What cover up

[Observer]

Have you ever considered that there actually isn't any cover up on the RFI because there is nothing to cover up. Most if not all of the cover up conspiracy has been perpetrated by us not the authorities.

Obs

[Wolf]

At the end of the day UFO's exist. Remember all it means is that the observer saw a Flying Object that they could not Identify. Its as simple as that.

The whole dicussion, or dare I say it science (you've got an ology!), is full of unqualified experts and people who because they have watched the X-files are an expert (ex - used to be, sp'u'rt - drip under pressure). That and the viewpoint that theres a light in the sky its aliens, you prove that it wasn't, generally creates so much white noise around any incident, then the chances of getting to the truth are even further hampered.

Then don't forget UFO - Unlimited Financial Opportunity. The whole UFO/alien has been a lucrative one for some people over the years (I know some people have made nothing, and have wanted nothing, simply trying to find an explaination to what they saw/experienced).

If you believe all that you hear Aliens have the ability to abduct and implant humans, steal and mutilate our cattle, block our radar, out run our fighters, block their weapons systems etc. If them there aliens are so damn clever how come they crash so much.

Knowing some of the people who were involved/on base at the time all that can definately be said is that there were 'strange things afoot at the circle K'. Now that may mean strange, as in outside the range of their normal operational duties and which involved increased radio traffic at odd times during shifts, unscheduled over time etc.

Invading craft from the planet Zarg, I doubt it, but it would be vain of me or of anyone to suggest that we ar the only intelligent? life forms in the whole universe. And if there are more dimensions than we experience then yes this could explain a few things.

I'm off to my local hardware store to by a piece of 4 by 2 by 10 by 8 by 9 by 60 to finish off the shed........

V/R

Wolf

[Observer]

Good reply, that's exactly what i wanted to get people talking again.

I suspect though that this forum has dried up a tad because we have not really got very far and in my opinion we aint going to get any further. The only scenario now is for some one to give us some new and significant information that can drive the enquiry forward out of stagnation, but don't hold your breath.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

The reason why it has dried up is most people have a opinion on what they think happened. The fact of the matter is the people involved don't know what it was! And unless the people with there opinions can get pass them and take a look outside the box it won't move forword. In about 2 and a half weeks Linda Howe will be putting forth some very interesting information about Bentwaters. It has to do with what has come out under Hypnois both from Jim and I. Right away and I'm directing this at you Observer people will say that 1 Hypnois can't be trusted and you can use channeling things can be planted and on and on. Also its funney that every time someone uses the word ailien people go nuts about little green men or grays or so on. Like Wolf stated I find it hard to beleive that were the only ones out there but in this case beleive it or not it does not come out that we were visted from someone else. What came out was it was us in Engery form comming back from the furture trying to save themselves from what we have some how done. What Jim and I encountered was what they used to get here. They did have problems and were trying to fix the problem with what they used to get here. They are leaving or downloading information into people so as they come back over the years they can retrive what they need to make correction. They can only come back in time and they have to go back as far as they can to try and do the best they can not to screw up the time line. They plant the information they find out so when the next group comes back they can retrive what they need with as little contact as possible. We are reaching a point in our history in the next 2-4 years that will shape the furture and from what happened before it did not turn out well. The symbols Jim drew and what is being left IE certain crop circles hold the key and if you can figure them out you will understand what is happening. This is some of what has come out Observer and it realy is hard to deal with or understand. I'm sure you and others will tear everthing I have just said apart so have fun. If in fact out Government planted all of this in us why. Jim and I are losing are memory on what happened were having more and more trouble remembering what happened. Also somthing is blocking certain questions from being recovered and talked about. What I have just wriiten is only a very small part of what came out. I'm going to have someone put some of what came out on the forum from the transscripts soon. Linda will also being talking about it in Las Vegas. Now is this what I'm saying happened for sure no this is just some of what has come out from mine and Jims hypnois. This I repeat is not what Jim and I remember happening or are stating for the record we feel has happened to us. I'm sure this will give you all somthing to talk about!! John

[Observer]

John
Its nice to see you back. It is exactly my point that we need new and fresh information so that we can start to move forward again. As for your ideas of people from the future or from a different dimension, i am not clever enough to make any sensible answer or comment. I do have an open mind to any thing, but as a mere human i as any scientist would demand, lets see the evidence.

If what you say is true, then why isn't main stream science looking at it because they are not.

Just on another point. Rendlesham Forest during the days between the nights in question was absolutely normal, there were no search parties or road blocks or cordoned off areas or any thing, i know because my close friend walked his dog there as others did on those days and it was when he found a USAF torch fitted with a red filter on one of the logging tracks, yet come night fall it all kicks off again. That to me is rather odd to say the least, an absolutely normal forest by day and a light show at night and only during the Christmas holidays!

I remain open minded.

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Observer
You can't move forword if you won't listen to what people are trying to say are open to what there trying to tell you and have a open mind to what comes out. You made a statement that main stream science is not looking into it! What proof do you have there not? Are they going to come out and say there looking at people from the furture comming back I think not! But they are looking at the possibility of time travel and they are breaking down what goes on inside the Brain and what causes it! Is there other dimension not sure but I would bet there taking a look at that. You say you want proof well Jim and my Hypnois shows that somthing very strange happened to us and I beleive there is plently of evidence that backs that up.

[Observer]

John
None of us doubt your word and testimony over the RFI, but if as you say science may be looking at it then why is it not all over the worlds TV's and media because no matter how secret it is, some body opens their mouth eventually. Humans cannot resist letting out secrets [usually for money] no matter how important.

I am listening to you and i hear what you say but it takes a lot of imagination to take this on board.
You obviously think i am a sceptic [ there are a lot more hardened sceptics than me such as the light house author ] which is a very natural human reaction, but i will wait for more evidence before i start to form conclusions. I think that is only fare.
You seem to have changed track as well because you were very interested in electro beam weapons and black projects at one time now you are more interested in the 'people from the future' theory, what changed?

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Observer
I have not changed tracks at all! I'm still working on that end. What I'm talking about first came out in 1988. Penniston Hypnois was done later on. I was asked this summer if I would do some follow up and I agreed. I will be allowing what came out in 88 and the recent session to be presented in Las Vegas as what it is what came out under Hypnois. As far as your statement I'm more interested in people from the furture therory now than before I have always been interested in that therory who would not be. The fact that Jim and I both have that come out means somthing was put there the question is by who and why!

[Observer]

John

We will all be interested in what came out, how long before we hear the results.

On older interviews with Jim Penniston and others, they all said they did not want to talk about their hypnosis regression sessions.
We are also interested in why Halt said he knew a lot more but was keeping quiet for now as its his future insurance, what the heck does that mean?
Are you suggesting that what was put in your head was from the encounter in the woods, some sort of thought process that was transferred to you?

Obs

[John Burroughs]

Who would feel confortable talking about it. One of the things Bustiza was upset about was that he was catholic and it changed the way he and others would view religion. Somthing has come out from both Jim and mine Hypnois that we can't remember happening to us. How else did it get there Observer. As far as when, some will come out in Vegas and more will come out when the person who I will have post it feels better he is under the weather and I will be talking to him on Thur night.

[puddlepirate]

It is impossible to research the hypothetical. That said, there are many stories and images which suggest strange craft have visited Earth. Some of these stories date from thousands of years ago, e.g. the Bible and Ezekiel (you can open a Bible and read it for yourself or go here: http://www.bibleufo.com/zezekiel.htm). Then of course there is 'Chariot of the Gods: was God an astronaut?'; Von Daniken, E; ISBN-10: 0808511122 / ISBN-13: 978-0808511120). There are also several ancient paintings which show strange aircraft. Some can be found here: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... n%26sa%3DN. There is a book of such artwork: http://www.ufoartwork.com/bookproject.html. Interestingly, many such paintings date from the 15th cent. and at least one ("The Annunciation" by Carlo Crivelli) hangs in the National Gallery, London. The painting depicts a disk shaped UFO-type object throwing down a beam of light down onto Mary's head. Thus, these are not paintings knocked up in someone's backyard but respected works of art. Of course, the fact that UFOs appear in old paintings is not evidence of alien beings or alien craft but it is odd to say the least.

Then there are the extraordinarily intricate crop circle designs. Many such circles appear in England and are claimed to have been created by a couple of guys with wooden planks tied to bits of string. But given the complexity and apparent accuracy of these intricate designs and that in England in midsummer there are only a few hours of darkness, probably no more than five at the most, then it stretches belief that these circles could have been created by a couple of blokes creeping about fields between 11pm and 4am after a couple of pints in the local pub.....

However, to get back to basics. Research has to be built on hard fact and uncovering evidence, not any number of constantly changing hypotheses. Unfortunately, the forum appears to have shifted from being a focal point of serious research to a debating society, discussing endless 'what if' type scenarios centred on unknown weapons technologies, time travel and so forth.

Worthy though such discussions might be, they overlook the fact that a senior USAF officer sent a memo to the MoD and the US DoD, in response to an FoI request, instead of simply stating that 'we do not hold any information relating to that event' took the peculiar step of forwarding the enquiry the MoD in the UK. A most unusual response to an FoI request given that, allegedly, only MoD were aware of the existence of the Halt memo.

To me at least, it is not what happened in the forest that is odd, it is what happened afterwards and as Observer has pointed out, what did not happen during the daylight hours. As Sherlock Holmes once remarked - but the dog did not bark in the night time! Apparently, despite the fenzy of activity in the forest at night, nothing appears to have been going on in the forest during daylight hours and that has to be strange to say the least. Also, one would have thought that on seeing the lights in the forest and deploying a number of personnel off base to investigate, both bases would immediately have gone to full alert. But they did not. That is also very strange.

[Vortex]

Hi John/Obs,

I've been sitting in the background keeping an eye on this forum (earning my status of 'forum lurker'!) over the last couple of months and I have not felt truly motivated to post a response until now. John - I'm very interested in the 'time travel' theory that you raised in your previous post (as a result of your hypnosis). This is a theory that I've strongly considered as a contender for the cause of the RFI in the past myself. There is no harm debating man-made theories of the RFI (indeed, they might well still be proved correct), but we must definitely keep an open mind - just because a theory may seem outlandish or beyond the realms of our regular perception of reality does NOT mean that they are any less valid.

I've made my position quite clear in the past - I feel that the RFI did involve an encounter with something beyond the realms of regular experience. I have no evidence for this (and I agree with you Obs, hard evidence is the ultimate goal!), but for what it's worth, I have a strong 'gut-feeling'. I'm totally prepared to be proved wrong about this, but I sincerely believe that in order to solve this mystery, we must suspend disbelief and give all theories equal treatment. We live on one planet in a vast (and perhaps not particularly well-understood) universe. It is not far-fetched to conceive that at some point in our future, we could develop the technology to travel through time. The RFI might be just one example of the result of this technology. It might be hard to accept this, but that doesn't mean it is not a possibility. I feel that the RFI involved something very serious – this theory might well fit the bill…

John - many thanks for your postings. I for one will be extremely interested to read the transcripts that you speak of.

All the best,

Vortex

[AdrianF]

John,

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your hypnosis sessions, though I'm equally cautious about drawing any conclusions from this. I'd be interested to know what your motivation was for undergoing this a second time, if that is something you are willing to talk about?
If I understand what you're saying correctly, then you don't necessarily believe that you encountered beings from the future, but more that you're just not sure why you have these trace memories of the events?

Mainstream science seems to have been pretty obsessed with the ideas of time travel and parallel universes for some time now!

Cheers

Adrian

[Observer]

If I'm correct, John has always said he only saw lights.
I would like to see evidence of any research main stream science is doing on this subject.
There is an Asian scientist who is working on time travel in the US and he is the fore most authority on it in the world. How far has he got, a little lab test involving strobe lighting and that's it so far. Most of his work is theorem on paper.
Yes, scientists make comment on it even Prof Steven Hawkins has commented on it, in fact one of his statements was quite profound when he was asked about the possibility of an alien visitation and parallel universes Etc. He simply said, "Its out side the boundaries of the human remit".
None of these scientists are on multi million Dollar/Euros budgets to research the subject.
If they are having a look then its more than likely in their spare time as a hobby.
I do however look forward to any new information that John can give us.
Yes lets debate or better still research the possibility of time travellers. Please tell me where to start.

Obs

[Observer]

Vortex,

Stop lurking and join in, you obviously have some interesting view points concerning the RFI.
I have a totally open mind to this alleged incident even though some people think i don't.
It is a natural and sensible idea to try to eliminate all mane made scenarios first before you move on to other more fanciful theories.

Have you considered what would have happened if the Halt memo had never come to light? Nothing!
The publishing of Halts memo set alarm bells ringing, and you can put your own interpretation on that.
Theories on time travel and parallel universes is currently in the realms if science fiction, i don't for one minute suggest that it might not be possible one day, but currently it is hypothetical and as puddle pointed out, just how do you conduct an investigation on a hypothetical theory.

Obs

[puddlepirate]

Obs wrote:

Have you considered what would have happened if the Halt memo had never come to light? Nothing!
The publishing of Halts memo set alarm bells ringing, and you can put your own interpretation on that.

That is the most peculiar thing of all. If, on receipt of the FoI request, the DoD had simply replied that they did not hold any information on the event (an apparently truthful reply) the story would have died there and then. Instead they chose to forward the request to the UK MoD. Why would they do that? Although the incident occured on UK soil, it was apparently dealt with by the USAF in isolation without the involvement of UK security services, either military or civilian. That being so, then why would the US DoD assume that the UK MoD held any info?

Apparently Halt's memo was sent to the RAF Liaison Officer only and nobody else. So for the DoD to forward the FoI request to the MoD is most odd - unless of course the DoD dictated the contents of the memo and to whom it should be sent and therefore were fully aware of its existence. If that is true, then why would they do that?

Conspiracy theory and pure conjecture suggests that perhaps the Halt memo was something created after the DoD received the FoI request, deliberately created to divert attention towards a UFO story once somebody became too inquisitive about the events of Dec 1980. The powers that be and their advisors knew a UFO story would create a hugely effective smokescreen and divert public attention away from what really happened. So to set the ball rolling they issued just enough info to whet the appetites of the curious...And the rest, as they say, is history.

[John Burroughs]

Puddle is right you cannot do reasearch on time travel because as far as I know we cannot accomplish that! That fact that were looking into being able to time travel and other dimmension states what? Christopher Columbus was told the world was flat and he would sail off the edge and we all know how that worked out. At the time it was outside the boundries of the Human remit!!! I have just touched ona little tiny piece of what came out and look at what has happened. One of the things that came out and Linda will talk about is Telepathic lights. It came out under my Hypnois session I was asked to explain what happened and as I met up with Halt he stated to me the lights had contact with us. To answer your Question Adrain Linda wanted to do a follow up on Bentwaters and new what had come out in 88 and I had decided to try and get some answer on what came out so I agreed to go under. And instead as usual answering those questions more strange stuff came out. I went under in 88 to answer if I jumped on to somthing which Halt had stated. Jim went under a few years later to help with his recurring nightmares and we both had it come out it was time travlers. I have spoken on the phone today with the person who is going to post some of what came out under my Hypnois in 88. He has the trascripts from the tape and is going to try and scan it. If not he will type it out. He probley has more research on Bentwaters than anybody else does and allot of its been recorded. He also will post somthing from Halts recording of the incident that nobody has caught yet and it just might turn some heads. Linda will being making her presention at a Las Vegas conferance over the 7-9th of Nov. He should have somthing posted by next week at the latest. The fact that Jim and I both had the same thing come out indepently says somthing very strange happened to us and some how was planted inside our sub consious by who and why is a vey important question. And was it put there to cover somthing up or was it somthing from the furture. I'm like you Puddlepirate and Observer I want to see proof. The only proof is Jim and I had some kind of strange encounter with some kind of engery force man made or somthing else. I have had to live with this for over 28 years and not been able to come up with a answer just more questions!

[puddlepirate]

Hi JB

The RFI is such a difficult thing to try and untangle that I doubt we ever will. When you guys were interviewed immediately after the incident, was each of you hypnotised and/or injected with a drug of some kind?

[John Burroughs]

None of that happened to me. Penniston Bustinza and Warren all stated one or all of what you asked happen to them. One of the more interesting things that came out of Jim's hypnois was the fact he stated there was a DS-8 agent in the room when he was brought in and injected and he did not know what DS-8 was or remember them being in the room. Halt in the SCI-FI interview stated that people were brought in and injected. Also in the CNN Piece MSgt Ball stated he beleived he saw somthing inside the Blue lights that could be some kind of life form...

[puddlepirate]

Thanks, JB. Interesting. DS-8 sounds familiar for some reason. Could the guys from DS-8 have been Brits by any chance? I know it is a long time ago now but did you hear any Brit accents, i.e. not necessarily English but non-American accents?