has taken 27 years for most people to agree it was more than just the light house. One more interesting thing General Williams in the new out of the Blue stated on Question that was asked by me on a Tape recorder James Foxs had about Halts memo leaving the base with out his permission. His reply was he was backed doored and never saw it. He then stated he would have wanted to have seen it because there were things on it that we could not defend. This even after the MOD stated General Gabierl came down to the Base and collected all of the evidence and another Captin said he handed a tape reel to him to fly over to Germaney which I beleive was the radio tranmissions. You want to know what I beleive I feel everybody got caught with their pants down at the time. Somthing happened nobody knew for sure IE regular military what it was. You had Hot row people running around in another people forrest even on the third night nobody from Britian was there why not? And peolpe saying beames of lights were shineing down into Hot row and nothing was done that in its self was a major breach in security procedures . You had the Wing Commander saying he new very little about it was not involved in it as it was going on and the memo was backed doored on him. He won't even talk to Halt a few years ago Georgina Bruni had Penniston and Halt do a interview in the states with her. First part was with them second part they got rid of Halt and Williams came on. Gerorgina stated to me Williams would have nothing to do with Halt. Have Admin PM me and I will let him give me a call and he can decide if it is me. It is alot eaiser for me to talk than type. Sorry i can't break this open for you it will take allot of on the ground investigation talking to the locals which nobody has done looking at the one site that is still active and a bunch of scientist that died working at And the right questions being asked on a paper trail with the right dates. I saw somthing both nights that was not the Light House sorry Ian but it was not and to this day sorry again everybody if you feel I am leading you on I can't tell you what it was.

[Deep Purple]

Thanks JB for your post, I think it highlights well the whole confusion over the event. It also indicates to me further that the whole thing was not a hoax. It does not help when people use the term " Liar" against a witness as this is emotive and tends to shut the witness down. Also different witnesses will interprit events quite differently.
I do understand your frustration at being witness to an unexplainable event and attacked for it. The evidence from a number of angles is something weird happended whether manmade or not.
As an aside a couple of years ago some TV makes made a fake UFO which was a huge powered helium ballon shaped like a metallic disc and flew it past a rural pub. Reports flooded in of the UFO sighting ( which was genuine) and were rubbished by the media as drunken revelers seeing something---- it just goes to show you can see something and be totally disbelleived / put down

[Observer]

I think i along with deep purple appreciate you honesty and as you say its damn difficult trying to recall events from so long ago.
You are right talking is easier than writing.

If its any use to you, an ARRS pal said to me years ago that if i was told what it was i wouldn't believe it because it was so simple and way out side the box. Caught with your pants down is a good description.

Obs

[Deep Purple]

Perhaps we should look at this again from a Way outside the box perspective! and have an open simple but way outside the box look at the event. But your friends advice could be disinformation perhaps?
Simple would suggest to me a non ET cause, non secret aircraft involvement, no top secret involvement?
How would the ARRS know what really happened and are not themselves the victims of event?

[IanR]

That way perhaps the beam from the lighthouse of knowledge will finally illuminate what really happened. Sorry IanR couldn't resist :D no offence meant :D

No problem. It made me laugh.

Scrolling down to what Observer says in a subsequent post: "an ARRS pal said to me years ago that if i was told what it was i wouldn't believe it because it was so simple".
His friend was right! He has been told, it is that simple and, no, he doesn't believe it.

Ian

[Observer]

Deep purple and Ian

My pal from the ARRS died 10 years ago when i had no interest in this incident. He mentioned it during a Barbi once at his B/W married quarters to my wife and was just listening. I have no reason to not believe him or think he was giving me disinformation as it was not then topical.
He said with a broad grin that he knew what 'went down' but he valued his stripes too much to say more. His words were, "If i told you what happened you wouldn't believe me". and the conversation finished.

No Ian you can wipe the light house grin off your face because my pals wife knew as well and because of the incident she wanted to go home to the states. She hated the place after the incident. My pal was a crew chief on one of the HH-53's in fact it was a medivac ship and he said the ARRS were involved but only after the event, that he did say.
Another throw away comment by him was that the ARRS were always cleaning up after other people and FOD should be only applied to runways and taxi ways not off base.
Does this help?

Obs